One million Wisconson voters want to sign a recall petition for the republicans

[georgephillip]

That's a lot of stupid people

Those supporting recall aren't stupid enough to grasp that out of every dollar funding Wisconsin"s pension and health insurance plans, 100 cents comes from the state workers:

"How can that be?

"Because the 'contributions' consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash.

"The same is true with the health care plan.

"If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services."

Really Bad...

100¢ comes from the taxpayer, cement head.

Are you calling for Wisconsin public employees to work for free, Koch-lick?

 

[Jarhead]

Just like your "evidence"?

Evidently you arent much of a researcher in general.

Whereas TM will take this as an insult, I am only calrifying the truth about her posts...

She does not research an item before posting it as fact.

When she reads something she tends to state it as fact without doing any due diligence to confirm what she read.

So yes, I agree that it is our job to then do the research to refute what she posts.

However, I have found that it is not worth the time as just about everytimes she starts a thread it is not valid information...just spun info that she enjoys believing without evidence of validity.

So I let her have her fun, watch those like MarcAtl respond in agreement and I laugh at their willingness to be naive to the facts.

So you are now denying what the poll asked?


You dont refute the information because you have nothing to refute it with other than petty insults.

It was not a prtty insult.

But I have learned whether a poll is in favor of my sentimets or against it....it is irrelevant without knowing the following:

Demographics of those questioned.
Exact wording of the question...including the set up of the question....
Political views of those questioned

You are aware that if someone were asked the following:

If it were found that the GOP Governor overstepped his boundaries in a court of law...would you be in favor of a recall...
You would get a completely different result if the question were presented as:
If, when all is said and done, and collective bargaining is eliminated from the contract, and the budget became balanced and there is no financial backlash to anyone, would you be in favor of a recall.

You see.....it is how the question is set up and then asked that is what is MOST important.

 

[del]

Those supporting recall aren't stupid enough to grasp that out of every dollar funding Wisconsin"s pension and health insurance plans, 100 cents comes from the state workers:

"How can that be?

"Because the 'contributions' consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash.

"The same is true with the health care plan.

"If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services."

Really Bad...

100¢ comes from the taxpayer, cement head.

Are you calling for Wisconsin public employees to work for free, Koch-lick?

are you this stupid in real life?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

http://www.strategictelemetry.com/docs/Walker_Budget_Survey_022811.pdf

Call me when you have 1,100,000 signatures on a recall petition.

 

[peach174]

sorry mis spoke now it's 7 Dems.

Recall Efforts Initiated Against 7 AWOL Wisconsin Democrats | The Gateway Pundit

I bet this will keep climbing up.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

100¢ comes from the taxpayer, cement head.

Are you calling for Wisconsin public employees to work for free, Koch-lick?

are you this stupid in real life?

Obviously.

 

[Jarhead]

Those supporting recall aren't stupid enough to grasp that out of every dollar funding Wisconsin"s pension and health insurance plans, 100 cents comes from the state workers:

"How can that be?

"Because the 'contributions' consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash.

"The same is true with the health care plan.

"If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services."

Really Bad...

100¢ comes from the taxpayer, cement head.

Are you calling for Wisconsin public employees to work for free, Koch-lick?

I believe you have a misunderstanding about a union pension and what an empoyer contribution is compared to an em0ployee contribution.

100 cents of each dollar deposited into the pension is NOT what comes out of the empoloyee
to the contray, I believe it was 6 cents from employee (tax deferred) and 94 cents from the state...and I believe it will now be adjusted to 12 cents per employee and 88 cents for the state.

 

[Truthmatters]

Whereas TM will take this as an insult, I am only calrifying the truth about her posts...

She does not research an item before posting it as fact.

When she reads something she tends to state it as fact without doing any due diligence to confirm what she read.

So yes, I agree that it is our job to then do the research to refute what she posts.

However, I have found that it is not worth the time as just about everytimes she starts a thread it is not valid information...just spun info that she enjoys believing without evidence of validity.

So I let her have her fun, watch those like MarcAtl respond in agreement and I laugh at their willingness to be naive to the facts.

So you are now denying what the poll asked?


