Passover to Exodus, let the story be told

[watchingfromafar]

I supported Israel and wanted to do whatever I could to support the Israel cause.

To achieve this, I did extensive research of “Israel”, the person, and the Israeli push for statehood.
At the end of my research, I find myself on the other side of the coin. I no longer support Israel, which many here have noticed.

To get me back on Israel’s side, the leader of Israel, speaking for the Israeli citizens, must say in a public forum the following~~

We the Israeli people have committed atrocities in the past.
We, as a people will no longer commit such atrocities.
We accept guilt for those atrocities.
We welcome All, Christians, Muslims and all the rest into our country with open arms.
I say to the world community around us, please forgive us.

I ask God to forgive us as well.

Amen

-

 

[surada]

Moses wasn't a Jew. Can we start there for beginners

Biblically, the only significance to Moses is that he preached “do not kill”, "love your neighbor".,.,etc.,., and low and behold, Moses murders a person in the street in broad daylight.

The Pharaoh sought after him for his crime but before Moses could be arrested for the murder he and his followers fled. (great exodus)
correct me if I am wrong
-

Give me the chapter and verse where he murdered someone?

Murdered the Egyptian and hid the body.

Exodus 2:12 After looking this way and that and seeing no ...

Exodus 2:12 - Moses Kills an Egyptian

After looking this way and that and seeing no one, he struck down the Egyptian and hid his body in the sand.

www.biblehub.com

Moses looked around to see if anyone was watching, then he killed the Egyptian and hid his body in the sand. Douay-Rheims Bible And when he had looked about this way and that way, and saw no one there, he slew the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Moses wasn't a Jew. Can we start there for beginners

Biblically, the only significance to Moses is that he preached “do not kill”, "love your neighbor".,.,etc.,., and low and behold, Moses murders a person in the street in broad daylight.

The Pharaoh sought after him for his crime but before Moses could be arrested for the murder he and his followers fled. (great exodus)
correct me if I am wrong
-

Give me the chapter and verse where he murdered someone?

Murdered the Egyptian and hid the body.

Exodus 2:12 After looking this way and that and seeing no ...

Exodus 2:12 - Moses Kills an Egyptian

After looking this way and that and seeing no one, he struck down the Egyptian and hid his body in the sand.

www.biblehub.com

Moses looked around to see if anyone was watching, then he killed the Egyptian and hid his body in the sand. Douay-Rheims Bible And when he had looked about this way and that way, and saw no one there, he slew the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.

The Bible sez the murderer hath not eternal life.
Jesus was with Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration.
Don't sound like murder to me. Looks like something else

 

[surada]

Moses wasn't a Jew. Can we start there for beginners

Biblically, the only significance to Moses is that he preached “do not kill”, "love your neighbor".,.,etc.,., and low and behold, Moses murders a person in the street in broad daylight.

The Pharaoh sought after him for his crime but before Moses could be arrested for the murder he and his followers fled. (great exodus)
correct me if I am wrong
-

Give me the chapter and verse where he murdered someone?

Murdered the Egyptian and hid the body.

Exodus 2:12 After looking this way and that and seeing no ...

Exodus 2:12 - Moses Kills an Egyptian

After looking this way and that and seeing no one, he struck down the Egyptian and hid his body in the sand.

www.biblehub.com

Moses looked around to see if anyone was watching, then he killed the Egyptian and hid his body in the sand. Douay-Rheims Bible And when he had looked about this way and that way, and saw no one there, he slew the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.

The Bible sez the murderer hath not eternal life.
Jesus was with Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration.
Don't sound like murder to me. Looks like something else

Exodus 2:12 is about Moses killing the Egyptian.

 

[surada]

Passover to Exodus, let the story be told

Passover, Hebrew Pesaḥ or Pesach, in Judaism, holiday commemorating the Hebrews’ liberation from slavery in Egypt and the “passing over” of the forces of destruction, or the sparing of the firstborn of the Israelites, when the Lord “smote the land of Egypt” on the eve of the Exodus.

