Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinian nationality.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The "Right of Self-Defense presupposes imminent threat or actual attack by a hostile armed aggressor. The central theme is found in Chapter i, Article 2(4) (pertaining to threat) • and • Chapter VII, Article 51, UN Charter (pertaining to actual attack).

Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist canard?

I know, Palestinians have no rights including the right to defend themselves.

(COMMENT)

Terrorism has been defined since the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism:

View attachment 378755
​

This nonsense about the Israeli "Terrorist Canard" (as in unfounded) is simply reliant on the hope that the reader has a very poor vocabulary and a total lack of understanding pertaining to terrorism - political violence and its true meaning. It is a way for the Hostile Arab Palestinian to appear to defe3nd itself against the truth, without any real supporting evidence at hand.

I do not recall anyone saying that the Palestinians do not have the Right to Self-Defense. In fact, they have the same "Right" to Self-Defense and another entity. You use that approach by saying "Palestinians have no rights" when in fact you know nothing of the sort. It is a Philosophical Facllacy which appeals to feelings of anger, pity, sympathy, and so-on. All entities (as said) have that "Right." But with that "Right" comes the limitation (as most "Right" comes with some limitation) there is "No Justification for Terrorism." But I'm not sure this plays well with the audience in this discussion group.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, what makes Palestinians terrorists besides Israel's name calling?

Actions and behaviors. Even the most simple concepts leave you befuddled.

Nice duck.

Isn't that your default response
when requested to set a consistent definition?

Can't do that without fitting your Jihadi degenerates.

Your post was mindless clutter.

It was your claim that Palis don't fit the definition of 'terrorists', and only act in 'self defense',
but each time asked to set a definition you evade the opportunity to prove that claim.

Then what should I conclude about those claims if you can't back them up?

Each person has his own idea of self defense. It is not up to me to say.

But we can discuss our idea of self defense and terrorism.

Ok, Tinmore,
after years of nowhere leading arguments I propose a serious open discussion,
that I think we both would be interested in, at least out of healthy curiosity.

I propose - the subject of war.

What do I mean? All the tactics of this conflict are open for discussion.
Meaning that I can discuss Hamas tactics detached from political affiliation,
as tactics in themselves, and you can bring all the arguments against Israeli tactics.

Everything is open, but we discuss it around the subject of: 'self-defense' vs 'terror'.

At what point do they correlate, the intents, outcomes...
Maybe it deserves a thread of its own.

Are you in?

Sure, but this is not a religious conflict. We have to leave religion out of it.

It certainly is a religious conflict. The Hamas Charter is explicit in identifying that Islam will destroy Israel. There are also tribal and ethnic elements that define Arab-Moslem socio-religious cultural norms.

Ah, the Hamas lady posts again.

Ah, your usual retreat.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The story of Palestinian People - Dr. Mustafa Barghouti

 

[Hollie]

The story of Palestinian People - Dr. Mustafa Barghouti

Islamic terrorists could stop their war at any time.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: These children were hurt (strictly!) because of the callous disregard for human life on the part of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the reasons and tactics employed in the prosecution of their campaign for wealth and power.

The story of Palestinian People - Dr. Mustafa Barghouti

(COMMENT)

While the HoAP have claimed that they pursue the prosecution of Asymmetric Warfare (utilizing Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, and Radicalized Islamic Followers) for more than half-century, they have not achieved and decisive progress towards their stated objectives during their envolvle in hostilities.

◈ The HoAP must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating legitimate targets within or near densely populated areas.​

​

◈ The HoAP must, to the extent feasible, remove Arab Palestinian civilian persons under its control from the vicinity of legitimate HoAP targets.​

​

◈ Under the Statute of the International Criminal Court, when the HoAP are “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person (Human Shields) to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” such action constitutes a war crime in the Arab-Israeli conflict.​

The campaign by the HoAP to exact sympathy from the international community by placing these children (as well as other civilians) in harm's way is a means of manipulating the focus of media attention to gain sympathy that will improve the image of the HoAP away from the fact that they are Humanitarian Law violators and to improve the chances for greater contributions from donor nations.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: These children were hurt (strictly!) because of the callous disregard for human life on the part of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) and the reasons and tactics employed in the prosecution of their campaign for wealth and power.

