Party Loyalty is Poison

That seems like a lot of trouble to go through, just so that the small number of third party voters can feel less marginalized when they go to the polls.
That's because you're missing the point. The point is to gain traction, to be heard. You keep ignoring this.
But, most third party voters would say that they really don't like either of the two party candidates at all.
But some of them still see an important difference between the two, even though they don't want either. They might think that Trump is an existential threat to the nation, and want to do whatever they can to stop them. The only way they can do that with plurality voting is to guess which of Trump's opponents is most likely to win, and vote for them. Even if they don't actually support that candidate.

Most voters vote this way. So even if they prefer a third party candidate, that preference is never registered, and two party goons get to pretend that only one percent of voters prefer other alternatives.

Ranked choice voting puts the lie to that claim and shows the real preferences if voters.
To a parliamentary system in the U.S.? We don't get from here to there, IMO.
Then why should I care?
They'll never accept RCV, either.
They already are. Despite attempts to smear and misrepresent RCV, sane people are recognizing its benefits.
 
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That's because you're missing the point. The point is to gain traction, to be heard. You keep ignoring this.
Okay, I'll address it.

Why do the small number of third party voters have more right to be hard than the same number of Republicans, or the same number of Democrats? Or if not a right, why should they be given the privilege of being heard more so than an equal number of Republicans or Democrats?

Why should our election laws be changed so that a small percent of the electorate can fell that they are being heard?

What if some other small group - say Republicans who don't like RINO's, or Republicans who don't like Trumpers - says, 'hey! I wanna vote for the Republican but I want the ballot to also have a check box that says "ONLY BECAUSE SHE ISN'T A RINO LIKE THAT RINO MITCH MCCONNEL!" or "BECAUSE HE'S ONE OF THE FEW REPUBLICANS WHO DON'T LIKE TRUMP!"

Or should Democrat voters have a box to check that says "I DON'T LIKE THIS GUY I'M VOTING FOR, BUT I DON'T WANT THE REPUBLICANS TO GET THIS SEAT!"

Should we change the election procedures so that they be heard, or gain traction?

Or should such people simply use their free speech to say exactly how they want things to be, and then vote as they please?

That's the way to be heard, and gain traction. Speak up. Be persuasive.

But some of them still see an important difference between the two, even though they don't want either. They might think that Trump is an existential threat to the nation, and want to do whatever they can to stop them. The only way they can do that with plurality voting is to guess which of Trump's opponents is most likely to win, and vote for them. Even if they don't actually support that candidate.
Congratulations to them. They are Democrats. It would true if it were vice-versa, but Democrats right now have no real policies besides hating Trump.
Most voters vote this way. So even if they prefer a third party candidate, that preference is never registered, and two party goons get to pretend that only one percent of voters prefer other alternatives.
Then the party must strive to convince the public that the "Republicrats" or "Democans" are so similar that it makes no sense to vote for either. They need to get that one percent up.
Ranked choice voting puts the lie to that claim and shows the real preferences if voters.
Yes, it would do that. I just don't see how that is important to anyone except that one percent (your figure).
Then why should I care?
Because you seem to want to advocate for a system that would give voice to small parties. If the Green and the Libertarians got one percent each of congress, that would be a big step in the right direction from your point of view.
They already are. Despite attempts to smear and misrepresent RCV, sane people are recognizing its benefits.
Then maybe your idea will gain momentem.
 
LOL - congratulations. You've discovered the entire point of RCV!

And it's a feature, not a bug. Voters don't have to pretend that the "lessers" actually represent their preference. Yet they can still vote against the candidates the really don't like at all.

But at the end of the day, you still end up with the Republican and the Democrat, so what is the point.

In the 2022 Alaska Senate Race, RCV ended up putting Sarah Palin in second, although no one really wanted her, and the Democrat ended up winning in a deep red state.

We went over that. I agree. How do you propose we get from here to there?

Stop whining about the two credible parties and get active. The reason why both parties are controlled by activists is that the activists actually put in the work.

In fact, the reason why the GOP has become more "Libertarian" is because the Billionaires stopped funding the waste of skin that is the Libertarian Party and started promoting their causes within the GOP.

That seems like a lot of trouble to go through, just so that the small number of third party voters can feel less marginalized when they go to the polls.

Exactly.

Looking at NYC, people are wondering how the hell Mamdani won. A guy who is anti-Zionist winning in a city that is 20% Jewish? A "Socialist" winning in the center of American Capitalism?
 
