Palestinians Are Their Own Worst Enemy

[MJB12741]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda as you and your buddies do, that's what irks you so much. I post facts with source documentation to back it up. You back up your nonsense with opinion pieces from Zionist/Jewish sites. Now, that's another fact.

No way do you irk the pro Israel posters. We love you for entertaining us. Hey Monti, did you hear the one about ISRAEL IS STEALING 'PALESTINIAN' LAND" Got any of your "facts with source documentation" to back it up for us? 'Atta boy.

 

[toastman]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda as you and your buddies do, that's what irks you so much. I post facts with source documentation to back it up. You back up your nonsense with opinion pieces from Zionist/Jewish sites. Now, that's another fact.

Thanks again for proving that you don't know what a fact is. You post no stop propaganda, day after day, more than any other deluded pro Palestinian here combined.
I have refuted so many of your bullshit lies with linkk and each time you were too much of a coward to admit it.
Just remember, runig around posting "I only post facts" doesn't make it so, and doesn't change the REAL FACT that you post Palestinian propaganda. There's NOTHING you can say to change this Monti, no matter how hard you try. Denial won't help, lying about it won't help.
Monti is a PROPAGANDA SPEWER . Now THAT'S a fact that no one can refute

The fact is that I mostly post from UN, League of Nations or Mandatory source documents. These are not propaganda. All you have is propaganda, that's all you have read or know. Repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true. I post fact from source documentation. You post propaganda, that's easy for all to see.

LOL Now you're just copying what I am saying about you. Nice try Monti, but it's not going to work. Sure, you've posted a few valid sources, but it doesn't make up for the immense propaganda that you spew on a daily basis.
Word of advice, no matter how much you deny it , it won't change anything. I've already exposed you for the lying propagandist that you are, it's too late now.
When people see your username, the word propaganda comes to their mind. But don't worry, you're not alone, as most of your pro Pali buddies here are the same.
Propagandatici LOL

 

[toastman]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda as you and your buddies do, that's what irks you so much. I post facts with source documentation to back it up. You back up your nonsense with opinion pieces from Zionist/Jewish sites. Now, that's another fact.

No way do you irk the pro Israel posters. We love you for entertaining us. Hey Monti, did you hear the one about ISRAEL IS STEALING 'PALESTINIAN' LAND" Got any of your "facts with source documentation" to back it up for us? 'Atta boy.

Can you believe this moron? One minute, he's spewing Palestinian propaganda, the next, he's claiming he only posts facts .

 

[montelatici]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda as you and your buddies do, that's what irks you so much. I post facts with source documentation to back it up. You back up your nonsense with opinion pieces from Zionist/Jewish sites. Now, that's another fact.

No way do you irk the pro Israel posters. We love you for entertaining us. Hey Monti, did you hear the one about ISRAEL IS STEALING 'PALESTINIAN' LAND" Got any of your "facts with source documentation" to back it up for us? 'Atta boy.

Can you believe this moron? One minute, he's spewing Palestinian propaganda, the next, he's claiming he only posts facts .

The fact is, non-Jews owned more than 85% of the land in 1946 and the Jews owned less than 7%. Now the Jews probably own more than 90% of the land and the non-Jews less than 10% I would estimate. How did the land go from non-Jews to Jews? Was it paid for? Were the non-Jews compensated in another way?

If not, what is it called when land is taken from someone without paying for it?

Name one item of Palestinian propaganda I have linked. Just one.

 

[toastman]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda as you and your buddies do, that's what irks you so much. I post facts with source documentation to back it up. You back up your nonsense with opinion pieces from Zionist/Jewish sites. Now, that's another fact.

No way do you irk the pro Israel posters. We love you for entertaining us. Hey Monti, did you hear the one about ISRAEL IS STEALING 'PALESTINIAN' LAND" Got any of your "facts with source documentation" to back it up for us? 'Atta boy.

Can you believe this moron? One minute, he's spewing Palestinian propaganda, the next, he's claiming he only posts facts .

The fact is, non-Jews owned more than 85% of the land in 1946 and the Jews owned less than 7%. Now the Jews probably own more than 90% of the land and the non-Jews less than 10% I would estimate. How did the land go from non-Jews to Jews? Was it paid for? Were the non-Jews compensated in another way?

If not, what is it called when land is taken from someone without paying for it?

View attachment 34837


Name one item of Palestinian propaganda I have linked. Just one.

Not your links, it's what you say about Israel.

What does anything you just posted have to do with anything? Israel declared independence legally after following the steps prepatory to independence laid out by the U.N. The West Bank is a different story.

