Origin of life Thread: Chemistry of seabed's hot vents could explain emergence of life

[orogenicman]

This thread is dedicated to the scientific exploration of the origin of life on Earth. This is my first contribution, which describes new research into the spontaneous production of organic molecules requisite for life. Feel free to contribute other examples.

Origin of life Chemistry of seabed s hot vents could explain emergence of life -- ScienceDaily

Date:
April 27, 2015
Source:
University College London
Summary:
Hot vents on the seabed could have spontaneously produced the organic molecules necessary for life, according to new research. The study shows how the surfaces of mineral particles inside hydrothermal vents have similar chemical properties to enzymes, the biological molecules that govern chemical reactions in living organisms. This means that vents are able to create simple carbon-based molecules, such as methanol and formic acid, out of the dissolved CO2 in the water.

This is more evidence that the building blocks of life were likely present and forming in these environments before life emerged on Earth.

What our research proves is that these vents also have the chemical properties that encourage these molecules to recombine into molecules usually associated with living organisms

More at the link.

Think life starts pretty easily where ever chemistry is favorable to it. Intelligent life on the other hand using Earth's example is exceedingly rare.

I suspect planets are teeming with life all over the universe. But intelligent life seems something of an accident. Of course the law of large numbers is on our side and even a freak occurence as happened here could happen millions of times across the whole universe.

Example of life being created from non living things?

Stay tuned.

I just researched it. Turns out it hasn't happened. That's so scientific of you to believe in something that has never actually been observed. You logical people you not believing in magic.

You researched it in five minutes. My but aren't you the thorough one? Well, then all the scientists can go home because you've already figured it out. Beer thirty time.

 

[SUPERMAN1929]

This thread is dedicated to the scientific exploration of the origin of life on Earth. This is my first contribution, which describes new research into the spontaneous production of organic molecules requisite for life. Feel free to contribute other examples.

Origin of life Chemistry of seabed s hot vents could explain emergence of life -- ScienceDaily

This is more evidence that the building blocks of life were likely present and forming in these environments before life emerged on Earth.

More at the link.

Think life starts pretty easily where ever chemistry is favorable to it. Intelligent life on the other hand using Earth's example is exceedingly rare.

I suspect planets are teeming with life all over the universe. But intelligent life seems something of an accident. Of course the law of large numbers is on our side and even a freak occurence as happened here could happen millions of times across the whole universe.

Example of life being created from non living things?

Stay tuned.

I just researched it. Turns out it hasn't happened. That's so scientific of you to believe in something that has never actually been observed. You logical people you not believing in magic.

You researched it in five minutes. My but aren't you the thorough one? Well, then all the scientists can go home because you've already figured it out. Beer thirty time.

You don't think that if scientists observed life being created from nothing in any sort of an experiment or observation it wouldn't be posted everywhere? Scientists post irrelevant findings and they end up on the news.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This is what the denialists have to resort to.

It could have been worse...it could have been communism.

OH NO, WORKERS OWNING PRODUCTION? A STATELESS, CLASSLESS, MONEYLESS SOCIETY WITH EXCESS SURPLUS? RUNNNNNN

That's the lie that it's sold on; the truth always turns out that the rulers own everything and the only 2 classes of non-rulers are: slaves and fertilizer

You'd have to be a complete Idiot not to know that by now

 

[orogenicman]

Think life starts pretty easily where ever chemistry is favorable to it. Intelligent life on the other hand using Earth's example is exceedingly rare.

I suspect planets are teeming with life all over the universe. But intelligent life seems something of an accident. Of course the law of large numbers is on our side and even a freak occurence as happened here could happen millions of times across the whole universe.

Example of life being created from non living things?

Stay tuned.

I just researched it. Turns out it hasn't happened. That's so scientific of you to believe in something that has never actually been observed. You logical people you not believing in magic.

You researched it in five minutes. My but aren't you the thorough one? Well, then all the scientists can go home because you've already figured it out. Beer thirty time.

