Over 16.9 million people now carry guns for self-defense...and our crime rates went down...

[JoeB131]

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

Correlations doesn't equal causation.

 

[2aguy]

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

Correlations doesn't equal causation.

No...they don't....but we aren't talking about that, and you know it...but you need to distract from the truth.

The primary argument you anti gun extremists is that more guns = more gun crime. The fact that as more people not only own guns, but actually carry them, the crime rate not only didn't increase, it in fact went down, destroys any argument you have based on more guns, more crime......

And as to causation....there are more than a few studies that actually do show that armed people help lower the crime rate, and that they lower it for the general population, not just the people who would have been raped, robbed or murdered if they didn't have their guns.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So this document from the House of Commons is NRA propaganda?

House of Commons - Home Affairs - Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence

and I quote

Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction,

I noticed you tried to pull a fast one here. Okay, here's the WHOLE senetnce from your source.

Homicide statistics too vary widely. In some developing countries, the statistics are known to be far from complete. Figures for crimes labelled as homicide in various countries are simply not comparable. Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defence or otherwise. This reduces the apparent number of homicides by between 13 per cent and 15 per cent.

So a whopping 13% difference in the official number and the best number.

Now, there were two categories here, self defense and non-convictions. The thing is, the latter category is actually pretty small.

While one third of American homicides remain unsolved, the murder resolution rate in the UK is actually pretty high.

So again- 600 Homicides in the UK compared to 16,000 in the US?

We're doing it wrong.

So ?

You claimed they didn't adjust their homicide stats and that it was all NRA propaganda

you were wrong as usual

 

[JoeB131]

So ?

You claimed they didn't adjust their homicide stats and that it was all NRA propaganda

you were wrong as usual

No, you deceptively edited something to make it look like they were adjusting their stats when they really don't in any meaningful way.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So ?

You claimed they didn't adjust their homicide stats and that it was all NRA propaganda

you were wrong as usual

No, you deceptively edited something to make it look like they were adjusting their stats when they really don't in any meaningful way.

No you claimed it was all propaganda I never said anything about the meaning of anything only that the numbers are fudged.

And in my world a 15% fudging of the numbers is pretty significant. You would be the first one to whine if your pay was reduced by 15%

 

[charwin95]

Chicago has so much guns with so many people getting killed by guns. So you are wrong. That is correct more guns more crimes.
As I told you repeatedly------- You assumed that all gun owners are responsible citizens. Your only goal is to flood this country with more guns so you can make more money. Disgusting.

Do me a favor stop sending those nonsense link supporting your agenda.

Is English a second language for you?

Chicago punishes law abiding gun owners as opposed to criminals. Do you think they go to gun stores, gun shows?

No one has said that all gun owners are responsible citizens. The vast majority of law abiding citizens who own guns are responsible citizens.

Simply look at the cities with the highest crime and murder rates to find those with the harshest gun laws and cities run by Progressives for decades.

Criminals buy them from gun shows loopholes.

No...criminals do not buy them from gun show loopholes...criminals buy them from friends and family....people who can legally buy guns by passing background checks...or they get them from other criminals who got them from friends and family or stole them...

BULLSHIT. How the **** you know that?
I told you this before and I will tell you this again.
I went to a gun show in Texas and I proved this to myself that I can buy a gun without any check or anything as long as pay cash.

You are a LIAR.

As I said you posted so much lies over and over in several different threads about Trump. And just blasted you recently about lying. So what made you think you are telling the truth right now?

 

[2aguy]

Chicago has so much guns with so many people getting killed by guns. So you are wrong. That is correct more guns more crimes.
As I told you repeatedly------- You assumed that all gun owners are responsible citizens. Your only goal is to flood this country with more guns so you can make more money. Disgusting.

Do me a favor stop sending those nonsense link supporting your agenda.

Is English a second language for you?

Chicago punishes law abiding gun owners as opposed to criminals. Do you think they go to gun stores, gun shows?

No one has said that all gun owners are responsible citizens. The vast majority of law abiding citizens who own guns are responsible citizens.

