Our Kennedy.

[Sallow]

(Pause for effect)

Pause for what effect?

You folks were calling him a communist.

By the way, you folks STILL TO THIS DAY call liberal communists.

Some of our MOST ANTI-COMMUNIST Presidents, were Liberal.

Have I ever called JFK a communist? Have I called Obama a communist? Have I called YOU a communist? Perhaps you should stop lying now.

To boot, some of our most anti communist presidents were Conservative. Your point? Everyone hates Communism.

Then perhaps..you should convince your conservative friends that almost all American liberals are stanchly anti-communist.

 

[Sallow]

Acceptance of the New York Liberal Party Nomination
September 14, 1960


What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal."



But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind,



someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions,



someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."


But first, I would like to say what I understand the word "Liberal" to mean and explain in the process why I consider myself to be a "Liberal," and what it means in the presidential election of 1960.


Accepting the NY Liberal Party Nomination, 1960 . JFK . WGBH American Experience | PBS

Spare me your citations.

"NY Liberal Party"? Need I repeat myself?

Yes..that was Kennedy..accepting the Liberal Party nomination.

 

[Stephanie]

The Kennedy clan is full of criminals from murders, rapist, drug addicts, etc etc

Joe Kennedy the daddy was a commie sympathizer and made their money from bootlegging..

Jfk was nothing more special than any other President...He was assassinated...that's it and it was

probably done by his own party

Reagan was shot and almost died, that didn't make him special either

 

[TemplarKormac]

What you need to do is ignore what I just showed you for the cognitive dissonance to not be so uncomfortable.

I ignored it because I have substantive proof to the contrary. Democrats were way more conservative back in the 1960s than they are now. The party you belong to has moved significantly to the far left side of the ideological spectrum, whereas Democrats of that era were left of center. Republicans of that era were right of center, and ironically pushed for and backed many of the policies Kennedy proposed. Bipartisanship was a regular occurrence in most cases back then.

What you need to do is ignore history to make the butthurt not seem so uncomfortable.

Yeah..some of them were.

We called them "DixieCrats".

Sorry, Kennedy belonged to the same party those DixieCrats belonged to. The DixieCrats were Southern Traditionalist, White Supremacists. Or normally what you yourself would attribute to Republicans today. And no, I am not accusing Kennedy of being one of them.

 

[Bfgrn]

So liberals....how does JFK's speech "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" fit into your welfare world???

Perfectly...

It is a call to PUBLIC service, not private greed.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
President John F. Kennedy

Question:

If you tax the rich into oblivion, who will save the poor? Who will help them (the poor) prosper?

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.

PROOF...

Taxing the rich into 'oblivion'...

Suppose they say they are going to raise taxes on incomes above $250K. People seem to think that this means if you earn $250K plus a dollar, that you owe an additional tax on the entire $250K. This is not correct.

Here is how it really works. What happens is that the first $250K is taxed just like it has been, but anything that is made over $250K -- and only the amount over $250K -- is then taxed at the higher rate. The tax on the amount below $250K is not changed.

Example: Suppose the tax increase is 5% on income over $250K. This means that a person who reports income of $250K plus one dollar will be taxed an additional 5 cents. FIVE CENTS!

Yes, that's right, if it is 5% they are talking about then it means a 5 cent tax increase on people who make $250,001.

Let me repeat that. If you make $250,001, and they raise taxes 5% on people who make over $250K, then you will have to pay 5 cents more. Five cents. F.I.V.E. C.E.N.T.S. That is what people are so upset about. 5 cents.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Acceptance of the New York Liberal Party Nomination
September 14, 1960


What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal."



But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind,



someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions,



someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."


But first, I would like to say what I understand the word "Liberal" to mean and explain in the process why I consider myself to be a "Liberal," and what it means in the presidential election of 1960.


Accepting the NY Liberal Party Nomination, 1960 . JFK . WGBH American Experience | PBS

Spare me your citations.

"NY Liberal Party"? Need I repeat myself?