You don't think that if scientists observed life being created from nothing in any sort of an experiment or observation it wouldn't be posted everywhere? Scientists post irrelevant findings and they end up on the news.

As a scientist, I can easily spot a straw man argument - yours, for instance.

 

[SUPERMAN1929]

Example of life being created from non living things?

Stay tuned.

I just researched it. Turns out it hasn't happened. That's so scientific of you to believe in something that has never actually been observed. You logical people you not believing in magic.

You researched it in five minutes. My but aren't you the thorough one? Well, then all the scientists can go home because you've already figured it out. Beer thirty time.

You don't think that if scientists observed life being created from nothing in any sort of an experiment or observation it wouldn't be posted everywhere? Scientists post irrelevant findings and they end up on the news.

As a scientist, I can easily spot a straw man argument - yours, for instance.

Just show me the link where life actually came from nothing. I promise you that you won't find it unless it's a joke site or something. It would be a famous experiment and it would be done over and over again to show that life can come from nothing. You're stupid if you think that such an experiment exists.

 

[orogenicman]

Stay tuned.

I just researched it. Turns out it hasn't happened. That's so scientific of you to believe in something that has never actually been observed. You logical people you not believing in magic.

You researched it in five minutes. My but aren't you the thorough one? Well, then all the scientists can go home because you've already figured it out. Beer thirty time.

You don't think that if scientists observed life being created from nothing in any sort of an experiment or observation it wouldn't be posted everywhere? Scientists post irrelevant findings and they end up on the news.

As a scientist, I can easily spot a straw man argument - yours, for instance.

Just show me the link where life actually came from nothing. I promise you that you won't find it unless it's a joke site or something. It would be a famous experiment and it would be done over and over again to show that life can come from nothing. You're stupid if you think that such an experiment exists.

Show me where anyone in this thread (other than you) ever made the claim that life came from nothing. Again, you're making a straw man argument. If you don't know what that means, then you don't have a hand to play in this discussion.

 

[Hollie]

This thread is dedicated to the scientific exploration of the origin of life on Earth. This is my first contribution, which describes new research into the spontaneous production of organic molecules requisite for life. Feel free to contribute other examples.

Origin of life Chemistry of seabed s hot vents could explain emergence of life -- ScienceDaily

Date:
April 27, 2015
Source:
University College London
Summary:
Hot vents on the seabed could have spontaneously produced the organic molecules necessary for life, according to new research. The study shows how the surfaces of mineral particles inside hydrothermal vents have similar chemical properties to enzymes, the biological molecules that govern chemical reactions in living organisms. This means that vents are able to create simple carbon-based molecules, such as methanol and formic acid, out of the dissolved CO2 in the water.

This is more evidence that the building blocks of life were likely present and forming in these environments before life emerged on Earth.

What our research proves is that these vents also have the chemical properties that encourage these molecules to recombine into molecules usually associated with living organisms

More at the link.

Think life starts pretty easily where ever chemistry is favorable to it. Intelligent life on the other hand using Earth's example is exceedingly rare.

I suspect planets are teeming with life all over the universe. But intelligent life seems something of an accident. Of course the law of large numbers is on our side and even a freak occurence as happened here could happen millions of times across the whole universe.

Example of life being created from non living things?

Stay tuned.

I just researched it. Turns out it hasn't happened. That's so scientific of you to believe in something that has never actually been observed. You logical people you not believing in magic.

You zealots are a scary lot. What's interesting about the fundamentalists profound hatred for science is that "the gawds did it" is rendered more pointless by the day.

Undersea vents and the life that sprung up around them were a "watershed" discovery in that life can thrive absent photosynthesis.

Secondly, the likely discovery of life off this planet will be devastating to the fundies as there is really no way to resolve that phenomenon via the religious articles.

And btw, we know with absolute certainty that life came from non-life. That fact that life exists proves that. Either life was magically proofed into existence by one or more gawds (which does nothing to negate biological evolution), or life began in completely natural ways, clearly the most likely.