Simply look at the cities with the highest crime and murder rates to find those with the harshest gun laws and cities run by Progressives for decades.

Criminals buy them from gun shows loopholes.

No...criminals do not buy them from gun show loopholes...criminals buy them from friends and family....people who can legally buy guns by passing background checks...or they get them from other criminals who got them from friends and family or stole them...

BULLSHIT. How the **** you know that?
I told you this before and I will tell you this again.
I went to a gun show in Texas and I proved this to myself that I can buy a gun without any check or anything as long as pay cash.

You are a LIAR.

As I said you posted so much lies over and over in several different threads about Trump. And just blasted you recently about lying. So what made you think you are telling the truth right now?

**** you shit head.....

Study Finds That Chicago Criminals Get Guns From Friends, Family

A survey conducted by researchers from Duke University and the University of Chicago found that Chicago criminals obtained their firearms almost exclusively from friends and family.

The survey, funded by the Joyce Foundation and set to be published in the October edition of Preventive Medicine, consisted of interviews with 99 inmates at Chicago’s Cook County Jail who had illegally possessed a gun within six months of their incarceration. It found that most criminals only acquired guns from people they knew and trusted.

----

The study found that due to fears of encountering undercover police officers attempting sting operations, a large majority of the criminals surveyed would only make illegal gun purchases from people they knew.

"In discussing the underground gun market in their neighborhoods, most respondents emphasized the importance of connections—prior relationships that could create sufficient trust to reassure the seller that the transaction would not create an unacceptable legal risk," the survey says. "

A majority of the primary guns (40 of the 48 for which we have detailed information on the source) were obtained from family, fellow gang members, or other social connections; the fraction is still higher for secondary guns."

"Only 2 of the 70 primary guns (3%) and no secondary guns were reported as purchased directly from a gun store."

The survey also found that criminals preferred handguns by a wide margin. Rifles, shotguns, and firearms that would be classified as "assault weapons" under Illinois law made up a small percentage of the guns criminals reported they had owned.

Additionally, the survey found that criminals kept their firearms for only a short period of time and had little knowledge of firearms.

The researchers noted that the findings may challenge what many believe about how criminals obtain firearms.

"Some of the pathways people are concerned about don’t seem so dominant," Harold Pollack, co-director of the University of Chicago’s Crime Lab and co-author of the survey, told the Chicago Sun-Times.
-------

"This proves what we have said all along," Alan Gottlieb, the founder of Second Amendment, told theFree Beacon. "Criminals don't go through background checks to acquire a gun. They don’t buy them at gun stores, gun shows, or on the Internet. They get them from family, friends, and fellow gang members. Gun control laws only affect lawful gun owners."

 

[2aguy]

Chicago has so much guns with so many people getting killed by guns. So you are wrong. That is correct more guns more crimes.
As I told you repeatedly------- You assumed that all gun owners are responsible citizens. Your only goal is to flood this country with more guns so you can make more money. Disgusting.

Do me a favor stop sending those nonsense link supporting your agenda.

Is English a second language for you?

Chicago punishes law abiding gun owners as opposed to criminals. Do you think they go to gun stores, gun shows?

No one has said that all gun owners are responsible citizens. The vast majority of law abiding citizens who own guns are responsible citizens.

Simply look at the cities with the highest crime and murder rates to find those with the harshest gun laws and cities run by Progressives for decades.

Criminals buy them from gun shows loopholes.

No...criminals do not buy them from gun show loopholes...criminals buy them from friends and family....people who can legally buy guns by passing background checks...or they get them from other criminals who got them from friends and family or stole them...

BULLSHIT. How the **** you know that?
I told you this before and I will tell you this again.
I went to a gun show in Texas and I proved this to myself that I can buy a gun without any check or anything as long as pay cash.

You are a LIAR.

As I said you posted so much lies over and over in several different threads about Trump. And just blasted you recently about lying. So what made you think you are telling the truth right now?

Moron....

The Facts about Gun Shows

Denver congresswoman Diana DeGette says that 70 percent of guns used in crimes come from gun shows. The true figure is rather different, according to the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the U.S. Department of Justice. According to an NIJ study released in December 1997 (“Homicide in Eight U.S. Cities,” a report that covers much more than homicide), only 2 percent of criminal guns come from gun shows.