The story of Palestinian People - Dr. Mustafa Barghouti

(COMMENT)

While the HoAP have claimed that they pursue the prosecution of Asymmetric Warfare (utilizing Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, and Radicalized Islamic Followers) for more than half-century, they have not achieved and decisive progress towards their stated objectives during their envolvle in hostilities.

◈ The HoAP must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating legitimate targets within or near densely populated areas.​

​

◈ The HoAP must, to the extent feasible, remove Arab Palestinian civilian persons under its control from the vicinity of legitimate HoAP targets.​

​

◈ Under the Statute of the International Criminal Court, when the HoAP are “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person (Human Shields) to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” such action constitutes a war crime in the Arab-Israeli conflict.​

The campaign by the HoAP to exact sympathy from the international community by placing these children (as well as other civilians) in harm's way is a means of manipulating the focus of media attention to gain sympathy that will improve the image of the HoAP away from the fact that they are Humanitarian Law violators and to improve the chances for greater contributions from donor nations.


Most Respectfully,
R

away from the fact that they are Humanitarian Law violators

How so?

Links?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinian Leadership: What a New Model Might Look Like

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The al-Shabaka is an academic single channel network billing itself as a (non-partisan) Policy Network (The Palestinian Policy Network). This segment (called a Policy Lab) is discussing the Leadership Crisis, wherein, Marwa Fatafta and Fadi Quran present views narrated by Alaa Tartir. It is rather dry. BUT it does highlight the weaknesses of the governing system over the Palestinian People. At the outset of the discussion makes it very clear that President Mahmoud Abbas is the fundamental leader by default, as the National Council (Legislative Branch) and the Executive Committee (Executive Guidance) are ineffective and paralyzed which placed the power into the hands of President Abbas. The Key address by Marwa Fatafta is that the Palestinian Leadership has "failed" to render unto the people the promise of Peace, Justice, and Self-Determination in the last quarter-century since the Oslo Accords. Ms Fatafta also points out that there is a growing problem under the landscape that criminalizes free-speech under the Authoritarian Regime of President Abbas; and the "rampant corruption" within the Regime.

Palestinian Leadership: What a New Model Might Look Like

(COMMENT)

If you dig through this presentation, you find that (even though it is a contribution to the discussion forum by P F Tinmore) it frames the unspoken truth that the problems within the failed State of Palestine is largely the fault of the Palestinian People which has lost control of their ineffective government in crisis. The Arab-Palestinian People know this with about ≈78% believing that the Palestinian Authority is corrupt and ≈50% and that the corruption is a burden on the Arab Palestinian People.

Fadi Quran (21 - 22 minutes into the presentation) makes the "educated guess" that of the alternative models to choose from, the Arab Palestinian people would rather focus on (less on state-building and more on) "rebuilding the liberation movement" → mentioning the underground inspired protest against the corruption of the Palestinian Government. I found that very interesting. Here we have a shift in focus of the Arab Palestinian protests from the Israelis to the Corrupt Government. Hummm!

Neither Ms Fatafta or Mr Quran are letting Israel off the hook; but, they are not complaining (at least in this segment) Israeli Occupation. They are (in a round-about way) being to show some responsibility for their plight.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

Palestinian Leadership: What a New Model Might Look Like

Why would the new model be any different than the line of despots and misfits that defined the earlier model?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The al-Shabaka is an academic single channel network billing itself as a (non-partisan) Policy Network (The Palestinian Policy Network). This segment (called a Policy Lab) is discussing the Leadership Crisis, wherein, Marwa Fatafta and Fadi Quran present views narrated by Alaa Tartir. It is rather dry. BUT it does highlight the weaknesses of the governing system over the Palestinian People. At the outset of the discussion makes it very clear that President Mahmoud Abbas is the fundamental leader by default, as the National Council (Legislative Branch) and the Executive Committee (Executive Guidance) are ineffective and paralyzed which placed the power into the hands of President Abbas. The Key address by Marwa Fatafta is that the Palestinian Leadership has "failed" to render unto the people the promise of Peace, Justice, and Self-Determination in the last quarter-century since the Oslo Accords. Ms Fatafta also points out that there is a growing problem under the landscape that criminalizes free-speech under the Authoritarian Regime of President Abbas; and the "rampant corruption" within the Regime.