Yes..that was Kennedy..accepting the Liberal Party nomination.

And this is him being conservative:

Kennedy

1) Expanded our military

2) Sanctioned multiple attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro

3) Allowed U-2 spying on Russia's missile sites

4) Expanded the space program

5) Was anti-Communist

6) In 1963 before his death he:

• a) Cut the corporate tax rate from 52 to 47%
  
  
• b) Cut income taxes from a range of 20-91% to 14-65%

7) Advocated pro-growth economic policy in general

8) Was pro-Israel

9) Founded the US-Israeli military alliance

10) Advocated a coup of the Iraqi government

11) Launched the invasion of the Bay of Pigs

12) Signed Proclamation 3504 authorizing the naval quarantine of Communist Cuba

So, were any of these things liberal by your standards? The irony here is that he seems awfully and eerily similar to Bush is a lot of ways. Especially his attitudes toward Iraq, his economic policies, his attitude towards Israel and his military strategy overall. His campaign against communism was similar in scope to Bush's War on Terrorism. You can't say that the Space program was a liberal thing, since many presidents built upon it, the first moon landing in July 1969 happened on Nixon's watch. You have no clue how conservative he was. In fact had he been around today, he'd have more in common with Republicans than Democrats.

 

[Stephanie]

Perfectly...

It is a call to PUBLIC service, not private greed.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
President John F. Kennedy

Question:

If you tax the rich into oblivion, who will save the poor? Who will help them (the poor) prosper?

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.

PROOF...

Taxing the rich into 'oblivion'...

Suppose they say they are going to raise taxes on incomes above $250K. People seem to think that this means if you earn $250K plus a dollar, that you owe an additional tax on the entire $250K. This is not correct.

Here is how it really works. What happens is that the first $250K is taxed just like it has been, but anything that is made over $250K -- and only the amount over $250K -- is then taxed at the higher rate. The tax on the amount below $250K is not changed.

Example: Suppose the tax increase is 5% on income over $250K. This means that a person who reports income of $250K plus one dollar will be taxed an additional 5 cents. FIVE CENTS!

Yes, that's right, if it is 5% they are talking about then it means a 5 cent tax increase on people who make $250,001.

Let me repeat that. If you make $250,001, and they raise taxes 5% on people who make over $250K, then you will have to pay 5 cents more. Five cents. F.I.V.E. C.E.N.T.S. That is what people are so upset about. 5 cents.

yeah right, that's your made up stupidity...why would you want everyone to see it?
shoot the high horse you liberals ride on...it's worn out

everything you liberals think about HELPING OTHERS is done by the force of government and with taxation..it's not done on your OWN FREE WILL

 

[TemplarKormac]

Perfectly...

It is a call to PUBLIC service, not private greed.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
President John F. Kennedy

Question:

If you tax the rich into oblivion, who will save the poor? Who will help them (the poor) prosper?

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.

PROOF...

Taxing the rich into 'oblivion'...

Suppose they say they are going to raise taxes on incomes above $250K. People seem to think that this means if you earn $250K plus a dollar, that you owe an additional tax on the entire $250K. This is not correct.

Here is how it really works. What happens is that the first $250K is taxed just like it has been, but anything that is made over $250K -- and only the amount over $250K -- is then taxed at the higher rate. The tax on the amount below $250K is not changed.

Example: Suppose the tax increase is 5% on income over $250K. This means that a person who reports income of $250K plus one dollar will be taxed an additional 5 cents. FIVE CENTS!

Yes, that's right, if it is 5% they are talking about then it means a 5 cent tax increase on people who make $250,001.

Let me repeat that. If you make $250,001, and they raise taxes 5% on people who make over $250K, then you will have to pay 5 cents more. Five cents. F.I.V.E. C.E.N.T.S. That is what people are so upset about. 5 cents.

Uhh, that bolded statement just invalidates your entire argument. It wouldn't hurt you to know that Conservatives are more generous with their money than Liberals are. Ironically.