 

[montelatici]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda as you and your buddies do, that's what irks you so much. I post facts with source documentation to back it up. You back up your nonsense with opinion pieces from Zionist/Jewish sites. Now, that's another fact.

No way do you irk the pro Israel posters. We love you for entertaining us. Hey Monti, did you hear the one about ISRAEL IS STEALING 'PALESTINIAN' LAND" Got any of your "facts with source documentation" to back it up for us? 'Atta boy.

Can you believe this moron? One minute, he's spewing Palestinian propaganda, the next, he's claiming he only posts facts .

The fact is, non-Jews owned more than 85% of the land in 1946 and the Jews owned less than 7%. Now the Jews probably own more than 90% of the land and the non-Jews less than 10% I would estimate. How did the land go from non-Jews to Jews? Was it paid for? Were the non-Jews compensated in another way?

If not, what is it called when land is taken from someone without paying for it?

View attachment 34837


Name one item of Palestinian propaganda I have linked. Just one.

Not your links, it's what you say about Israel.

What does anything you just posted have to do with anything? Israel declared independence legally after following the steps prepatory to independence laid out by the U.N. The West Bank is a different story.

So, they had the right to take land from the rightful owners? Have you ever heard of a UN action that sanctioned the taking of land from the owners without compensation?

What do you call taking land from the owners without compensation?

 

[montelatici]

And, answer the question what have I written that is not fact. I usually state the fact and then provide the source document.

 

[toastman]

And, answer the question what have I written that is not fact. I usually state the fact and then provide the source document.

Sometimes you do. Your claims that I have refuted:

European Jews invaded the land
The first aggression was the immigration
Israel is stolen land
Jews attacked Arabs first

I provided links to refute those claims.

 

[toastman]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda as you and your buddies do, that's what irks you so much. I post facts with source documentation to back it up. You back up your nonsense with opinion pieces from Zionist/Jewish sites. Now, that's another fact.

No way do you irk the pro Israel posters. We love you for entertaining us. Hey Monti, did you hear the one about ISRAEL IS STEALING 'PALESTINIAN' LAND" Got any of your "facts with source documentation" to back it up for us? 'Atta boy.

Can you believe this moron? One minute, he's spewing Palestinian propaganda, the next, he's claiming he only posts facts .

The fact is, non-Jews owned more than 85% of the land in 1946 and the Jews owned less than 7%. Now the Jews probably own more than 90% of the land and the non-Jews less than 10% I would estimate. How did the land go from non-Jews to Jews? Was it paid for? Were the non-Jews compensated in another way?

If not, what is it called when land is taken from someone without paying for it?

View attachment 34837


Name one item of Palestinian propaganda I have linked. Just one.

Not your links, it's what you say about Israel.

What does anything you just posted have to do with anything? Israel declared independence legally after following the steps prepatory to independence laid out by the U.N. The West Bank is a different story.

So, they had the right to take land from the rightful owners? Have you ever heard of a UN action that sanctioned the taking of land from the owners without compensation?

What do you call taking land from the owners without compensation?

The U.N recognized Israel almost right away after declaring independence and made Israel a full member one year later. If Israel had stolen the land, the U.N of all organizations would not have recognized Israel had they 'stolen' land.
You need to understand that there is a big difference between living on land in a certain region and having sovereignty over that land. Palestinians never had sovereignty over the land they lived on until much later on.

 

[MJB12741]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda as you and your buddies do, that's what irks you so much. I post facts with source documentation to back it up. You back up your nonsense with opinion pieces from Zionist/Jewish sites. Now, that's another fact.

No way do you irk the pro Israel posters. We love you for entertaining us. Hey Monti, did you hear the one about ISRAEL IS STEALING 'PALESTINIAN' LAND" Got any of your "facts with source documentation" to back it up for us? 'Atta boy.

Can you believe this moron? One minute, he's spewing Palestinian propaganda, the next, he's claiming he only posts facts .

The fact is, non-Jews owned more than 85% of the land in 1946 and the Jews owned less than 7%. Now the Jews probably own more than 90% of the land and the non-Jews less than 10% I would estimate. How did the land go from non-Jews to Jews? Was it paid for? Were the non-Jews compensated in another way?

If not, what is it called when land is taken from someone without paying for it?

View attachment 34837


Name one item of Palestinian propaganda I have linked. Just one.

Not your links, it's what you say about Israel.

What does anything you just posted have to do with anything? Israel declared independence legally after following the steps prepatory to independence laid out by the U.N. The West Bank is a different story.