 

[SUPERMAN1929]

I just researched it. Turns out it hasn't happened. That's so scientific of you to believe in something that has never actually been observed. You logical people you not believing in magic.

You researched it in five minutes. My but aren't you the thorough one? Well, then all the scientists can go home because you've already figured it out. Beer thirty time.

You don't think that if scientists observed life being created from nothing in any sort of an experiment or observation it wouldn't be posted everywhere? Scientists post irrelevant findings and they end up on the news.

As a scientist, I can easily spot a straw man argument - yours, for instance.

Just show me the link where life actually came from nothing. I promise you that you won't find it unless it's a joke site or something. It would be a famous experiment and it would be done over and over again to show that life can come from nothing. You're stupid if you think that such an experiment exists.

Show me where anyone in this thread (other than you) ever made the claim that life came from nothing. Again, you're making a straw man argument. If you don't know what that means, then you don't have a hand to play in this discussion.

I'm calling evolutionists thinking that their pitiful theories theories are fact stupid. They lack evidence and claim they have it. They put out so much info that no one can go through it all unless they don't do anything productive for society and then make crazy assumptions about how things "had to have happened".

 

[SUPERMAN1929]

This thread is dedicated to the scientific exploration of the origin of life on Earth. This is my first contribution, which describes new research into the spontaneous production of organic molecules requisite for life. Feel free to contribute other examples.

Origin of life Chemistry of seabed s hot vents could explain emergence of life -- ScienceDaily

This is more evidence that the building blocks of life were likely present and forming in these environments before life emerged on Earth.

More at the link.

Think life starts pretty easily where ever chemistry is favorable to it. Intelligent life on the other hand using Earth's example is exceedingly rare.

I suspect planets are teeming with life all over the universe. But intelligent life seems something of an accident. Of course the law of large numbers is on our side and even a freak occurence as happened here could happen millions of times across the whole universe.

Example of life being created from non living things?

Stay tuned.

I just researched it. Turns out it hasn't happened. That's so scientific of you to believe in something that has never actually been observed. You logical people you not believing in magic.

You zealots are a scary lot. What's interesting about the fundamentalists profound hatred for science is that "the gawds did it" is rendered more pointless by the day.

Undersea vents and the life that sprung up around them were a "watershed" discovery in that life can thrive absent photosynthesis.

Secondly, the likely discovery of life off this planet will be devastating to the fundies as there is really no way to resolve that phenomenon via the religious articles.

And btw, we know with absolute certainty that life came from non-life. That fact that life exists proves that. Either life was magically proofed into existence by one or more gawds (which does nothing to negate biological evolution), or life began in completely natural ways, clearly the most likely.

Suddenly not believing in a theory makes you anti science. Doesn't there need to be someone who questions these scientists work instead of just trying to prove it correct? Your logic seems against the questioning open mind. Evolutionists pretend that you must accept evolution in order to study science when that is just a blatant lie. I've never seen a situation where believing in your version of evolution would help me in the least bit.

I believe in a god because of laws such as conservation of energy and that life doesn't come from non life. It had to have happened right? Give me a more rational explanation that made all the matter in today's world?

 

[SUPERMAN1929]

You don't think that if scientists observed life being created from nothing in any sort of an experiment or observation it wouldn't be posted everywhere? Scientists post irrelevant findings and they end up on the news.

As a scientist, I can easily spot a straw man argument - yours, for instance.

Just show me the link where life actually came from nothing. I promise you that you won't find it unless it's a joke site or something. It would be a famous experiment and it would be done over and over again to show that life can come from nothing. You're stupid if you think that such an experiment exists.

Show me where anyone in this thread (other than you) ever made the claim that life came from nothing. Again, you're making a straw man argument. If you don't know what that means, then you don't have a hand to play in this discussion.

I've just gotten to the point where I just smile politely, shake my head, and say, "I agree. It's turtles all the way down."

He is one post away from getting included on my treasured ignore list.