RealClearPolitics - Articles - Conservatives More Liberal Givers

 

[Bfgrn]

Question:

If you tax the rich into oblivion, who will save the poor? Who will help them (the poor) prosper?

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.

PROOF...

Taxing the rich into 'oblivion'...

Suppose they say they are going to raise taxes on incomes above $250K. People seem to think that this means if you earn $250K plus a dollar, that you owe an additional tax on the entire $250K. This is not correct.

Here is how it really works. What happens is that the first $250K is taxed just like it has been, but anything that is made over $250K -- and only the amount over $250K -- is then taxed at the higher rate. The tax on the amount below $250K is not changed.

Example: Suppose the tax increase is 5% on income over $250K. This means that a person who reports income of $250K plus one dollar will be taxed an additional 5 cents. FIVE CENTS!

Yes, that's right, if it is 5% they are talking about then it means a 5 cent tax increase on people who make $250,001.

Let me repeat that. If you make $250,001, and they raise taxes 5% on people who make over $250K, then you will have to pay 5 cents more. Five cents. F.I.V.E. C.E.N.T.S. That is what people are so upset about. 5 cents.

yeah right, that's your made up stupidity...why would you want everyone to see it?
shoot the high horse you liberals ride on...it's worn out

It amazes me that you folks on the right are so oblivious to those truths...they manifest every single day on this board.

 

[Sallow]

Spare me your citations.

"NY Liberal Party"? Need I repeat myself?

Yes..that was Kennedy..accepting the Liberal Party nomination.

And this is him being conservative:

Kennedy

1) Expanded our military

2) Sanctioned multiple attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro

3) Allowed U-2 spying on Russia's missile sites

4) Expanded the space program

5) Was anti-Communist

6) In 1963 before his death he:

• a) Cut the corporate tax rate from 52 to 47%
  
  
• b) Cut income taxes from a range of 20-91% to 14-65%

7) Advocated pro-growth economic policy in general

8) Was pro-Israel

9) Founded the US-Israeli military alliance

10) Advocated a coup of the Iraqi government

11) Launched the invasion of the Bay of Pigs

12) Signed Proclamation 3504 authorizing the naval quarantine of Communist Cuba

So, were any of these things liberal by your standards? The irony here is that he seems awfully and eerily similar to Bush is a lot of ways. Especially his attitudes toward Iraq, his economic policies, his attitude towards Israel and his military strategy overall. His campaign against communism was similar in scope to Bush's War on Terrorism. You can't say that the Space program was a liberal thing, since many presidents built upon it, the first moon landing in July 1969 happened on Nixon's watch. You have no clue how conservative he was. In fact had he been around today, he'd have more in common with Republicans than Democrats.

Eyeah..they were.

Conservatives were a great deal more isolationist in the 60s and Liberals wanted to export Democracy. That flipped with Nixon.

 

[Stephanie]

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.

PROOF...

Taxing the rich into 'oblivion'...

Suppose they say they are going to raise taxes on incomes above $250K. People seem to think that this means if you earn $250K plus a dollar, that you owe an additional tax on the entire $250K. This is not correct.

Here is how it really works. What happens is that the first $250K is taxed just like it has been, but anything that is made over $250K -- and only the amount over $250K -- is then taxed at the higher rate. The tax on the amount below $250K is not changed.

Example: Suppose the tax increase is 5% on income over $250K. This means that a person who reports income of $250K plus one dollar will be taxed an additional 5 cents. FIVE CENTS!

Yes, that's right, if it is 5% they are talking about then it means a 5 cent tax increase on people who make $250,001.

Let me repeat that. If you make $250,001, and they raise taxes 5% on people who make over $250K, then you will have to pay 5 cents more. Five cents. F.I.V.E. C.E.N.T.S. That is what people are so upset about. 5 cents.

yeah right, that's your made up stupidity...why would you want everyone to see it?
shoot the high horse you liberals ride on...it's worn out

It amazes me that you folks on the right are so oblivious to those truths...they manifest every single day on this board.

everything you liberals think about HELPING OTHERS is done by the force of government and with taxation..it's not done on your OWN FREE WILL

So shoot your all frikken high horse, you might think those things of YOURSELVES, but you aren't..