So, they had the right to take land from the rightful owners? Have you ever heard of a UN action that sanctioned the taking of land from the owners without compensation?

What do you call taking land from the owners without compensation?

Now THAT'S funny! Israel took land from the rightful owners??? Who are the "rightful owners"? Did they have titles or deeds? Or are your "rightful owners" a bunch of Muslim Palestinian land theives?

 

[montelatici]

And, answer the question what have I written that is not fact. I usually state the fact and then provide the source document.

Sometimes you do. Your claims that I have refuted:

European Jews invaded the land

What do you call going somewhere else, expelling the people living there by force and taking over the rule of the area?

The first aggression was the immigration

Again, what do you call immigration with the intent to expel the locals and take over? You don't call that aggression?

Israel is stolen land

Of course it is, as the land records show. What do you call taking the land of people that once owned it without paying for it.

Jews attacked Arabs first

Of course they did, by going to another continent to expel the people living there is the first attack. What else can you call it?


You refuted nothing.

 

[toastman]

And, answer the question what have I written that is not fact. I usually state the fact and then provide the source document.

Sometimes you do. Your claims that I have refuted:

European Jews invaded the land

What do you call going somewhere else, expelling the people living there by force and taking over the rule of the area?

The first aggression was the immigration

Again, what do you call immigration with the intent to expel the locals and take over? You don't call that aggression?

Israel is stolen land

Of course it is, as the land records show. What do you call taking the land of people that once owned it without paying for it.

Jews attacked Arabs first

Of course they did, by going to another continent to expel the people living there is the first attack. What else can you call it?


You refuted nothing.

What you just posted is a perfect example of what I mean when I accuse you of posting propaganda. Saying something like "Jews went to Palestine and took over" is false and extremely misleading; Anyway, lets refute your lies once more.
I
1) I've shown you the definition of invasion 1000 times, and European Jews immigrating to mandatory Palestine was absolutely not an invasion. That's not up for debate.

2) The first aggression was killing and assaulting Jews. The first few attacks were actually targeting the local Jews. To answer your question, no, that is aggression. Some Jews wanting to make mandatory Palestine a country for themselves (key word=WANTING) is a completely different topic . I've provided links for the attacks as well.

3) No, not at all. If it was stealing, then why did the U.N approve of it, recognize Israel and then make Israel a full U.N member. The land records have NOTHING to do with anything. It does not matter how much land was owned by Arabs vs. Jews. Israel declared independence in 1948 using Resolution 181 as a basis, the SAME WAY the Palestinians did so in 1988

4) Huh? Are you saying that Jews were the first ones to start killing Arabs ? Immigrating is not an attack, no matter what your intention is. stupid thing to day What an incredibly . Arabs were the first ones to attack, and they did so by massacring Jews several times before ANY Arab was killed or even attacked.

The problem with you is that you are to much of a coward to admit that you lost the argument. But anyone is free to see that I refuted every single one of your lies, and I'll be glad to provide links .

 

[Kondor3]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda...

You post goat-droppings...

Or maybe you can roll-out another 20- or 30-year-old article and try to pass it off as current.

UN Reports, League of Nations and Mandatory Reports regarding Palestine found on UN or educational institution websites are not "articles". Film documentaries are not "articles". Any article that I have posted is from a reputable source, not a Zionist or Muslim leaning source...

Oh, I'd say that interjecting a 21-year-old article from the UK's "Independent", and trying to fold that into a present-day discussion of the reliability of our good friend and ally, Israel...

Congress Passes Bill Declaring Israel Special Type of Ally Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

...constitutes a reasonable basis for an observation along the lines of...

"..Or maybe you can roll-out another 20- or 30-year-old article and try to pass it off as current..."

...That is what irks you propagandists...

I'm not a propagandist... hell, I'm more brutally honest about likely Israeli intentions or remaining viable options than even most Israel supporters would like to see.

No... I'm part of the antidote to Militant Muslim apologists and aggressive Muslim propagandists such as yourself.

...You have never read one objective history or official report regarding the Palestine situation. You have only read Zionist or Israeli propaganda.

You have no idea what I've read or not read.

What you do know is that I oftentimes belittle much of your so-called documentation and conclusions...

Not for their merit or veracity... but for their near-complete irrelevance in the face of Reality.

It's difficult, dealing with someone who will counterpoint opinions or claims one day, then laugh at them the next, as ancient history, or unenforceable or impractical, or just plain irrelevant...

It's the difference between 'looking good on paper' and functioning in the real world of geopolitik and military capabilities.

 

[montelatici]

And, answer the question what have I written that is not fact. I usually state the fact and then provide the source document.

