Only in Bush's America

[TheOne]

Saudi Detainee's Parents Sue U.S.
WASHINGTON, July 28, 2004


The parents of an American jailed without charges in Saudi Arabia sued the United States on Wednesday in what lawyers say is the first lawsuit filed on behalf of a U.S. citizen detained in a third country at the U.S. government's request.

The parents claim his being held in Saudi Arabia is a deliberate attempt to keep him out of U.S. courts and in the hands of jailers who could abuse or torture him for information.

The family's lawyers cite last month's Supreme Court rulings that alleged enemy combatants held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, can take their claims to U.S. courts.

Ahmed Abu Ali was arrested 13 months ago in Saudi Arabia as part of an American anti-terrorism investigation. The U.S. government ordered the arrest and has refused to say when or if Abu Ali would be charged or released, the family alleged in a suit filed in U.S. District Court in Washington.

The family wants an American judge to order Abu Ali returned to the United States, where he might face charges as part of an alleged terrorism training ring in Virginia. The suit names Attorney General John Ashcroft, Secretary of State Colin Powell and others and cites the Supreme Court rulings last month that outlined legal rights for citizens and non-citizens detained in the war on terrorism.

"Although petitioner Ahmed Abu Ali presently is physically confined in Saudi Arabia, (the U.S. government) directed and conspired with Saudi co-conspirators to carry out his arrest and indefinite detention in that country without due process protections and in violation of other statutory and constitutional standards," lawyers for Abu Ali's family wrote.

Human rights lawyers who drafted the suit on behalf of Abu Ali's family claimed that his case is similar to others in which the United States has sent suspected terrorists to foreign countries that use harsher interrogation techniques than U.S. law allows.

Justice Department spokesman Mark Corallo declined comment on the lawsuit Wednesday. In previous cases challenging detention of potential terror suspects, the government has argued that American courts have no jurisdiction over foreigners held abroad, or over U.S. citizens held as enemy combatants in the United States.

The Supreme Court rejected much of that legal argument in two cases last month, and lawyers for foreign-born men held at Guantanamo are now pressing for their release in the same court where Abu Ali's case was filed.

The lawyers for Abu Ali's family said he, like the Guantanamo detainees, has a legal right to challenge his treatment in U.S. courts.

"Abu Ali in this case meets similar jurisdictional criteria, and, especially as a U.S. citizen, should be afforded this fundamental right," the suit said.

Abu Ali was born in Texas and holds dual U.S.-Jordanian citizenship. He was valedictorian of his high school class in Falls Church, Virginia, and was studying at a Saudi university when he was arrested in June 2003, the lawsuit said. His parents and siblings live in Falls Church, a suburb of Washington.

The FBI has questioned Abu Ali at least twice, but he has not been charged with any crime or allowed to see a lawyer, the suit said. The Saudi government has no plan to charge him and would release him to U.S. custody if asked, the suit said.

The family's lawsuit calls Saudi Arabia "a country that the Department of State has cited on numerous occasions for its mistreatment and torture of prisoners, especially during interrogations."

"The (government) may have subjected and/or knowingly and intentionally subjected petitioner Ahmed Abu Ali to coercive interrogation, mistreatment and/or torture," the suit claimed.

article

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Guess he shouldn't have got caught in Saudi Arabia..............

 

[DKSuddeth]

Guess he shouldn't have got caught in Saudi Arabia..............

I can sort of see the point in this. One of my problems with this 'enemy combatant' issue has been that there must be some sort of oversight so that an american, even one in another nation, isn't put into a legal blackhole.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

I can sort of see the point in this. One of my problems with this 'enemy combatant' issue has been that there must be some sort of oversight so that an american, even one in another nation, isn't put into a legal blackhole.

Hey, sorta don't coun't :

I am all for innocent until proven guilty. But the place/situation these guys were arrested in isn't really the US governments fault. If you were stupid enough to be in Afghanistan immediately after Bush gave them the ultimatum to hand over BinLaden or else, I don't really have much sympathy for you.

As far as Mr Ahmed Abu Ali, do you really think the US Gov't in cahoots with the Saudis (slimebags that they are) would have just snatched this guy up for no reason? If you do, and knowing that this could happen to you, would you not keep out of trouble?

Kinda like going to Damscus for vacation............

 

[TheOne]

Yes. This kid is an American citizen and was his class valedictorian in 1999 in a Northern Virginia public school.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Yes. This kid is an American citizen and was his class valedictorian in 1999 in a Northern Virginia public school.

So what! He could have been Johnny Jihad the 2nd in 2000. What's your point?

 

[TheOne]

So what! He could have been Johnny Jihad the 2nd in 2000. What's your point?

My piont is, he is a regular American citizen, pursuing his dreams and now, he is in some legal limbo with no charges against him and a foreign government holding him at the request of the US. Probably, so the Saudis can torture him.

I guess that's OK with you. I mean, it's not your son or brother over there.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

My piont is, he is a regular American citizen, pursuing his dreams and now, he is in some legal limbo with no charges against him and a foreign government holding him at the request of the US. Probably, so the Saudis can torture him.

I guess that's OK with you. I mean, it's not your son or brother over there.

Spin and innuendo.....your specialty.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

The parents claim his being held in Saudi Arabia is a deliberate attempt to keep him out of U.S. courts and in the hands of jailers who could abuse or torture him for information.