Palestinian Leadership: What a New Model Might Look Like

(COMMENT)

If you dig through this presentation, you find that (even though it is a contribution to the discussion forum by P F Tinmore) it frames the unspoken truth that the problems within the failed State of Palestine is largely the fault of the Palestinian People which has lost control of their ineffective government in crisis. The Arab-Palestinian People know this with about ≈78% believing that the Palestinian Authority is corrupt and ≈50% and that the corruption is a burden on the Arab Palestinian People.

Fadi Quran (21 - 22 minutes into the presentation) makes the "educated guess" that of the alternative models to choose from, the Arab Palestinian people would rather focus on (less on state-building and more on) "rebuilding the liberation movement" → mentioning the underground inspired protest against the corruption of the Palestinian Government. I found that very interesting. Here we have a shift in focus of the Arab Palestinian protests from the Israelis to the Corrupt Government. Hummm!

Neither Ms Fatafta or Mr Quran are letting Israel off the hook; but, they are not complaining (at least in this segment) Israeli Occupation. They are (in a round-about way) being to show some responsibility for their plight.


Most Respectfully,
R

it frames the unspoken truth that the problems within the failed State of Palestine is largely the fault of the Palestinian People which has lost control of their ineffective government in crisis.

There is a lot of criticism of the Palestinian government mostly by the Palestinians themselves. The fact is that it is not a Palestinian government. It was imposed on the Palestinians by foreign powers. It is a Bantustan Government.

From 26:00 to 43:00.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: For some people:

​

◈ The Israelis will always be the bad guys.​

.....................and some others:​

◈ The Arab-Palestinians will always be the bad guys.​

..........................and then,​

◈ There are a few that will see that both Parties had made mistakes.​

it frames the unspoken truth that the problems within the failed State of Palestine is largely the fault of the Palestinian People which has lost control of their ineffective government in crisis.

Why would the new model be any different than the line of despots and misfits that defined the earlier model?

There is a lot of criticism of the Palestinian government mostly by the Palestinians themselves. The fact is that it is not a Palestinian government. It was imposed on the Palestinians by foreign powers. It is a Bantustan Government.

(COMMENT)

✦ I do not see a correlation to "apartheid" and the law is written.​

​

✦ I don't see a case of territory that is, under Israeli sovereignty, being set aside for Arab Palestinian inhabitants.​

With the exception of Area "A" where → they have full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority → (self-government body established in Oslo II Accords) and the Gaza Strip (by unilateral withdrawal), I do not see where there is a valid argument for the Arab Palestinians having a history of sovereignty.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The al-Shabaka is an academic single channel network billing itself as a (non-partisan) Policy Network (The Palestinian Policy Network). This segment (called a Policy Lab) is discussing the Leadership Crisis, wherein, Marwa Fatafta and Fadi Quran present views narrated by Alaa Tartir. It is rather dry. BUT it does highlight the weaknesses of the governing system over the Palestinian People. At the outset of the discussion makes it very clear that President Mahmoud Abbas is the fundamental leader by default, as the National Council (Legislative Branch) and the Executive Committee (Executive Guidance) are ineffective and paralyzed which placed the power into the hands of President Abbas. The Key address by Marwa Fatafta is that the Palestinian Leadership has "failed" to render unto the people the promise of Peace, Justice, and Self-Determination in the last quarter-century since the Oslo Accords. Ms Fatafta also points out that there is a growing problem under the landscape that criminalizes free-speech under the Authoritarian Regime of President Abbas; and the "rampant corruption" within the Regime.

