Zone1 Peace between Catholics and Protestants!

[The Sage of Main Street]

They disagreed. One reason for the Peasant's War was over all the mandatory tithing money going to aggrandizing the Church and not the poor.

Twelve Articles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is the personal residence of a Bishop in Wurzburg. A personal residence. Remember that vow of poverty or such?

Würzburg Residence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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Sales Pitch for Je$u$

Pray
Then pay
That's the way
To make my day

 

[Meriweather]

Remember most Protestant movements were not against God's teachings, but about the massive corruption within the Catholic Church itself.

Perhaps give an example of "massive corruption within the Catholic Church" that extended to all, down to the poor. Corruption of rich members of the Church does not equate to corruption of the Church (the entire assembly). Some said, "I see this corruption, therefore, I'll leave/divide the Church" while many others--probably more were saying, "I see this corruption and I will stay and correct it." Recall Jesus said that not even the corrupt will prevail against the Church. That being the case, why leave the Church/assembly Jesus built? The other part is why abandon the traditions and sacraments that have been a part of the Church since Jesus was here on earth?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They disagreed. One reason for the Peasant's War was over all the mandatory tithing money going to aggrandizing the Church and not the poor.

Twelve Articles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is the personal residence of a Bishop in Wurzburg. A personal residence. Remember that vow of poverty or such?

Würzburg Residence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 1146609
View attachment 1146607

Did the Bishop own all of those cars in the parking lot?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Perhaps give an example of "massive corruption within the Catholic Church" that extended to all, down to the poor. Corruption of rich members of the Church does not equate to corruption of the Church (the entire assembly). Some said, "I see this corruption, therefore, I'll leave/divide the Church" while many others--probably more were saying, "I see this corruption and I will stay and correct it." Recall Jesus said that not even the corrupt will prevail against the Church. That being the case, why leave the Church/assembly Jesus built? The other part is why abandon the traditions and sacraments that have been a part of the Church since Jesus was here on earth?

Spoken like a true Catholic apologist, eh?

 

[Meriweather]

Spoken like a true Catholic apologist, eh?

More like I'm simply curious.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

More like I'm simply curious.

Curious, or bi-curious?

 

[Meriweather]

Curious, or bi-curious?

That's sick. Are you alright?

 

[JoeB131]

Perhaps give an example of "massive corruption within the Catholic Church" that extended to all, down to the poor. Corruption of rich members of the Church does not equate to corruption of the Church (the entire assembly). Some said, "I see this corruption, therefore, I'll leave/divide the Church" while many others--probably more were saying, "I see this corruption and I will stay and correct it." Recall Jesus said that not even the corrupt will prevail against the Church. That being the case, why leave the Church/assembly Jesus built? The other part is why abandon the traditions and sacraments that have been a part of the Church since Jesus was here on earth?

You mean other than selling indulgences?

Simony?

Now, yeah, the poor didn't care this much about that as they lived and were exploited on Church lands. In fact, the poor even suffered after the Dissolution of the Monasteries in England.

 

[ding]

Spoken like a true Catholic apologist, eh?

You will have more success in life if you are curious rather than judgmental.

 

[ding]

You mean other than selling indulgences?

Simony?

Now, yeah, the poor didn't care this much about that as they lived and were exploited on Church lands. In fact, the poor even suffered after the Dissolution of the Monasteries in England.

I prefer seeing the whole picture rather than what I wish to see.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That's sick. Are you alright?

I should be asking you!

 

[Blaster]

All Protestant religions broke away from the Catholic religion.

 

[Meriweather]

You mean other than selling indulgences?

Simony?

Now, yeah, the poor didn't care this much about that as they lived and were exploited on Church lands. In fact, the poor even suffered after the Dissolution of the Monasteries in England.

Let's start with this written statement: “Let him who speaks against the truth concerning papal indulgences be anathema and accursed.”

It was written by Martin Luther in his 95 theses. Read 2 Corinthians. It can be said of it that it's about raising funds. We read that God loves a cheerful giver. The Bible also mentions that those who cast bread upon the waters receive more in return. Then, as you mention, there is simony.

Let's bring this forward to US elections. Can you give to a candidate for his campaign? Absolutely. It's considered a good thing. Can you give to a candidate to buy his vote? No. That's considered really awful. Should the bottom line be, No more campaign contributions!? Someone may be trying to buy a vote!

The same thing can be said about giving to the Church. Can you give for the good of the Church community. Yes. Can you give to buy something to benefit oneself? No. The Church can give indulgences; the Church may not sell indulgences. Where does the line blur?

Indulgences can open up the graces spoken of throughout the Bible, that one cannot give to God without the result being God pours out his gifts in return. On the other hand, one cannot buy anything from God--that's not how it works. Giving versus buying: Giving is good, whether indulgences or campaign contributions. Buying, bad, whether it is indulgences or buying votes through campaign contributions.