You dont refute the information because you have nothing to refute it with other than petty insults.

It was not a prtty insult.

But I have learned whether a poll is in favor of my sentimets or against it....it is irrelevant without knowing the following:

Demographics of those questioned.
Exact wording of the question...including the set up of the question....
Political views of those questioned

You are aware that if someone were asked the following:

If it were found that the GOP Governor overstepped his boundaries in a court of law...would you be in favor of a recall...
You would get a completely different result if the question were presented as:
If, when all is said and done, and collective bargaining is eliminated from the contract, and the budget became balanced and there is no financial backlash to anyone, would you be in favor of a recall.

You see.....it is how the question is set up and then asked that is what is MOST important.

But I gave you the study andf pointed out page four where the question are shown and they are NOT phrased that way.


So why are you saying now that they are phrased that way?

 

[Misty]

The excesses of the TP and GOP are going to mount up and their popularity will fade as they implement (to excess) their idological theories about how society must work.
This is the nature of American politics.
The corporatists now have enough rope and they'll hang themselves exactly as the liberals hung themselves when they thought that they had the WILL of the majority behind them.Let me give you but a small example of that already playing out in Maine.
Recently our governor (a TP candidate) was shooting from the lip.
He said that Maine's lumbering industry was in trouble because of too many FEDERAL regulations.
I'm quite sure that he believed that to be true, because he truly believes that the FEDERAL government is responsible for every problem on earth.
Only here's the problem with being that kind of idealogue.

The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT imposes NO REGS on tyhe lunmber industry in Maine because the lumber industry in Maine works on PRIVATELY OWNED LAND.

See my point here?

Idealogues inevitably run into the problem of REALITY and when they do, and when that REALITY is effecting the lives of the people?

Then those ideaologues get tyhe boot and some other group of nitwits (usually the diametic opposite ideology) takes over and repeats the same idiotic process.

Federal bonding labor program. Makes it's so logging companies can't hire canadians over Americans to cut timber.

So great plan. Now no trees get cut and we face a timber shortage because Maineians don't want to cut trees.

They have too good of entitlement programs so no one wants to work. Sounds like California.

 

[Truthmatters]

Question two
Do you believe Governor walker should be recalled?

Question three
Would you be willing to sign a recall petition or take some other actions?



Those are the questions

 

[Avorysuds]

The excesses of the TP and GOP are going to mount up and their popularity will fade as they implement (to excess) their idological theories about how society must work.

This is the nature of American politics.

The corporatists now have enough rope and they'll hang themselves exactly as the liberals hung themselves when they thought that they had the WILL of the majority behind them.

Let me give you but a small example of that already playing out in Maine.

Recently our governor (a TP candidate) was shooting from the lip.

He said that Maine's lumbering industry was in trouble because of too many FEDERAL regulations.

I'm quite sure that he believed that to be true, because he truly believes that the FEDERAL government is responsible for every problem on earth.

Only here's the problem with being that kind of idealogue.

The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT imposes NO REGS on tyhe lunmber industry in Maine because the lumber industry in Maine works on PRIVATELY OWNED LAND.

See my point here?

Idealogues inevitably run into the problem of REALITY and when they do, and when that REALITY is effecting the lives of the people?

Then those ideaologues get tyhe boot and some other group of nitwits (usually the diametic opposite ideology) takes over and repeats the same idiotic process.

Soooo… It was the TP that built up the WI deficit so large that it was either balance the budget or fire near everyone?

Yeap the Tax cuts Walker ordered caused this budget crisis

My understanding is the deficit was hidden because other areas were raided for money to balance the debt, also there 2008 stimulus acted as a huge cover up of the problem. I'm sure you can't remember because it was history made during your life time but many conservatives subjected that if in a year or so the stimulus will act only as a greater deficit when all the same problems re-emerge. Meaning the Stimulus failed as states are in the exact same position as they were before, only more debt if anything.


It's like when Clinton bought off the public debt to make it look like where a surplus while in fact he was slowly running up a deficit and the next year’s budget would show that (I'm not defending Bush). So yes, there was no easily visible deficit in WI but raiding SS has a long term affect that is a deficit of its own.

Time to reboot TM.