Palestinian Leadership: What a New Model Might Look Like

(COMMENT)

If you dig through this presentation, you find that (even though it is a contribution to the discussion forum by P F Tinmore) it frames the unspoken truth that the problems within the failed State of Palestine is largely the fault of the Palestinian People which has lost control of their ineffective government in crisis. The Arab-Palestinian People know this with about ≈78% believing that the Palestinian Authority is corrupt and ≈50% and that the corruption is a burden on the Arab Palestinian People.

Fadi Quran (21 - 22 minutes into the presentation) makes the "educated guess" that of the alternative models to choose from, the Arab Palestinian people would rather focus on (less on state-building and more on) "rebuilding the liberation movement" → mentioning the underground inspired protest against the corruption of the Palestinian Government. I found that very interesting. Here we have a shift in focus of the Arab Palestinian protests from the Israelis to the Corrupt Government. Hummm!

Neither Ms Fatafta or Mr Quran are letting Israel off the hook; but, they are not complaining (at least in this segment) Israeli Occupation. They are (in a round-about way) being to show some responsibility for their plight.


Most Respectfully,
R

it frames the unspoken truth that the problems within the failed State of Palestine is largely the fault of the Palestinian People which has lost control of their ineffective government in crisis.

There is a lot of criticism of the Palestinian government mostly by the Palestinians themselves. The fact is that it is not a Palestinian government. It was imposed on the Palestinians by foreign powers. It is a Bantustan Government.

From 26:00 to 43:00.

That’s just an old, tired cut and paste YouTube video you attached old, tired slogans to.

 

[P F Tinmore]

◈ There are a few that will see that both Parties had made mistakes.

The only mistake the Palestinians made was not being Jewish.

 

[rylah]

◈ There are a few that will see that both Parties had made mistakes.

The only mistake the Palestinians made was not being Jewish.

This only shows your use of "Palestinians" is to exclude Jews.
And that is symptomatic of the entire conflict.

When Arabs expelled Jews from all the holy cities,
that triggered a response, signaling the end of Arab-Muslim hegemony.

 

[P F Tinmore]

◈ There are a few that will see that both Parties had made mistakes.

The only mistake the Palestinians made was not being Jewish.

This only shows your use of "Palestinians" is to exclude Jews.
And that is symptomatic of the entire conflict.

When Arabs expelled Jews from all the holy cities,
that triggered a response, signaling the end of Arab-Muslim hegemony.

When Arabs expelled Jews from all the holy cities,

That was Jordan. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.

And remember that the Zionists gave the West Bank to Jordan.

 

[rylah]

◈ There are a few that will see that both Parties had made mistakes.

The only mistake the Palestinians made was not being Jewish.

This only shows your use of "Palestinians" is to exclude Jews.
And that is symptomatic of the entire conflict.

When Arabs expelled Jews from all the holy cities,
that triggered a response, signaling the end of Arab-Muslim hegemony.

When Arabs expelled Jews from all the holy cities,

That was Jordan. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.

And remember that the Zionists gave the West Bank to Jordan.

Before Arabs helped the Brtish invasion,
and Jordan became a separate country.

I'm talking about the time of the Ottoman Caliphate.
Arab pogroms expelled all the local Jewish community from the holy cities.

The Jewish response gave fruits,
and the land certainly accommodates that.

With the end of the Arab-Muslim hegemony,
the land returned to flourish again.

 

[rylah]

What's funny about Arab pogroms,
raping, murdering and expelling Jews from all holy cities?

Again, symptomatic of the entire conflict.

That's why all these "talks" about history always begin in the middle of the conflict,
and never start before some 50 years into Zionism.

Always AFTER the Arab pogroms.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews
⁜→ Hollie, et al,
(COMMENT)

This is just one example (of many) to the Arab Palestinians violating, as they have since early on in the conflict,

◈ The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I.​

​

◈ When a choice is possible, the military objective to be selected must be the one that presents the least danger to civilians as set forth in Article 57(3) of Additional Protocol I.​

​

◈ The prohibition of attacks directed against any civilian (outlined in Article 7, Rome Statutes).​

​

In terms of justice and acceptable behaviors, the Arab Palestinians have no real integrity. And the international community will gradually learn the true nature of the hostile Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R