The above troubles me a bit. Since the Jews knew the angel of death was coming and the only way, they could be spared is to sprinkle lambs blood on their door why didn’t the warn others who were not Jews?

The part of scripture troubles me to, the idea the Jews were slaves in Egypt. Scripture tells another story—

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

(Gen 47:6 KJV) The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.

(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.

Clearly the Jews were not slaves in Egypt. Joseph ruled over Egypt and would have continued to rule until Moses destroys it all.

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brothers, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brothers. And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand. And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

A fellow? The Egyptians were treating the Jews as fellow Egyptians.

Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelled in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well. Moses and all the others flee Egypt and are scattered throughout the land.
Exodus 2:11 One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to his own people and observed their hard labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people.

The above marks the beginning of the great exodus. The Jews were not slaves, the Jews ruled over Egypt and the fled because Moses murders a man in cold blood.

The above is the true history of the Jews of old. Have they changed their ways?

You are welcome to correct me where corrections are needed.

The Bible is didactic literature not history.

 

[alang1216]

The Bible is didactic literature not history.

Whatever the original story of the Exodus, we'll probably never know. We do know that the writers of the Torah, Jews in Babylonian exile, related to the story of a people returning to the promised land and taking control of it. They believed God had tested them and they were "All Israel". The people who were living in Judea were no longer truly Jews.

 

[ding]

I wouldn't let the embellishments dissuade me from the underlying truth of the accounts.

 

[alang1216]

I wouldn't let the embellishments dissuade me from the underlying truth of the accounts.

Is it faith that lets you separate fact from fiction?

 

[ding]

Is it faith that lets you separate fact from fiction?

No. It's the search for the truth the author was trying to convey. These are accounts that were passed down orally. It's embellishment which makes accounts more memorable and easier to remember so that they can be passed down successfully. Think of it this way? Did George Washington really chop down a cherry tree or was the purpose of that account to pass down that he was an extraordinarily honest person.

Was there an exodus? I say yes. Did it happen exactly as it was written? I say no. But you have a people who have celebrated Passover for thousands of years. It's not based upon nothing. Something happened.

 

[alang1216]

No. It's the search for the truth the author was trying to convey. These are accounts that were passed down orally. It's embellishment which makes accounts more memorable and easier to remember so that they can be passed down successfully. Think of it this way? Did George Washington really chop down a cherry tree or was the purpose of that account to pass down that he was an extraordinarily honest person.

Was there an exodus? I say yes. Did it happen exactly as it was written? I say no. But you have a people who have celebrated Passover for thousands of years. It's not based upon nothing. Something happened.

Agreed. The theology is real, the events were embellished/interpreted/edited to support it, based on oral traditions.

 

[ding]

Agreed. The theology is real, the events were embellished/interpreted/edited to support it, based on oral traditions.

And may have been combined from traditions or history of other people. One thing is certain though... as for story telling, traditions and practices, they were heads and shoulders above their contemporaries. They really were that much more advanced in their moral practices and passing down knowledge to future generations.

 

[alang1216]

And may have been combined from traditions or history of other people. One thing is certain though... as for story telling, traditions and practices, they were heads and shoulders above their contemporaries. They really were that much more advanced in their moral practices and passing down knowledge to future generations.

I don't think there is any factual basis for that statement. Have you read the OT?

 

[ding]

I don't think there is any factual basis for that statement. Have you read the OT?

Which part? That it may have been borrowed from other people? I was thinking primarily about Exodus. But It would also probably apply to the the first 11 chapters of Genesis. I think embellishments are throughout their texts.

Or that they were heads and shoulders above their contemporaries? That observation was made by Huston Smith in his book The Illustrated World's Religions: A Guide to Our Wisdom Traditions. He's a pretty renowned expert on world religions. Maybe you have heard of him.