 

[georgephillip]

100¢ comes from the taxpayer, cement head.

Are you calling for Wisconsin public employees to work for free, Koch-lick?

are you this stupid in real life?

Refute the following:

"Thus, state workers are not being asked to simply 'contribute more' to Wisconsin' s retirement system (or as the argument goes, 'pay their fair share' of retirement costs as do employees in Wisconsin' s private sector (who still have pensions and health insurance).

"They are being asked to accept a cut in their salaries so that the state of Wisconsin can use the money to fill the hole left by tax cuts and reduced audits of corporations in Wisconsin.

"The labor agreements show that the pension plan money is part of the total negotiated compensation. The key phrase, in those agreements I read (emphasis added), is: 'The Employer shall contribute on behalf of the employee.'

"This shows that this is just divvying up the total compensation package, so much for cash wages, so much for paid vacations, so much for retirement, etc.

"The employer shall contribute on behalf of the employee."

Amaze me with your intelligent rebuttal.

Really Bad...

 

[Jarhead]

So you are now denying what the poll asked?


You dont refute the information because you have nothing to refute it with other than petty insults.

It was not a prtty insult.

But I have learned whether a poll is in favor of my sentimets or against it....it is irrelevant without knowing the following:

Demographics of those questioned.
Exact wording of the question...including the set up of the question....
Political views of those questioned

You are aware that if someone were asked the following:

If it were found that the GOP Governor overstepped his boundaries in a court of law...would you be in favor of a recall...
You would get a completely different result if the question were presented as:
If, when all is said and done, and collective bargaining is eliminated from the contract, and the budget became balanced and there is no financial backlash to anyone, would you be in favor of a recall.

You see.....it is how the question is set up and then asked that is what is MOST important.

But I gave you the study andf pointed out page four where the question are shown and they are NOT phrased that way.


So why are you saying now that they are phrased that way?

I didnt say they are.
But you ignored the most impoortant part...

What was the set up of the question?

In other words...a pollster does not simply go up to a person and say:

Do you think the Governor should be recalled.

They first present a scenario.

But I noticed they did not post the scenario presented to those questioned.

So maybe this is how it went....(MAYBE)

Many people are saying that the Governor is breaking the law or overstepping his authority.
If this is true...

Do you believe Governor walker should be recalled?

Would you be willing to sign a recall petition or take some other actions?

So my question is...how was the questioning set up?

Why?

Becuase answering the part of "if this scenario is true"....I WOULD ANSWER YES TOO!

 

[Avorysuds]

Question two
Do you believe Governor walker should be recalled?

Question three
Would you be willing to sign a recall petition or take some other actions?



Those are the questions

How many people were asked the question TM, and what party or ideology did they affiliate themselves with?

 

[Gunny]

Pretty sad when a thread about farts is more legit than this garbage.

 

[Avorysuds]

It was not a prtty insult.

But I have learned whether a poll is in favor of my sentimets or against it....it is irrelevant without knowing the following:

Demographics of those questioned.
Exact wording of the question...including the set up of the question....
Political views of those questioned

You are aware that if someone were asked the following:

If it were found that the GOP Governor overstepped his boundaries in a court of law...would you be in favor of a recall...
You would get a completely different result if the question were presented as:
If, when all is said and done, and collective bargaining is eliminated from the contract, and the budget became balanced and there is no financial backlash to anyone, would you be in favor of a recall.

You see.....it is how the question is set up and then asked that is what is MOST important.

But I gave you the study andf pointed out page four where the question are shown and they are NOT phrased that way.


So why are you saying now that they are phrased that way?

I didnt say they are.
But you ignored the most impoortant part...

What was the set up of the question?

In other words...a pollster does not simply go up to a person and say:

Do you think the Governor should be recalled.

They first present a scenario.

But I noticed they did not post the scenario presented to those questioned.

So maybe this is how it went....(MAYBE)

Many people are saying that the Governor is breaking the law or overstepping his authority.
If this is true...

Do you believe Governor walker should be recalled?

Would you be willing to sign a recall petition or take some other actions?

So my question is...how was the questioning set up?

Why?

Becuase answering the part of "if this scenario is true"....I WOULD ANSWER YES TOO!