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yes..that was Kennedy..accepting the Liberal Party nomination.

And this is him being conservative:

Kennedy

1) Expanded our military

2) Sanctioned multiple attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro

3) Allowed U-2 spying on Russia's missile sites

4) Expanded the space program

5) Was anti-Communist

6) In 1963 before his death he:

• a) Cut the corporate tax rate from 52 to 47%
  
  
• b) Cut income taxes from a range of 20-91% to 14-65%

7) Advocated pro-growth economic policy in general

8) Was pro-Israel

9) Founded the US-Israeli military alliance

10) Advocated a coup of the Iraqi government

11) Launched the invasion of the Bay of Pigs

12) Signed Proclamation 3504 authorizing the naval quarantine of Communist Cuba

So, were any of these things liberal by your standards? The irony here is that he seems awfully and eerily similar to Bush is a lot of ways. Especially his attitudes toward Iraq, his economic policies, his attitude towards Israel and his military strategy overall. His campaign against communism was similar in scope to Bush's War on Terrorism. You can't say that the Space program was a liberal thing, since many presidents built upon it, the first moon landing in July 1969 happened on Nixon's watch. You have no clue how conservative he was. In fact had he been around today, he'd have more in common with Republicans than Democrats.

Eyeah..they were.

Conservatives were a great deal more isolationist in the 60s and Liberals wanted to export Democracy. That flipped with Nixon.

Bwa ha.

Nice cop out Sallow. Kennedy was highly interventionist. Read the Kennedy Doctrine and get back to me. And as a side note, who entered the US into WWII?

Next.

 

[Bfgrn]

And this is him being conservative:

Eyeah..they were.

Conservatives were a great deal more isolationist in the 60s and Liberals wanted to export Democracy. That flipped with Nixon.

Bwa ha.

Nice cop out Sallow. Kennedy was highly interventionist. Read the Kennedy Doctrine and get back to me. And as a side note, who entered the US into WWII?

Next.

Did JFK send in US troops during the Bay of Pigs invasion?
Did JFK send in US troops during the Cuban missile crisis??
Did JFK send in troops when the Berlin Wall went up???

At EVERY turn, JFK was NON-interventionist.

And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy

 

[Bfgrn]

yeah right, that's your made up stupidity...why would you want everyone to see it?
shoot the high horse you liberals ride on...it's worn out

It amazes me that you folks on the right are so oblivious to those truths...they manifest every single day on this board.

everything you liberals think about HELPING OTHERS is done by the force of government and with taxation..it's not done on your OWN FREE WILL

So shoot your all frikken high horse, you might think those things of YOURSELVES, but you aren't..

Ah, THE Arthur Brooks study

Arthur Brooks writes: "When it comes to giving or not giving, conservatives and liberals look a lot alike. Conservative people are a percentage point or two more likely to give money each year than liberal people, but a percentage point or so less likely to volunteer [citing the 2002 General Social Survey (GSS) and the 2000 Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (SCCBS)]". (pp. 21-22)

So, according to THE Arthur Brooks study: conservatives believe in the giving of mammon (money) and liberals believe in the giving of themselves.

 

[Redfish]

Yes..that was Kennedy..accepting the Liberal Party nomination.

And this is him being conservative:

Kennedy

1) Expanded our military

2) Sanctioned multiple attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro

3) Allowed U-2 spying on Russia's missile sites

4) Expanded the space program

5) Was anti-Communist

6) In 1963 before his death he:

• a) Cut the corporate tax rate from 52 to 47%
  
  
• b) Cut income taxes from a range of 20-91% to 14-65%

7) Advocated pro-growth economic policy in general

8) Was pro-Israel

9) Founded the US-Israeli military alliance

10) Advocated a coup of the Iraqi government

11) Launched the invasion of the Bay of Pigs

12) Signed Proclamation 3504 authorizing the naval quarantine of Communist Cuba

So, were any of these things liberal by your standards? The irony here is that he seems awfully and eerily similar to Bush is a lot of ways. Especially his attitudes toward Iraq, his economic policies, his attitude towards Israel and his military strategy overall. His campaign against communism was similar in scope to Bush's War on Terrorism. You can't say that the Space program was a liberal thing, since many presidents built upon it, the first moon landing in July 1969 happened on Nixon's watch. You have no clue how conservative he was. In fact had he been around today, he'd have more in common with Republicans than Democrats.