The family's lawyers cite last month's Supreme Court rulings that alleged enemy combatants held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, can take their claims to U.S. courts.

Ahmed Abu Ali was arrested 13 months ago in Saudi Arabia as part of an American anti-terrorism investigation. The U.S. government ordered the arrest and has refused to say when or if Abu Ali would be charged or released, the family alleged in a suit filed in U.S. District Court in Washington.

Read your own post again

 

[DKSuddeth]

Hey, sorta don't coun't :

I am all for innocent until proven guilty. But the place/situation these guys were arrested in isn't really the US governments fault. If you were stupid enough to be in Afghanistan immediately after Bush gave them the ultimatum to hand over BinLaden or else, I don't really have much sympathy for you.

As far as Mr Ahmed Abu Ali, do you really think the US Gov't in cahoots with the Saudis (slimebags that they are) would have just snatched this guy up for no reason? If you do, and knowing that this could happen to you, would you not keep out of trouble?

Kinda like going to Damscus for vacation............

there could be a few different reasons for being there. Fear of taliban retribution knowing an american attack is coming being one of them. Another thing (and abu ghraib should have taught us this) is that 'round ups' grab alot of people, some, if not most, were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you have no sympathy for that, then I hope it never happens to you, karma is a bitch.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

there could be a few different reasons for being there. Fear of taliban retribution knowing an american attack is coming being one of them. Another thing (and abu ghraib should have taught us this) is that 'round ups' grab alot of people, some, if not most, were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you have no sympathy for that, then I hope it never happens to you, karma is a bitch.

You missed my point. Would you go on vacation/school research/to a job in Iraq, Saudi, Syria, Sudan etc. today? Common sense would dictate that you wouldn't.

Kinda like walking around the ghetto at 2 in the morning when you don't live there.............

 

[TheOne]

The parents claim his being held in Saudi Arabia is a deliberate attempt to keep him out of U.S. courts and in the hands of jailers who could abuse or torture him for information.

The family's lawyers cite last month's Supreme Court rulings that alleged enemy combatants held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, can take their claims to U.S. courts.

Ahmed Abu Ali was arrested 13 months ago in Saudi Arabia as part of an American anti-terrorism investigation. The U.S. government ordered the arrest and has refused to say when or if Abu Ali would be charged or released, the family alleged in a suit filed in U.S. District Court in Washington.

Read your own post again

So, you are saying he is not actually being held in Saudi Arabia and his parents just want to sue because they are pulling a funny trick on the US government?

 

[JIHADTHIS]

No, neither one of us knows all of the facts, but you have obviously bought this story as pure 100% true, probably because you think it smears Bush.

 

[DKSuddeth]

You missed my point. Would you go on vacation/school research/to a job in Iraq, Saudi, Syria, Sudan etc. today? Common sense would dictate that you wouldn't.

Kinda like walking around the ghetto at 2 in the morning when you don't live there.............

I would if my name was ahmed abu ali, or whatever the hell his name was.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

there could be a few different reasons for being there. Fear of taliban retribution knowing an american attack is coming being one of them. Another thing (and abu ghraib should have taught us this) is that 'round ups' grab alot of people, some, if not most, were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you have no sympathy for that, then I hope it never happens to you, karma is a bitch.

Just to add on,

I've had the "pleasure" of being held at gun point by the NYPD TNT squad because I happened to be walking down the wrong street at the wrong time. Even got a nice little ride in a bus with 30-40 other citizens. I did nothing wrong, so I had nothing to worry about. No panties on my head mind you, but I survived
:soul:

 

[JIHADTHIS]

I would if my name was ahmed abu ali, or whatever the hell his name was.

Your bigger then me then.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Your bigger then me then.

doubt it, thats why I have an american name instead of ahmed abu ali.

 

[Annie]

Yes. This kid is an American citizen and was his class valedictorian in 1999 in a Northern Virginia public school.

The Unabomber, Leopold, & Loeb were all genius level, your point?

 

[TheOne]

The Unabomber, Leopold, & Loeb were all genius level, your point?

My point is that he is an exceptional scholar trying to live the American dream. Do you approve of his treatment? Can you empathize with the anquish of his loved ones? Is this the justice, freedom and liberty you want in this country?

People being held without charges and with no access to legal counsel is a gross human rights violation. America is supposed to be better than this.

 

[CSM]

My point is that he is an exceptional scholar trying to live the American dream. Do you approve of his treatment? Can you empathize with the anquish of his loved ones? Is this the justice, freedom and liberty you want in this country?

People being held without charges and with no access to legal counsel is a gross human rights violation. America is supposed to be better than this.

Being an exceptional scholar does not necessarily mean gifted with wisdom.
Without knowing why he was arrested in the first place, it is difficult to judge whether his treatment meets my approval. It could well be he deserves far worse than he is getting at the moment.

I can empathize.

It is not the justice, freedom and liberty I want in this country, but the person is not IN this country. This situation is rather ironic in that certain individuals would condone the oppression of millions of people by its government (Iraq) under the guise of national sovereignty and yet be so outraged when another sovereign nation does something those critics dont like. Makes me wonder about the sincerity and motives behind their outrage.

As for the last two statements, yes America is supposed to be better than that. However, it is not America holding the individual. I know where hits goes next: "What about the detainees the US is holding in Iraq/Gitmo?" I say,"What about em? They are prisoners of war; detain them until the war is over."