Yes, I have read the OT. And if you understand Leviticus 18:1-30 you would see how they were teaching to not behave as their neighbors did. Which confirms the observation by Huston Smith.

 

[surada]

No. It's the search for the truth the author was trying to convey. These are accounts that were passed down orally. It's embellishment which makes accounts more memorable and easier to remember so that they can be passed down successfully. Think of it this way? Did George Washington really chop down a cherry tree or was the purpose of that account to pass down that he was an extraordinarily honest person.

Was there an exodus? I say yes. Did it happen exactly as it was written? I say no. But you have a people who have celebrated Passover for thousands of years. It's not based upon nothing. Something happened.

Why didn't they write it down? Babylon and the Akkadians had written language. The north coast Canaanites had written language.

The Pentateuch was written 800 years after the death of Moses.

 

[ding]

Why didn't they write it down? Babylon and the Akkadians had written language. The north coast Canaanites had written language.

The Pentateuch was written 800 years after the death of Moses.

They did so when it was practical to do so and not until then. Prior to that point the vast amount of knowledge, history, wisdom, information, etc. were passed down orally.

 

[surada]

They did so when it was practical to do so and not until then. Prior to that point the vast amount of knowledge, history, wisdom, information, etc. were passed down orally.

Other civilizations wrote down their stories.

The Story of Sinuhe was a popular romantic story and was written down long before Moses.

 

[ding]

Other civilizations wrote down their stories.

The Story of Sinuhe was a popular romantic story and was written down long before Moses.

And you think that writing on limestone is a practical way to pass on knowledge to others and share information?

As uncomfortable as it may be for you to accept, storytelling was how the everyday average person passed down knowledge and information in antiquity.

 

[surada]

And you think that writing on limestone is a practical way to pass on knowledge to others and share information?

As uncomfortable as it may be for you to accept, storytelling was how the everyday average person passed down knowledge and information in antiquity.

This story was written down.

Story of Sinuhe - Wikipedia

Story of Sinuhe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Story of Sinuhe (also known as Sanehat) is considered one of the finest works of ancient Egyptian literature. It is a narrative set in the aftermath of the death of Pharaoh Amenemhat I, founder of the 12th Dynasty of Egypt, in the early 20th century BC. It was composed around 1875 BC, although the earliest extant manuscript is from the reign of Amenemhat III, c. 1800 BC. There is an ongoing debate a…

There are a number of sources telling the Story of Sinuhe. A limestone ostracon (a pottery or stone fragment) in the Egyptian Museum is over a yard long, and is possibly the largest ostracon in existence. It tells the beginning of the Story of Sinuhe, and is inscribed in Hieratic. The story dates from the 12th Dynasty and the fragment was found in the tomb of Sennutem.

 

[ding]

This story was written down.

Story of Sinuhe - Wikipedia

Story of Sinuhe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Story of Sinuhe (also known as Sanehat) is considered one of the finest works of ancient Egyptian literature. It is a narrative set in the aftermath of the death of Pharaoh Amenemhat I, founder of the 12th Dynasty of Egypt, in the early 20th century BC. It was composed around 1875 BC, although the earliest extant manuscript is from the reign of Amenemhat III, c. 1800 BC. There is an ongoing debate a…

There are a number of sources telling the Story of Sinuhe. A limestone ostracon (a pottery or stone fragment) in the Egyptian Museum is over a yard long, and is possibly the largest ostracon in existence. It tells the beginning of the Story of Sinuhe, and is inscribed in Hieratic. The story dates from the 12th Dynasty and the fragment was found in the tomb of Sennutem.

I know. I read that already. How does that address what I wrote?

 

[surada]

I know. I read that already. How does that address what I wrote?

I don't see why they wouldn't write it down.

Any time there was famine and drought people in surrounding areas headed for the Nile Delta... so that much is probably true. Otherwise the story is pretty fantastic and full of anachronisms. Taken as a foundational myth or a morality tale of redemption it makes sense.