Eyeah..they were.

Conservatives were a great deal more isolationist in the 60s and Liberals wanted to export Democracy. That flipped with Nixon.

Do you have TV on your planet?

 

[Dragonlady]

"Ask not what your country can do for you" was Kennedy's call to young people to serve in the Peace Corps at slave wages for two years. It was not a rant against expecting government handouts, but a call to public service.

The fact that conservatives don't understand this and try to pervert into something it isn't is all you need to know about how they continually try to pervert liberal idealogy.

 

[Stephanie]

"Ask not what your country can do for you" was Kennedy's call to young people to serve in the Peace Corps at slave wages for two years. It was not a rant against expecting government handouts, but a call to public service.

The fact that conservatives don't understand this and try to pervert into something it isn't is all you need to know about how they continually try to pervert liberal idealogy.

oh brother...here we go again, we just don't understand what it means

we don't have to "pervert" liberal ideology...

it is perverted and harmful to others, where it make's them dependents of government instead of preaching, standing on their own as free people in a free country

it's that slave mentality of liberal ideology..what better way for them to have CONTROL over people

 

[Dragonlady]

we don't have to "pervert" liberal ideology...

it is perverted and harmful to others, where it make's them dependents of government instead of preaching, standing on their own as free people in a free country

it's that slave mentality of liberal ideology..what better way for them to have CONTROL over people

You have it backwards. It is conservative economic policies which created the "takers". Bush is the guy who came up with "earned income credits" because he didn't want to raise the minimum wage. Food stamp recipients tripled under Ronald Reagan, and wages for the working class stagnanted from 1980 onward.

The conservative media has been villifed the poor since Reagan's "welfare queen" lie of the 1980's to distract the gullible and the stupid from the real sources of poverty, all the while transferring the wealth of the nation to the richest individuals and corporations.

Liberal idealogy seeks to level the playing field, and give everyone an equal opportunity to succeed. Conservative policies tilt the playing field to favour the rich. If you're stupid enough to believe that Republicans want smaller government and a balanced budget, despite all reasonable evidence to the contrary, you truly are deserving of the "sheeple" label you keep trying to pin on liberals.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Eyeah..they were.

Conservatives were a great deal more isolationist in the 60s and Liberals wanted to export Democracy. That flipped with Nixon.

Bwa ha.

Nice cop out Sallow. Kennedy was highly interventionist. Read the Kennedy Doctrine and get back to me. And as a side note, who entered the US into WWII?

Next.

Did JFK send in US troops during the Bay of Pigs invasion?
Did JFK send in US troops during the Cuban missile crisis??
Did JFK send in troops when the Berlin Wall went up???

At EVERY turn, JFK was NON-interventionist.

And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy

He was very much interventionist. He sent an additional thousand advisors into vietnam breaking the earlier geneva contract. LBJ continued his dream by sending/forcing troops in the hundreds of thousands into the area. We never had any business there.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Bwa ha.

Nice cop out Sallow. Kennedy was highly interventionist. Read the Kennedy Doctrine and get back to me. And as a side note, who entered the US into WWII?

Next.

Did JFK send in US troops during the Bay of Pigs invasion?
Did JFK send in US troops during the Cuban missile crisis??
Did JFK send in troops when the Berlin Wall went up???

At EVERY turn, JFK was NON-interventionist.

And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy

He was very much interventionist. He sent an additional thousand advisors into vietnam breaking the earlier geneva contract. LBJ continued his dream by sending/forcing troops in the hundreds of thousands into the area. We never had any business there.

or The Cuban Project