They already are. Despite attempts to smear and misrepresent RCV, sane people are recognizing its benefits.

No, they aren't, Ralphie.

Quite the contrary, Seven States rejected Ranked Choice voting, and the only reason why it BARELY survived in Alaska is because billionaires dumped a bunch of money into promoting it.

  • Alaska: The ballot measure to repeal ranked choice voting narrowly failed. Alaska’s RCV system, paired with a top-four blanket primary, was originally passed by Alaska voters in the 2020 election by a narrow margin of one percent.
  • Arizona: Arizona voters rejected Proposition 140, defeating a proposal to adopt blanket primaries and requiring RCV in elections where three or more candidates advance from the primary.
  • Colorado: Colorado voters rejected Proposition 131, defeating a proposal to adopt a top-four blanket primary and RCV electoral system for Congress, statewide offices, and state legislature.
  • Idaho: Idaho voters rejected Proposition 1, defeating a proposal to adopt a top-four primary and RCV electoral system for congressional, state, and county elected offices.
  • Montana: Montana voters rejected CI-126 and CI-127, defeating a proposal that would have adopted a top-four primary and given the legislature power to adopt an RCV electoral system for state and congressional elections.
  • Missouri: Missouri voters approved Amendment 7, prohibiting RCV and requiring plurality primary elections, where one winner advances to the general election.
  • Nevada: Nevada voters rejected Question 3, defeating a top-five blanket primary and RCV electoral system for general elections, applying to congressional and state elections. Notably, Nevada’s proposal would have established RCV by amending the state’s constitution, which would have effectively locked Nevada into these reforms, limiting the ability of the state legislature to revise procedures in response to changed circumstances, implementation challenges, or unintended consequences.
  • Oregon: Oregon voters rejected Measure 117, defeating ranked-choice voting in primary and general elections for federal and state executive offices beginning in 2028.
 
But at the end of the day, you still end up with the Republican and the Democrat, so what is the point.

In the 2022 Alaska Senate Race, RCV ended up putting Sarah Palin in second, although no one really wanted her, and the Democrat ended up winning in a deep red state.



Stop whining about the two credible parties and get active. The reason why both parties are controlled by activists is that the activists actually put in the work.

In fact, the reason why the GOP has become more "Libertarian" is because the Billionaires stopped funding the waste of skin that is the Libertarian Party and started promoting their causes within the GOP.



Exactly.

Looking at NYC, people are wondering how the hell Mamdani won. A guy who is anti-Zionist winning in a city that is 20% Jewish? A "Socialist" winning in the center of American Capitalism?
PIss off, troll.
 
Okay, I'll address it.

Why do the small number of third party voters have more right to be hard than the same number of Republicans, or the same number of Democrats? Or if not a right, why should they be given the privilege of being heard more so than an equal number of Republicans or Democrats?
Huh? This makes no sense. They're being "heard" in proportion to the number of votes they get. You're really reaching here.
Why should our election laws be changed so that a small percent of the electorate can fell that they are being heard?
Because they're currently being blocked by the system you're so desperate to protect.
What if some other small group - say Republicans who don't like RINO's, or Republicans who don't like Trumpers - says, 'hey! I wanna vote for the Republican but I want the ballot to also have a check box that says "ONLY BECAUSE SHE ISN'T A RINO LIKE THAT RINO MITCH MCCONNEL!" or "BECAUSE HE'S ONE OF THE FEW REPUBLICANS WHO DON'T LIKE TRUMP!"

Or should Democrat voters have a box to check that says "I DON'T LIKE THIS GUY I'M VOTING FOR, BUT I DON'T WANT THE REPUBLICANS TO GET THIS SEAT!"

Should we change the election procedures so that they be heard, or gain traction?

Or should such people simply use their free speech to say exactly how they want things to be, and then vote as they please?

That's the way to be heard, and gain traction. Speak up. Be persuasive.


Congratulations to them. They are Democrats. It would true if it were vice-versa, but Democrats right now have no real policies besides hating Trump.

Then the party must strive to convince the public that the "Republicrats" or "Democans" are so similar that it makes no sense to vote for either. They need to get that one percent up.

Yes, it would do that. I just don't see how that is important to anyone except that one percent (your figure).

Because you seem to want to advocate for a system that would give voice to small parties. If the Green and the Libertarians got one percent each of congress, that would be a big step in the right direction from your point of view.