It would be just like the blind close minded community to block out the only person making arguments against your theory. New Catholic Christian law preventing progress only the reverse now.

 

[SUPERMAN1929]

I'm going to start putting people on ignore if they cannot stick to the OP, and actually discuss the science. This is not a political thread, nor a religious thread. If you want to discuss those things, there are other forums more suitable to those ridiculous discussions. Superman, you are now on the list. Don't bother responding, because I won't see your responses.

I told everyone what would happen... Enjoy the new science these type of people embrace. They won't even acknowledge an argument against their theories because an "expert" told them it was fact.

 

[SUPERMAN1929]

Don't bother responding, because I won't see your responses.

He said geology isn't a real science. I wanted to correct him, but I don't like being wrong.

When did I say it wasn't a real science? I think it isn't the most useful one unless it is looking for useable materials. Finding fossils is the equivalent of an artist or photographer. You see the value of them to society.

 

[SUPERMAN1929]

You don't think that if scientists observed life being created from nothing in any sort of an experiment or observation it wouldn't be posted everywhere? Scientists post irrelevant findings and they end up on the news.

As a scientist, I can easily spot a straw man argument - yours, for instance.

Just show me the link where life actually came from nothing. I promise you that you won't find it unless it's a joke site or something. It would be a famous experiment and it would be done over and over again to show that life can come from nothing. You're stupid if you think that such an experiment exists.

Show me where anyone in this thread (other than you) ever made the claim that life came from nothing. Again, you're making a straw man argument. If you don't know what that means, then you don't have a hand to play in this discussion.

I'm calling evolutionists thinking that their pitiful theories theories are fact stupid. They lack evidence and claim they have it. They put out so much info that no one can go through it all unless they don't do anything productive for society and then make crazy assumptions about how things "had to have happened".

That's fine. You're something of the stereotype for the science loathing religious zealot who despises knowledge because it ultimately is viewed as a threat to your desire to live in trembling fear of angry gawds.

Stereotype much? I work in a field of science and actually study things that benefit our world. Not stupid shit full of assumptions and stupidity. I study real observable science. I have no fear of "gawdz". Once again, anyone who doesn't blindly accept your theories you put in a category of some kind of stupid although you are acting the fool. People who don't blindly accept this but yet don't have a religion are proven to be smarter than evolutionists. You know that right?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

As a scientist, I can easily spot a straw man argument - yours, for instance.

Just show me the link where life actually came from nothing. I promise you that you won't find it unless it's a joke site or something. It would be a famous experiment and it would be done over and over again to show that life can come from nothing. You're stupid if you think that such an experiment exists.

Show me where anyone in this thread (other than you) ever made the claim that life came from nothing. Again, you're making a straw man argument. If you don't know what that means, then you don't have a hand to play in this discussion.

I'm calling evolutionists thinking that their pitiful theories theories are fact stupid. They lack evidence and claim they have it. They put out so much info that no one can go through it all unless they don't do anything productive for society and then make crazy assumptions about how things "had to have happened".

That's fine. You're something of the stereotype for the science loathing religious zealot who despises knowledge because it ultimately is viewed as a threat to your desire to live in trembling fear of angry gawds.

Please ignore the trolls on this thread. I don't want to see irrelevant posts here. I would prefer to stick to the science. And his posts are certainly irrelevant. This is, after all, a science thread.

...and your scientific answer to the math that the odds of 2,000 proteins magically aligning themselves into a functioning cell using only left-handed amino acids are E5,700 -1 is....?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

...and these molecules bounced around together and formed a protein and that protein met part of an amino acid and the bounced around together and they kept bouncing around like at a disco, just bumping and twerking and the protein said to the amino acid, "hey baby, wanna come back to my place?" But the amino acid had to let him down gently, " no, see I'm righthanded and life on planet Earth only used left-handed amino acids " Then making the best of an awkward situation, the protein said, "well you can rub me with your right hand. We might not procreate but it'll be fun, for me anyway"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

See the problem with the primordial soup random chance theory?