-------

That finding is consistent with a mid-1980s study for the NIJ, which investigated the gun purchase and use habits of convicted felons in 12 state prisons. The study (later published as the book Armed and Considered Dangerous) found that gun shows were such a minor source of criminal gun acquisition that they were not even worth reporting as a separate figure.

At the most recent meeting of the American Society of Criminology, a study of youthful offenders in Michigan found that only 3 percent of the youths in the study had acquired their last handgun from a gun show. (Of course some criminal gun acquisition at gun shows is perpetrated by “straw purchasers” who are legal gun buyers acting as surrogates for the individual who wants the gun. Straw purchases have been federal felonies since 1968.)

According to the educational arm of HCI, the group’s own survey of major-city police chiefs found only 2 out of 48 who said that guns from gun shows (both “legal and illegal sales” according to the questionnaire) were a major problem in their city.

 

[charwin95]

Chicago has so much guns with so many people getting killed by guns. So you are wrong. That is correct more guns more crimes.
As I told you repeatedly------- You assumed that all gun owners are responsible citizens. Your only goal is to flood this country with more guns so you can make more money. Disgusting.

Do me a favor stop sending those nonsense link supporting your agenda.

Is English a second language for you?

Chicago punishes law abiding gun owners as opposed to criminals. Do you think they go to gun stores, gun shows?

No one has said that all gun owners are responsible citizens. The vast majority of law abiding citizens who own guns are responsible citizens.

Simply look at the cities with the highest crime and murder rates to find those with the harshest gun laws and cities run by Progressives for decades.

Criminals buy them from gun shows loopholes.

No...criminals do not buy them from gun show loopholes...criminals buy them from friends and family....people who can legally buy guns by passing background checks...or they get them from other criminals who got them from friends and family or stole them...

BULLSHIT. How the **** you know that?
I told you this before and I will tell you this again.
I went to a gun show in Texas and I proved this to myself that I can buy a gun without any check or anything as long as pay cash.

You are a LIAR.

As I said you posted so much lies over and over in several different threads about Trump. And just blasted you recently about lying. So what made you think you are telling the truth right now?

**** you shit head.....

Study Finds That Chicago Criminals Get Guns From Friends, Family

A survey conducted by researchers from Duke University and the University of Chicago found that Chicago criminals obtained their firearms almost exclusively from friends and family.

The survey, funded by the Joyce Foundation and set to be published in the October edition of Preventive Medicine, consisted of interviews with 99 inmates at Chicago’s Cook County Jail who had illegally possessed a gun within six months of their incarceration. It found that most criminals only acquired guns from people they knew and trusted.

----

The study found that due to fears of encountering undercover police officers attempting sting operations, a large majority of the criminals surveyed would only make illegal gun purchases from people they knew.

"In discussing the underground gun market in their neighborhoods, most respondents emphasized the importance of connections—prior relationships that could create sufficient trust to reassure the seller that the transaction would not create an unacceptable legal risk," the survey says. "

A majority of the primary guns (40 of the 48 for which we have detailed information on the source) were obtained from family, fellow gang members, or other social connections; the fraction is still higher for secondary guns."

"Only 2 of the 70 primary guns (3%) and no secondary guns were reported as purchased directly from a gun store."

The survey also found that criminals preferred handguns by a wide margin. Rifles, shotguns, and firearms that would be classified as "assault weapons" under Illinois law made up a small percentage of the guns criminals reported they had owned.

Additionally, the survey found that criminals kept their firearms for only a short period of time and had little knowledge of firearms.

The researchers noted that the findings may challenge what many believe about how criminals obtain firearms.

"Some of the pathways people are concerned about don’t seem so dominant," Harold Pollack, co-director of the University of Chicago’s Crime Lab and co-author of the survey, told the Chicago Sun-Times.
-------

"This proves what we have said all along," Alan Gottlieb, the founder of Second Amendment, told theFree Beacon. "Criminals don't go through background checks to acquire a gun. They don’t buy them at gun stores, gun shows, or on the Internet. They get them from family, friends, and fellow gang members. Gun control laws only affect lawful gun owners."