Sometimes you do. Your claims that I have refuted:

European Jews invaded the land

What do you call going somewhere else, expelling the people living there by force and taking over the rule of the area?

The first aggression was the immigration

Again, what do you call immigration with the intent to expel the locals and take over? You don't call that aggression?

Israel is stolen land

Of course it is, as the land records show. What do you call taking the land of people that once owned it without paying for it.

Jews attacked Arabs first

Of course they did, by going to another continent to expel the people living there is the first attack. What else can you call it?


You refuted nothing.

What you just posted is a perfect example of what I mean when I accuse you of posting propaganda. Saying something like "Jews went to Palestine and took over" is false and extremely misleading; Anyway, lets refute your lies once more.
I
1) I've shown you the definition of invasion 1000 times, and European Jews immigrating to mandatory Palestine was absolutely not an invasion. That's not up for debate.

2) The first aggression was killing and assaulting Jews. The first few attacks were actually targeting the local Jews. To answer your question, no, that is aggression. Some Jews wanting to make mandatory Palestine a country for themselves (key word=WANTING) is a completely different topic . I've provided links for the attacks as well.

3) No, not at all. If it was stealing, then why did the U.N approve of it, recognize Israel and then make Israel a full U.N member. The land records have NOTHING to do with anything. It does not matter how much land was owned by Arabs vs. Jews. Israel declared independence in 1948 using Resolution 181 as a basis, the SAME WAY the Palestinians did so in 1988

4) Huh? Are you saying that Jews were the first ones to start killing Arabs ? Immigrating is not an attack, no matter what your intention is. stupid thing to day What an incredibly . Arabs were the first ones to attack, and they did so by massacring Jews several times before ANY Arab was killed or even attacked.

The problem with you is that you are to much of a coward to admit that you lost the argument. But anyone is free to see that I refuted every single one of your lies, and I'll be glad to provide links .

1. Going to a place on another continent with the intention of displacing the local people and creating a society/government of your own is an invasion. This was the first aggression. How in the devil can you logically dispute this fact?

2. The first recorded violence was as a result of conflict about land and access to it. It mushroomed from this to what we have now. Suffice it to say, if the European Jews had not gone to Palestine, this initial violence would not have started. Who is to blame for the this initial violence? The Europeans that had gone to Palestine or the locals who the Europeans were preventing from going about their business as they had for thousands of years?

You will have to download the source document via the link below and read pages 78-80 if you do not believe the transcription. Note: Source documents require more work to find and read. But, they are bereft of propaganda, they disclose fact.

http://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:f7a32077-ccb8-4a6a-b18e-ce7a60fbf518/datastreams/ATTACHMENT1

".....there wore also sides to the

newcomers which rankled with the fellaheen and, as these soon

led to friction, they should be considered at some length.

The Jewish settlers caused offence because they were

ignorant of Arabic and of Arab ways; inadvertently they

flouted local custom. For example, usage had it that everyone

shared natural pasturelands, which were regarded by the

fellaheen as a "gift from God" - "hadha min Allah". The Jews,

unfamiliar with this custom and fearing for their first small

crops, regarded the incursions of Arab shepherds with their

flocks as trespass and expelled them forcibly. When they

found that the Arabs repeatedly sent flocks and cattle to

graze on their land, the Jews organised guards (often local

Arabs) whose duty it was to round up the offending animals

and corral them. Their owners were made to pay fines to

2 redeem the animals or were punished bodily. The colonies

wore a temptation to the Arabs to steal and, again, the Jewish

settlers were forthright in restraining t hem. Accidents,

personal quarrels over matters of no great import, and

ignorance of other local customs also brought Arabs and Jows to blows from time to time. In their brushes with the

Arabs, the Jewish colonists were apt to use a heavy hand,

for they wore tough young men, unaccustomed to being able to

hit back with impunity and determined not to yield to anyone.

The first collision of any consequence in the history

of the New Yishshub took place at Petah Tiqva on March 29th,1886. It involved fellaheen from the large Muslim Arab

village of al Yahudiya about four miles south of Petah Tiqva.

This village did not have sufficient pasture of its own and

was accustomed to graze its animals on Petah Tiqva 1 s land, a practice which the Jews had tried to prevent. The fellaheen,

on their side, also provided a source of friction, for

they had ploughed up a road to the north of the colony,

claiming that it was not a public highway and demanding that

the settlors use other routes to roach their outlying tracts

of land. This caused inconvenience and the settlors felt

they could not comply. On March 28th, Joshua Stampfer rode

down the old road on his way to one of these tracts of land

and was relieved of his horse by the fellaheen. On the same

day, the Jews rounded up ten mules belonging to the fellaheen

which they found grazing on their land. On March 29th it

rained heavily and most of the colonists went to Jaffa to

settle personal affairs rather than work in the muddy fields.