...these molecules bumped together in the primordial soup to form a protein..the only way for a second protein to form is by chance again, and since the cell isn't fromed yet is it really a protein, when and how does it know what to do, when to switch on

 

[Old Rocks]

Consider a rift zone going from the ocean onto land. Like that of Ethiopia. You would have metal oxides we see at present. If the zpne ran from deep to the land at a fairly steep slope, you would have a multitude of differant pressure and temperature gradients right up to the land. On the land, one would have a very large area that would be wetted and dried several times a day, as the mooon was considerably closer then. The atmosphere would have been mostly CO2 and CH4, so the metals in the water would not have precipitated out as oxides, as they did once life started altering the atmosphere. That would have provided more catalytic material to take part in reactions. There are various minierals that tend to form double lipid layers in cavities, very small cavities, within the minerals, feldspars being one of them. Also, from an article that I read years ago, on chirality, the feldspars tend to promote chirality. Just considering these few items, seems to me that the problem with abiogenesis is not the idea of improbability, but, rather, which of so many possible paths did it take.

 

[Hollie]

Just show me the link where life actually came from nothing. I promise you that you won't find it unless it's a joke site or something. It would be a famous experiment and it would be done over and over again to show that life can come from nothing. You're stupid if you think that such an experiment exists.

Show me where anyone in this thread (other than you) ever made the claim that life came from nothing. Again, you're making a straw man argument. If you don't know what that means, then you don't have a hand to play in this discussion.

I'm calling evolutionists thinking that their pitiful theories theories are fact stupid. They lack evidence and claim they have it. They put out so much info that no one can go through it all unless they don't do anything productive for society and then make crazy assumptions about how things "had to have happened".

That's fine. You're something of the stereotype for the science loathing religious zealot who despises knowledge because it ultimately is viewed as a threat to your desire to live in trembling fear of angry gawds.

Please ignore the trolls on this thread. I don't want to see irrelevant posts here. I would prefer to stick to the science. And his posts are certainly irrelevant. This is, after all, a science thread.

...and your scientific answer to the math that the odds of 2,000 proteins magically aligning themselves into a functioning cell using only left-handed amino acids are E5,700 -1 is....?

You need to attend a few more of your Watchtower Bible Society meetings. And pay attention to your lessons. Yours is standard, debunked creationist drivel. You folks can't even count correctly.
CB040 Left-handed amino acids

Claim CB040:
The twenty amino acids used by life are all the left-handed variety. This is very unlikely to have occurred by chance.

Source:
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 43

Response:

1. The amino acids that are used in life, like most other aspects of living things, are very likely not the product of chance. Instead, they likely resulted from a selection process. A simple peptide replicator can amplify the proportion of a single handedness in an initially random mixture of left- and right-handed fragments (Saghatelian et al. 2001; TSRI 2001). Self-assemblies on two-dimensional surfaces can also amplify a single handedness (Zepik et al. 2002). Serine forms stable clusters of a single handedness which can select other amino acids of like handedness by subtituting them for serine; these clusters also incorporate other biologically important molecules such as glyceraldehyde, glucose, and phosphoric acid (Takats et al. 2003). An excess of handedness in one kind of amino acid catalyzes the handedness of other organic products, such as threose, which may have figured prominently in proto-life (Pizzarello and Weber 2004).
2. Amino acids found in meteorites from space, which must have formed abiotically, also show significantly more of the left-handed variety, perhaps from circularly polarized UV light in the early solar system (Engel and Macko 1997; Cronin and Pizzarello 1999). The weak nuclear force, responsible for beta decay, produces only electrons with left-handed spin, and chemicals exposed to these electrons are far more likely to form left-handed crystals (Service 1999). Such mechanisms might also have been responsible for the prevalence of left-handed amino acids on earth.
3. The first self-replicator may have had eight or fewer types of amino acids (Cavalier-Smith 2001). It is not all that unlikely that the same handedness might occur so few times by chance, especially if one of the amino acids was glycine, which has no handedness.
4. Some bacteria use right-handed amino acids, too (McCarthy et al. 1998).