Then maybe your idea will gain momentem.
Wow... this all kind of goes of the deep end. Regardless, none of the weak excuses you guys are coming up with justify a system that limits us to two "viable" candidates.
 
But thank you both for exemplifying the idiocy of the two party system and "party loyalty".
 
Wow... this all kind of goes of the deep end. Regardless, none of the weak excuses you guys are coming up with justify a system that limits us to two "viable" candidates.

If you want a third party candidate, do what those two parties did over hundreds of years. Build constituencies, find common ground on issues, and build a national image.

Or you can just keep being a pissant living in someone's basement complaining about the unfairness that people did the hard work you don't want to do.
 
Huh? This makes no sense. They're being "heard" in proportion to the number of votes they get. You're really reaching here.

Because they're currently being blocked by the system you're so desperate to protect.
Okay, I don't think you're even reading what I wrote based on those responses.
Wow... this all kind of goes of the deep end. Regardless, none of the weak excuses you guys are coming up with justify a system that limits us to two "viable" candidates.
No, there is no limit other than the number of candidates qualified by age and other requirements. The number of people who actually want to run is a limit, but one imposed by those who choose not to run.

We can vote for whatever candidate we want in the primary. Obviously, that didn't work out for Democrat voters in 2024, but normally, the voters choose the candidates from an effectively unlimited pool

Then in the General, the pool is . . . unlimited! Write in votes are allowed in all states, as far as I know. If not, that is the problem to be addressed.

Liberians were on the ballot in Texas in 2024, usually are. Not sure about Greenies, but if they are not, it is because they cannot even get enough signatures.

We have so many real problems, why focus on one that is largely imaginary, only important to one percent, and probably not solveable in the way you suggest?
 
We will have two parties until we discard the government model that keeps politicians divided in two camps. The parties' administrative costs could be a factor in finally dumping them and writing a new constitution, or letting government fall and be replaced as needed, where people can still afford government.
 
We have so many real problems, why focus on one that is largely imaginary, only important to one percent, and probably not solveable in the way you suggest?
Biden. Trump. Harris. That's the best the two-party system can do.
 
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This continues as long as we as a country don't care enough to fix a political "system" (ha) that motivates and rewards the very worst impulses of its participants.

And, since so much of America know far more about who won "Survivor" than about how our government works or about basic history, we might well be fucked.

Just another self-inflicted wound.
 
Biden. Trump. Harris. That's the best the two-party system can do.

Better than Dope Smoking Gary or Sissy Boy Chase.

Or Jo Jorgenson, who only barely beat out Vermin Supreme in a non-binding vote, tied with "None of hte Above", and ignored the preference for Jacob Hornberger

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Libertarian_Party_presidential_primaries

Wait, wait. "Joe Exotic" was also a Libertarian Candidate during the 2020 nominating process. You know, the Tiger King. Just because he happened to be in prison at the time.

Now your party has "Vermin Supreme" and the Tiger King as "serious" candidates, and you are going to complain about Trump and Biden?

Seriously?
 
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Oh, wait, it gets better.

As pointed out above, even though Hornberger got the most votes in the handful of primaries the Libertards held, they still nominated Jo Jorgensen because their goal in 2020 was to not be blamed if Trump got back in. So they nominated the least offensive creature they could find.


It gets better, though. IN the 2024 "Primaries," a guy named Charles Ballay got the most votes. The second highest vote getter was "None of the Above". Light in the Loafers Chase Oliver came in third place nationwide with a whopping 3498 votes.

Yet when it came to the convention, he got the nomination.

So let's review.

Libertarians lack the organization to hold primaries in all the states.
When they do let their small number of voters vote, they promptly ignore their preferences and pick someone else.

But according to Ralphie, we need to change the way we run elections so that Libertarians can get more of a chance!
 
15th post
Oh, wait, it gets better.
Joe, you're confused again. This thread isn't about your vendetta with Libertarians, and it's not about your trolling or your butthurt ego. Try to focus.
 
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Biden, Trump, Harris. Wallow in it.
 
This continues as long as we as a country don't care enough to fix a political "system" (ha) that motivates and rewards the very worst impulses of its participants.

And, since so much of America know far more about who won "Survivor" than about how our government works or about basic history, we might well be fucked.

Just another self-inflicted wound.
They two party clowns have turned the US government into a bad reality TV show.
 
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