Fifty to sixty villagers from al Yahudiya, seeing that the

colony was virtually empty, attacked it, smashing windows

and destroying household goods.

3. Just because a Western controlled organization decides to completely overturn the treaties and promises made by the predecessor organization (the League of Nations) and take land from the local people and give it Europeans does not make it a legal or moral act. For example, though at the time it was considered "legal" and "proper", today we consider the assignment of parts of Latin America to Spain and Portugal by the Pope, ridiculous.

4. Immigrating with the clear intention of creating a state of your own and preventing the local people from continuing their way of life is aggression and an invasion. The European settlement of Palestine is no different than the European settlement of North America. The Europeans invaded North America, the Thanksgiving myth notwithstanding.

 

[Phoenall]

That's right facts, rather than promoting the murder of thousands of Palestinians as you regularly do. You will note that no neutral promotes the killing of Jews.

Then this means that you are not a neutral as you have been seen to promote the killing of Jews.

Demonstrate that I have ever said such a thing you lying psychotic bastard. I have never in my life wished for or stated anything that would bring harm on any people.

DONT LIE as you spot ISLAMINAZI PROPAGANDA that is meant to incite violence towards the Jews, repeating the lies that Israel murdered innocents this year when the world saw that hamas had placed them in harms way making them the murderers. Bring on the ICC and watch the P.A. cower when the evidence is read out in court and the presiding kudge demands arrests be made of hamas and fatah leaders.

 

[Phoenall]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda...

You post goat-droppings...

Or maybe you can roll-out another 20- or 30-year-old article and try to pass it off as current.

UN Reports, League of Nations and Mandatory Reports regarding Palestine found on UN or educational institution websites are not "articles". Film documentaries are not "articles". Any article that I have posted is from a reputable source, not a Zionist or Muslim leaning source. That is what irks you propagandists. You have never read one objective history or official report regarding the Palestine situation. You have only read Zionist or Israeli propaganda.

Nor are they source documents, but heavily reworked articles for publication from the original source documents. A good example is UN res 242 that has to be read in conjunction with the authors notes.

 

[Phoenall]

Of course I post fact, not propaganda as you and your buddies do, that's what irks you so much. I post facts with source documentation to back it up. You back up your nonsense with opinion pieces from Zionist/Jewish sites. Now, that's another fact.

Thanks again for proving that you don't know what a fact is. You post no stop propaganda, day after day, more than any other deluded pro Palestinian here combined.
I have refuted so many of your bullshit lies with linkk and each time you were too much of a coward to admit it.
Just remember, runig around posting "I only post facts" doesn't make it so, and doesn't change the REAL FACT that you post Palestinian propaganda. There's NOTHING you can say to change this Monti, no matter how hard you try. Denial won't help, lying about it won't help.
Monti is a PROPAGANDA SPEWER . Now THAT'S a fact that no one can refute

The fact is that I mostly post from UN, League of Nations or Mandatory source documents. These are not propaganda. All you have is propaganda, that's all you have read or know. Repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true. I post fact from source documentation. You post propaganda, that's easy for all to see.

WRONG you post articles from the UN archives and any reports that back up your POV, denying that any other reports are not valid because they don't match your singular POV.

You post fantasy from abridged compilations that support your ISLAMONAZI POV AND PROPAGANDA as told to you by your imam.

 

[Phoenall]

And, answer the question what have I written that is not fact. I usually state the fact and then provide the source document.

Sometimes you do. Your claims that I have refuted:

European Jews invaded the land

What do you call going somewhere else, expelling the people living there by force and taking over the rule of the area?

The first aggression was the immigration

Again, what do you call immigration with the intent to expel the locals and take over? You don't call that aggression?

Israel is stolen land

Of course it is, as the land records show. What do you call taking the land of people that once owned it without paying for it.

Jews attacked Arabs first

Of course they did, by going to another continent to expel the people living there is the first attack. What else can you call it?


You refuted nothing.

What you just posted is a perfect example of what I mean when I accuse you of posting propaganda. Saying something like "Jews went to Palestine and took over" is false and extremely misleading; Anyway, lets refute your lies once more.
I
1) I've shown you the definition of invasion 1000 times, and European Jews immigrating to mandatory Palestine was absolutely not an invasion. That's not up for debate.