Links:
Jacoby, Mitch. 2003. Serine flavors the primordial soup. Chemical and Engineering News 81(32): 5.American Chemical Society

 

[eots]

This thread is dedicated to the scientific exploration of the origin of life on Earth. This is my first contribution, which describes new research into the spontaneous production of organic molecules requisite for life. Feel free to contribute other examples.

Origin of life Chemistry of seabed s hot vents could explain emergence of life -- ScienceDaily

Date:
April 27, 2015
Source:
University College London
Summary:
Hot vents on the seabed could have spontaneously produced the organic molecules necessary for life, according to new research. The study shows how the surfaces of mineral particles inside hydrothermal vents have similar chemical properties to enzymes, the biological molecules that govern chemical reactions in living organisms. This means that vents are able to create simple carbon-based molecules, such as methanol and formic acid, out of the dissolved CO2 in the water.

This is more evidence that the building blocks of life were likely present and forming in these environments before life emerged on Earth.

What our research proves is that these vents also have the chemical properties that encourage these molecules to recombine into molecules usually associated with living organisms

More at the link.

wild speculation

 

[eots]

That's fine. You're something of the stereotype for the science loathing religious zealot who despises knowledge because it ultimately is viewed as a threat to your desire to live in trembling fear of angry gawds.

Please ignore the trolls on this thread. I don't want to see irrelevant posts here. I would prefer to stick to the science. And his posts are certainly irrelevant. This is, after all, a science thread.

...and your scientific answer to the math that the odds of 2,000 proteins magically aligning themselves into a functioning cell using only left-handed amino acids are E5,700 -1 is....?

You need to attend a few more of your Watchtower Bible Society meetings. And pay attention to your lessons. Yours is standard, debunked creationist drivel. You folks can't even count correctly.
CB040 Left-handed amino acids

Claim CB040:
The twenty amino acids used by life are all the left-handed variety. This is very unlikely to have occurred by chance.

Source:
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 43

Response:

1. The amino acids that are used in life, like most other aspects of living things, are very likely not the product of chance. Instead, they likely resulted from a selection process. A simple peptide replicator can amplify the proportion of a single handedness in an initially random mixture of left- and right-handed fragments (Saghatelian et al. 2001; TSRI 2001). Self-assemblies on two-dimensional surfaces can also amplify a single handedness (Zepik et al. 2002). Serine forms stable clusters of a single handedness which can select other amino acids of like handedness by subtituting them for serine; these clusters also incorporate other biologically important molecules such as glyceraldehyde, glucose, and phosphoric acid (Takats et al. 2003). An excess of handedness in one kind of amino acid catalyzes the handedness of other organic products, such as threose, which may have figured prominently in proto-life (Pizzarello and Weber 2004).
2. Amino acids found in meteorites from space, which must have formed abiotically, also show significantly more of the left-handed variety, perhaps from circularly polarized UV light in the early solar system (Engel and Macko 1997; Cronin and Pizzarello 1999). The weak nuclear force, responsible for beta decay, produces only electrons with left-handed spin, and chemicals exposed to these electrons are far more likely to form left-handed crystals (Service 1999). Such mechanisms might also have been responsible for the prevalence of left-handed amino acids on earth.
3. The first self-replicator may have had eight or fewer types of amino acids (Cavalier-Smith 2001). It is not all that unlikely that the same handedness might occur so few times by chance, especially if one of the amino acids was glycine, which has no handedness.
4. Some bacteria use right-handed amino acids, too (McCarthy et al. 1998).

Links:
Jacoby, Mitch. 2003. Serine flavors the primordial soup. Chemical and Engineering News 81(32): 5.American Chemical Society

Create life bitch. If you can't do that then I don't believe all your bs

Lovely folks, you angry, self-hating religious zealots.

believing in spontaneous generation sounds like a religion