This is the problem idiot.
You posted so much lies in different and separated threads ------ What made you think I believe what you are posting now?

 

[charwin95]

Chicago has so much guns with so many people getting killed by guns. So you are wrong. That is correct more guns more crimes.
As I told you repeatedly------- You assumed that all gun owners are responsible citizens. Your only goal is to flood this country with more guns so you can make more money. Disgusting.

Do me a favor stop sending those nonsense link supporting your agenda.

Is English a second language for you?

Chicago punishes law abiding gun owners as opposed to criminals. Do you think they go to gun stores, gun shows?

No one has said that all gun owners are responsible citizens. The vast majority of law abiding citizens who own guns are responsible citizens.

Simply look at the cities with the highest crime and murder rates to find those with the harshest gun laws and cities run by Progressives for decades.

Criminals buy them from gun shows loopholes.

No...criminals do not buy them from gun show loopholes...criminals buy them from friends and family....people who can legally buy guns by passing background checks...or they get them from other criminals who got them from friends and family or stole them...

BULLSHIT. How the **** you know that?
I told you this before and I will tell you this again.
I went to a gun show in Texas and I proved this to myself that I can buy a gun without any check or anything as long as pay cash.

You are a LIAR.

As I said you posted so much lies over and over in several different threads about Trump. And just blasted you recently about lying. So what made you think you are telling the truth right now?

Moron....

The Facts about Gun Shows

Denver congresswoman Diana DeGette says that 70 percent of guns used in crimes come from gun shows. The true figure is rather different, according to the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the U.S. Department of Justice. According to an NIJ study released in December 1997 (“Homicide in Eight U.S. Cities,” a report that covers much more than homicide), only 2 percent of criminal guns come from gun shows.

-------

That finding is consistent with a mid-1980s study for the NIJ, which investigated the gun purchase and use habits of convicted felons in 12 state prisons. The study (later published as the book Armed and Considered Dangerous) found that gun shows were such a minor source of criminal gun acquisition that they were not even worth reporting as a separate figure.

At the most recent meeting of the American Society of Criminology, a study of youthful offenders in Michigan found that only 3 percent of the youths in the study had acquired their last handgun from a gun show. (Of course some criminal gun acquisition at gun shows is perpetrated by “straw purchasers” who are legal gun buyers acting as surrogates for the individual who wants the gun. Straw purchases have been federal felonies since 1968.)

According to the educational arm of HCI, the group’s own survey of major-city police chiefs found only 2 out of 48 who said that guns from gun shows (both “legal and illegal sales” according to the questionnaire) were a major problem in their city.

Don't expect me to read all these lies.

Do you have any decency left in your worthless soul.

 

[2aguy]

Is English a second language for you?

Chicago punishes law abiding gun owners as opposed to criminals. Do you think they go to gun stores, gun shows?

No one has said that all gun owners are responsible citizens. The vast majority of law abiding citizens who own guns are responsible citizens.

Simply look at the cities with the highest crime and murder rates to find those with the harshest gun laws and cities run by Progressives for decades.

Criminals buy them from gun shows loopholes.

No...criminals do not buy them from gun show loopholes...criminals buy them from friends and family....people who can legally buy guns by passing background checks...or they get them from other criminals who got them from friends and family or stole them...

BULLSHIT. How the **** you know that?
I told you this before and I will tell you this again.
I went to a gun show in Texas and I proved this to myself that I can buy a gun without any check or anything as long as pay cash.

You are a LIAR.

As I said you posted so much lies over and over in several different threads about Trump. And just blasted you recently about lying. So what made you think you are telling the truth right now?

Moron....

The Facts about Gun Shows

Denver congresswoman Diana DeGette says that 70 percent of guns used in crimes come from gun shows. The true figure is rather different, according to the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the U.S. Department of Justice. According to an NIJ study released in December 1997 (“Homicide in Eight U.S. Cities,” a report that covers much more than homicide), only 2 percent of criminal guns come from gun shows.