2) The first aggression was killing and assaulting Jews. The first few attacks were actually targeting the local Jews. To answer your question, no, that is aggression. Some Jews wanting to make mandatory Palestine a country for themselves (key word=WANTING) is a completely different topic . I've provided links for the attacks as well.

3) No, not at all. If it was stealing, then why did the U.N approve of it, recognize Israel and then make Israel a full U.N member. The land records have NOTHING to do with anything. It does not matter how much land was owned by Arabs vs. Jews. Israel declared independence in 1948 using Resolution 181 as a basis, the SAME WAY the Palestinians did so in 1988

4) Huh? Are you saying that Jews were the first ones to start killing Arabs ? Immigrating is not an attack, no matter what your intention is. stupid thing to day What an incredibly . Arabs were the first ones to attack, and they did so by massacring Jews several times before ANY Arab was killed or even attacked.

The problem with you is that you are to much of a coward to admit that you lost the argument. But anyone is free to see that I refuted every single one of your lies, and I'll be glad to provide links .

1. Going to a place on another continent with the intention of displacing the local people and creating a society/government of your own is an invasion. This was the first aggression. How in the devil can you logically dispute this fact?

2. The first recorded violence was as a result of conflict about land and access to it. It mushroomed from this to what we have now. Suffice it to say, if the European Jews had not gone to Palestine, this initial violence would not have started. Who is to blame for the this initial violence? The Europeans that had gone to Palestine or the locals who the Europeans were preventing from going about their business as they had for thousands of years?

You will have to download the source document via the link below and read pages 78-80 if you do not believe the transcription. Note: Source documents require more work to find and read. But, they are bereft of propaganda, they disclose fact.

http://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:f7a32077-ccb8-4a6a-b18e-ce7a60fbf518/datastreams/ATTACHMENT1

".....there wore also sides to the

newcomers which rankled with the fellaheen and, as these soon

led to friction, they should be considered at some length.

The Jewish settlers caused offence because they were

ignorant of Arabic and of Arab ways; inadvertently they

flouted local custom. For example, usage had it that everyone

shared natural pasturelands, which were regarded by the

fellaheen as a "gift from God" - "hadha min Allah". The Jews,

unfamiliar with this custom and fearing for their first small

crops, regarded the incursions of Arab shepherds with their

flocks as trespass and expelled them forcibly. When they

found that the Arabs repeatedly sent flocks and cattle to

graze on their land, the Jews organised guards (often local

Arabs) whose duty it was to round up the offending animals

and corral them. Their owners were made to pay fines to

2 redeem the animals or were punished bodily. The colonies

wore a temptation to the Arabs to steal and, again, the Jewish

settlers were forthright in restraining t hem. Accidents,

personal quarrels over matters of no great import, and

ignorance of other local customs also brought Arabs and Jows to blows from time to time. In their brushes with the

Arabs, the Jewish colonists were apt to use a heavy hand,

for they wore tough young men, unaccustomed to being able to

hit back with impunity and determined not to yield to anyone.

The first collision of any consequence in the history

of the New Yishshub took place at Petah Tiqva on March 29th,1886. It involved fellaheen from the large Muslim Arab

village of al Yahudiya about four miles south of Petah Tiqva.

This village did not have sufficient pasture of its own and

was accustomed to graze its animals on Petah Tiqva 1 s land, a practice which the Jews had tried to prevent. The fellaheen,

on their side, also provided a source of friction, for

they had ploughed up a road to the north of the colony,

claiming that it was not a public highway and demanding that

the settlors use other routes to roach their outlying tracts

of land. This caused inconvenience and the settlors felt

they could not comply. On March 28th, Joshua Stampfer rode

down the old road on his way to one of these tracts of land

and was relieved of his horse by the fellaheen. On the same

day, the Jews rounded up ten mules belonging to the fellaheen

which they found grazing on their land. On March 29th it

rained heavily and most of the colonists went to Jaffa to

settle personal affairs rather than work in the muddy fields.

Fifty to sixty villagers from al Yahudiya, seeing that the

colony was virtually empty, attacked it, smashing windows

and destroying household goods.

3. Just because a Western controlled organization decides to completely overturn the treaties and promises made by the predecessor organization (the League of Nations) and take land from the local people and give it Europeans does not make it a legal or moral act. For example, though at the time it was considered "legal" and "proper", today we consider the assignment of parts of Latin America to Spain and Portugal by the Pope, ridiculous.

4. Immigrating with the clear intention of creating a state of your own and preventing the local people from continuing their way of life is aggression and an invasion. The European settlement of Palestine is no different than the European settlement of North America. The Europeans invaded North America, the Thanksgiving myth notwithstanding.