Chances are she won't understand that the question really was (in this this case): Many people are saying that the Governor is breaking the law or overstepping his authority.
If this is true... ... Then people are given a A,B,C choice to answer that question.

 

[Jarhead]

Are you calling for Wisconsin public employees to work for free, Koch-lick?

are you this stupid in real life?

Refute the following:

"Thus, state workers are not being asked to simply 'contribute more' to Wisconsin' s retirement system (or as the argument goes, 'pay their fair share' of retirement costs as do employees in Wisconsin' s private sector (who still have pensions and health insurance).

"They are being asked to accept a cut in their salaries so that the state of Wisconsin can use the money to fill the hole left by tax cuts and reduced audits of corporations in Wisconsin.

"The labor agreements show that the pension plan money is part of the total negotiated compensation. The key phrase, in those agreements I read (emphasis added), is: 'The Employer shall contribute on behalf of the employee.'

"This shows that this is just divvying up the total compensation package, so much for cash wages, so much for paid vacations, so much for retirement, etc.

"The employer shall contribute on behalf of the employee."

Amaze me with your intelligent rebuttal.

Really Bad...

You are quite naive and falling for the spin.

As it pertains to pensions...no employee would prefer LESS WAGES and more employer contribution to their pension.

They would ALWAYS prefer the option to put it in themselves as it is tax deferred so there is no gain to taking less salary but more pension paid by the employer.

That was spin for folks like you to believe and support the side of the union.

Yep...the unions know people like you would never see the forest thru the trees...they think you are stupid.

 

[peach174]

Ain't it the truth. Good one Gunny

 

[Oddball]

Are you calling for Wisconsin public employees to work for free, Koch-lick?

are you this stupid in real life?

Refute the following:

"Thus, state workers are not being asked to simply 'contribute more' to Wisconsin' s retirement system (or as the argument goes, 'pay their fair share' of retirement costs as do employees in Wisconsin' s private sector (who still have pensions and health insurance).

"They are being asked to accept a cut in their salaries so that the state of Wisconsin can use the money to fill the hole left by tax cuts and reduced audits of corporations in Wisconsin.

"The labor agreements show that the pension plan money is part of the total negotiated compensation. The key phrase, in those agreements I read (emphasis added), is: 'The Employer shall contribute on behalf of the employee.'

"This shows that this is just divvying up the total compensation package, so much for cash wages, so much for paid vacations, so much for retirement, etc.

"The employer shall contribute on behalf of the employee."

Amaze me with your intelligent rebuttal.

Really Bad...

Refute the following: Every penny paid to bureaucrats, hence their "contribution" to their pensions, come from the pockets of the taxpayer.

Cement head.

 

[Truthmatters]

It was not a prtty insult.

But I have learned whether a poll is in favor of my sentimets or against it....it is irrelevant without knowing the following:

Demographics of those questioned.
Exact wording of the question...including the set up of the question....
Political views of those questioned

You are aware that if someone were asked the following:

If it were found that the GOP Governor overstepped his boundaries in a court of law...would you be in favor of a recall...
You would get a completely different result if the question were presented as:
If, when all is said and done, and collective bargaining is eliminated from the contract, and the budget became balanced and there is no financial backlash to anyone, would you be in favor of a recall.

You see.....it is how the question is set up and then asked that is what is MOST important.

But I gave you the study andf pointed out page four where the question are shown and they are NOT phrased that way.


So why are you saying now that they are phrased that way?

I didnt say they are.
But you ignored the most impoortant part...

What was the set up of the question?

In other words...a pollster does not simply go up to a person and say:

Do you think the Governor should be recalled.

They first present a scenario.

But I noticed they did not post the scenario presented to those questioned.

So maybe this is how it went....(MAYBE)

Many people are saying that the Governor is breaking the law or overstepping his authority.
If this is true...

Do you believe Governor walker should be recalled?

Would you be willing to sign a recall petition or take some other actions?

So my question is...how was the questioning set up?

Why?

Becuase answering the part of "if this scenario is true"....I WOULD ANSWER YES TOO!

Its all been provided by the link to the study.

Go read it if you have questions instead of pretending what you want to pretend about the study