-------

That finding is consistent with a mid-1980s study for the NIJ, which investigated the gun purchase and use habits of convicted felons in 12 state prisons. The study (later published as the book Armed and Considered Dangerous) found that gun shows were such a minor source of criminal gun acquisition that they were not even worth reporting as a separate figure.

At the most recent meeting of the American Society of Criminology, a study of youthful offenders in Michigan found that only 3 percent of the youths in the study had acquired their last handgun from a gun show. (Of course some criminal gun acquisition at gun shows is perpetrated by “straw purchasers” who are legal gun buyers acting as surrogates for the individual who wants the gun. Straw purchases have been federal felonies since 1968.)

According to the educational arm of HCI, the group’s own survey of major-city police chiefs found only 2 out of 48 who said that guns from gun shows (both “legal and illegal sales” according to the questionnaire) were a major problem in their city.

Don't expect me to read all these lies.

Do you have any decency left in your worthless soul.

Shit head...read the link......moron.

 

[2aguy]

Is English a second language for you?

Chicago punishes law abiding gun owners as opposed to criminals. Do you think they go to gun stores, gun shows?

No one has said that all gun owners are responsible citizens. The vast majority of law abiding citizens who own guns are responsible citizens.

Simply look at the cities with the highest crime and murder rates to find those with the harshest gun laws and cities run by Progressives for decades.

Criminals buy them from gun shows loopholes.

No...criminals do not buy them from gun show loopholes...criminals buy them from friends and family....people who can legally buy guns by passing background checks...or they get them from other criminals who got them from friends and family or stole them...

BULLSHIT. How the **** you know that?
I told you this before and I will tell you this again.
I went to a gun show in Texas and I proved this to myself that I can buy a gun without any check or anything as long as pay cash.

You are a LIAR.

As I said you posted so much lies over and over in several different threads about Trump. And just blasted you recently about lying. So what made you think you are telling the truth right now?

**** you shit head.....

Study Finds That Chicago Criminals Get Guns From Friends, Family

A survey conducted by researchers from Duke University and the University of Chicago found that Chicago criminals obtained their firearms almost exclusively from friends and family.

The survey, funded by the Joyce Foundation and set to be published in the October edition of Preventive Medicine, consisted of interviews with 99 inmates at Chicago’s Cook County Jail who had illegally possessed a gun within six months of their incarceration. It found that most criminals only acquired guns from people they knew and trusted.

----

The study found that due to fears of encountering undercover police officers attempting sting operations, a large majority of the criminals surveyed would only make illegal gun purchases from people they knew.

"In discussing the underground gun market in their neighborhoods, most respondents emphasized the importance of connections—prior relationships that could create sufficient trust to reassure the seller that the transaction would not create an unacceptable legal risk," the survey says. "

A majority of the primary guns (40 of the 48 for which we have detailed information on the source) were obtained from family, fellow gang members, or other social connections; the fraction is still higher for secondary guns."

"Only 2 of the 70 primary guns (3%) and no secondary guns were reported as purchased directly from a gun store."

The survey also found that criminals preferred handguns by a wide margin. Rifles, shotguns, and firearms that would be classified as "assault weapons" under Illinois law made up a small percentage of the guns criminals reported they had owned.

Additionally, the survey found that criminals kept their firearms for only a short period of time and had little knowledge of firearms.

The researchers noted that the findings may challenge what many believe about how criminals obtain firearms.

"Some of the pathways people are concerned about don’t seem so dominant," Harold Pollack, co-director of the University of Chicago’s Crime Lab and co-author of the survey, told the Chicago Sun-Times.
-------

"This proves what we have said all along," Alan Gottlieb, the founder of Second Amendment, told theFree Beacon. "Criminals don't go through background checks to acquire a gun. They don’t buy them at gun stores, gun shows, or on the Internet. They get them from family, friends, and fellow gang members. Gun control laws only affect lawful gun owners."

This is the problem idiot.
You posted so much lies in different and separated threads ------ What made you think I believe what you are posting now?

You have the links that show you are a clueless moron.......so now you have to call me names.....the tactic of a real doofus.....