 

[Woodznutz]

who is a heretic?

Anyone who believes something about Christ that is not true.

Non-Catholics believe you can be saved outside His Church (Catholic), but that is heresy and was condemned as such by not just one Council in history. Extra ecclessium nulla salus

That is Latin for

Outside the Church there is no salvation

The true church is a spiritual organism, not a denomination, no matter how old or powerful.

 

[Woodznutz]

All Protestant religions broke away from the Catholic religion.

Some were formed after the Reformation as the true church came out of hiding from the persecution of the RCC. See Revelation 12.

 

[Zebra]

what is the true church

no use fighting over it

 

[JoeB131]

Let's start with this written statement: “Let him who speaks against the truth concerning papal indulgences be anathema and accursed.”

It was written by Martin Luther in his 95 theses. Read 2 Corinthians. It can be said of it that it's about raising funds. We read that God loves a cheerful giver. The Bible also mentions that those who cast bread upon the waters receive more in return. Then, as you mention, there is simony.

Let's bring this forward to US elections. Can you give to a candidate for his campaign? Absolutely. It's considered a good thing. Can you give to a candidate to buy his vote? No. That's considered really awful. Should the bottom line be, No more campaign contributions!? Someone may be trying to buy a vote!

The same thing can be said about giving to the Church. Can you give for the good of the Church community. Yes. Can you give to buy something to benefit oneself? No. The Church can give indulgences; the Church may not sell indulgences. Where does the line blur?

Indulgences can open up the graces spoken of throughout the Bible, that one cannot give to God without the result being God pours out his gifts in return. On the other hand, one cannot buy anything from God--that's not how it works. Giving versus buying: Giving is good, whether indulgences or campaign contributions. Buying, bad, whether it is indulgences or buying votes through campaign contributions.

I don't approve of campaign donations, either. Elon Musk spend a quarter billion dollars to put Trump back in the White House and we are all suffering for it.

Come on, the Church was shaking down rich people for indulgences for centuries... and then the Protestant Reformation came along, and their descendents decided to get that money back.

Good for them.

Sucked for all the people who died in the religious wars that followed, though.

 

[Woodznutz]

I don't approve of campaign donations, either. Elon Musk spend a quarter billion dollars to put Trump back in the White House and we are all suffering for it.

Come on, the Church was shaking down rich people for indulgences for centuries... and then the Protestant Reformation came along, and their descendents decided to get that money back.

Good for them.

Sucked for all the people who died in the religious wars that followed, though.

The Jews also received payments for indulgences back in Jesus' day (Corban).

 

[Meriweather]

I don't approve of campaign donations, either. Elon Musk spend a quarter billion dollars to put Trump back in the White House and we are all suffering for it.

Come on, the Church was shaking down rich people for indulgences for centuries... and then the Protestant Reformation came along, and their descendents decided to get that money back.

Good for them.

Sucked for all the people who died in the religious wars that followed, though.

Ask Michael Bloomberg how much money he spent in a four month period on his own 2020 Presidential campaign. (Over times as much.) Just pointing out there has to be more than money than a successful run for the presidency.

No, the Church does not "shake down rich people". No doubt, at that time, we can find a well-to-do person inside the Church who meets the definition of "shaking down" a rich person. Yet, what one person does is not 'Church practice'.

I'll return to the point of all of those leaving the Church that Christ built also abandoning some of the practices/traditions that Jesus himself began...as to those who worked inside the Church to correct the misconduct and corruption of the few. This was/is being accomplished without setting aside any of what Jesus taught and built.

 

[JoeB131]

Ask Michael Bloomberg how much money he spent in a four month period on his own 2020 Presidential campaign. (Over times as much.) Just pointing out there has to be more than money than a successful run for the presidency.

No, the Church does not "shake down rich people". No doubt, at that time, we can find a well-to-do person inside the Church who meets the definition of "shaking down" a rich person. Yet, what one person does is not 'Church practice'.

I'll return to the point of all of those leaving the Church that Christ built also abandoning some of the practices/traditions that Jesus himself began...as to those who worked inside the Church to correct the misconduct and corruption of the few. This was/is being accomplished without setting aside any of what Jesus taught and built.

Oh, come on, you go to any church today, and you can see who paid for each stained glass window. The Church has been a money-making scam since Peter struck down Ananias and Sapphira for not giving up all their money. (ACTS 5: 1-11) Wow, they wanted to keep some of their money for themselves and the Holy Spirit struck them down like a Gambino Hit Man.

(This is one of those bible stories that made me wonder about the whole thing. Guess who got a ruler over the knuckles for asking about it.)