Which is what the muslims are doing, the Jews were invited by firstly the Ottomans and then by the LoN. So not an invasion at all

The first recorded violence was when Mohamed wiped out the Jewish tribe at medina because they would not worship him as god. In your Koran and hadiths.


The muslims who followed the commands of their religion blindly when it commanded them to KILL THE JEWS

It was the LoN that invited the Jews and gave them the land, just as it gave the muslims Jordan. And it complied with CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW so is valid. You cant put 2014 thinking into actions from 1948 as the problem would be never ending.

MORE ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA as Israel placed the welfare of the non Jews in their declaration of independence as agreed with the LoN under the Mandate of Palestine. It was the arab muslims that breached those terms and should be held to account by the UN, ICC and ICJ

 

[MJB12741]

No way do you irk the pro Israel posters. We love you for entertaining us. Hey Monti, did you hear the one about ISRAEL IS STEALING 'PALESTINIAN' LAND" Got any of your "facts with source documentation" to back it up for us? 'Atta boy.

Can you believe this moron? One minute, he's spewing Palestinian propaganda, the next, he's claiming he only posts facts .

The fact is, non-Jews owned more than 85% of the land in 1946 and the Jews owned less than 7%. Now the Jews probably own more than 90% of the land and the non-Jews less than 10% I would estimate. How did the land go from non-Jews to Jews? Was it paid for? Were the non-Jews compensated in another way?

If not, what is it called when land is taken from someone without paying for it?

View attachment 34837


Name one item of Palestinian propaganda I have linked. Just one.

Not your links, it's what you say about Israel.

What does anything you just posted have to do with anything? Israel declared independence legally after following the steps prepatory to independence laid out by the U.N. The West Bank is a different story.

So, they had the right to take land from the rightful owners? Have you ever heard of a UN action that sanctioned the taking of land from the owners without compensation?

What do you call taking land from the owners without compensation?

Now THAT'S funny! Israel took land from the rightful owners??? Who are the "rightful owners"? Did they have titles or deeds? Or are your "rightful owners" a bunch of Muslim Palestinian land theives?

Hmmm! Still no reply. Golly gee, why is that?

 

[toastman]

And, answer the question what have I written that is not fact. I usually state the fact and then provide the source document.

Sometimes you do. Your claims that I have refuted:

European Jews invaded the land

What do you call going somewhere else, expelling the people living there by force and taking over the rule of the area?

The first aggression was the immigration

Again, what do you call immigration with the intent to expel the locals and take over? You don't call that aggression?

Israel is stolen land

Of course it is, as the land records show. What do you call taking the land of people that once owned it without paying for it.

Jews attacked Arabs first

Of course they did, by going to another continent to expel the people living there is the first attack. What else can you call it?


You refuted nothing.

What you just posted is a perfect example of what I mean when I accuse you of posting propaganda. Saying something like "Jews went to Palestine and took over" is false and extremely misleading; Anyway, lets refute your lies once more.
I
1) I've shown you the definition of invasion 1000 times, and European Jews immigrating to mandatory Palestine was absolutely not an invasion. That's not up for debate.

2) The first aggression was killing and assaulting Jews. The first few attacks were actually targeting the local Jews. To answer your question, no, that is aggression. Some Jews wanting to make mandatory Palestine a country for themselves (key word=WANTING) is a completely different topic . I've provided links for the attacks as well.

3) No, not at all. If it was stealing, then why did the U.N approve of it, recognize Israel and then make Israel a full U.N member. The land records have NOTHING to do with anything. It does not matter how much land was owned by Arabs vs. Jews. Israel declared independence in 1948 using Resolution 181 as a basis, the SAME WAY the Palestinians did so in 1988

4) Huh? Are you saying that Jews were the first ones to start killing Arabs ? Immigrating is not an attack, no matter what your intention is. stupid thing to day What an incredibly . Arabs were the first ones to attack, and they did so by massacring Jews several times before ANY Arab was killed or even attacked.

The problem with you is that you are to much of a coward to admit that you lost the argument. But anyone is free to see that I refuted every single one of your lies, and I'll be glad to provide links .

1. Going to a place on another continent with the intention of displacing the local people and creating a society/government of your own is an invasion. This was the first aggression. How in the devil can you logically dispute this fact?

2. The first recorded violence was as a result of conflict about land and access to it. It mushroomed from this to what we have now. Suffice it to say, if the European Jews had not gone to Palestine, this initial violence would not have started. Who is to blame for the this initial violence? The Europeans that had gone to Palestine or the locals who the Europeans were preventing from going about their business as they had for thousands of years?

You will have to download the source document via the link below and read pages 78-80 if you do not believe the transcription. Note: Source documents require more work to find and read. But, they are bereft of propaganda, they disclose fact.

http://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:f7a32077-ccb8-4a6a-b18e-ce7a60fbf518/datastreams/ATTACHMENT1

".....there wore also sides to the

newcomers which rankled with the fellaheen and, as these soon

led to friction, they should be considered at some length.

The Jewish settlers caused offence because they were

ignorant of Arabic and of Arab ways; inadvertently they

flouted local custom. For example, usage had it that everyone

shared natural pasturelands, which were regarded by the

fellaheen as a "gift from God" - "hadha min Allah". The Jews,

unfamiliar with this custom and fearing for their first small

crops, regarded the incursions of Arab shepherds with their

flocks as trespass and expelled them forcibly. When they

found that the Arabs repeatedly sent flocks and cattle to

graze on their land, the Jews organised guards (often local

Arabs) whose duty it was to round up the offending animals

and corral them. Their owners were made to pay fines to

2 redeem the animals or were punished bodily. The colonies

wore a temptation to the Arabs to steal and, again, the Jewish

settlers were forthright in restraining t hem. Accidents,

personal quarrels over matters of no great import, and

ignorance of other local customs also brought Arabs and Jows to blows from time to time. In their brushes with the

Arabs, the Jewish colonists were apt to use a heavy hand,

for they wore tough young men, unaccustomed to being able to

hit back with impunity and determined not to yield to anyone.

The first collision of any consequence in the history

of the New Yishshub took place at Petah Tiqva on March 29th,1886. It involved fellaheen from the large Muslim Arab

village of al Yahudiya about four miles south of Petah Tiqva.

This village did not have sufficient pasture of its own and

was accustomed to graze its animals on Petah Tiqva 1 s land, a practice which the Jews had tried to prevent. The fellaheen,

on their side, also provided a source of friction, for

they had ploughed up a road to the north of the colony,

claiming that it was not a public highway and demanding that

the settlors use other routes to roach their outlying tracts

of land. This caused inconvenience and the settlors felt

they could not comply. On March 28th, Joshua Stampfer rode

down the old road on his way to one of these tracts of land

and was relieved of his horse by the fellaheen. On the same

day, the Jews rounded up ten mules belonging to the fellaheen

which they found grazing on their land. On March 29th it

rained heavily and most of the colonists went to Jaffa to

settle personal affairs rather than work in the muddy fields.

Fifty to sixty villagers from al Yahudiya, seeing that the

colony was virtually empty, attacked it, smashing windows

and destroying household goods.

3. Just because a Western controlled organization decides to completely overturn the treaties and promises made by the predecessor organization (the League of Nations) and take land from the local people and give it Europeans does not make it a legal or moral act. For example, though at the time it was considered "legal" and "proper", today we consider the assignment of parts of Latin America to Spain and Portugal by the Pope, ridiculous.

4. Immigrating with the clear intention of creating a state of your own and preventing the local people from continuing their way of life is aggression and an invasion. The European settlement of Palestine is no different than the European settlement of North America. The Europeans invaded North America, the Thanksgiving myth notwithstanding.

1) then provide a link like I did to prove it was an invasion. I already disproved it with a link, all you posted was your bullshit opinion.

2) Massacring Jews was the first aggression. This is the third time you changed your story. First you said Jews killed Arabs first. When I refuted that you changed your story to Jews stole land before and Jews were killed. When I refuted that, you changed your story to the current one which is immigrating to the land was the first aggression. How can you possibly say something so stupid ?? You're nothing but a liar Monti, and you know it.

3)You didn't refute anything I said. You always use the U.N as a source, but now that the U.N refutes your lie, you call it a western controlled organization (which it never was)

4) Actually, the British promised the JEws that they could create a counry. Now, where is your link that says that what you claim, is really an invasion. I already provided links that prove an invasion is a military offensive.


What a waste of a post Monti. You did nothing but further prove that you are a liar, a MASSIVE MASSIVE MASSIVE propagandist and extremely stupid.

Immigrating to Mandatory Palestine was the first aggression? HAHAHAHA ! Poor moron can't handle the truth. Any time you want to post the same lies, I have no problem refuting your bullshit.

Oh, and as I offered before, we can take our debate to another section in USMB and several unbiased posters can determine who's right. But of course you're too much of a coward to do it because you know you're wrong.