Ohio Needs $8 Billion -- Brother Can You Spare A Dime?

[shintao]

Only public employee unionists and those on their pensions are in heaven.

Yeah, some people are smarter than the common everyday laidback redneck, and actually believe that work owes them a living wage.

You just show up at the state office building, push a pencil, and you're owed something?

No, first you are qualified and have been hired at the state office building, then you show up and push a pencil for a living wage, which you are owed. You were close, but no monica soaked cigar for you................

 

[loosecannon]

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- With Gov.-elect John Kasich and soon-to-be House Speaker Bill Batchelder rising to power in January, a no-new-taxes pledge signed by both suddenly has huge implications for the next state budget.

The pledge requires signers to "oppose and vote against any and all efforts to raise taxes." It was signed by Kasich, Batchelder and at least 21 other Republicans beginning new terms in the Ohio House in January, including Rep. Tim Grendell, the state senator from Chester Township who will jump chambers because of term limits.

The pledge, created by the group Americans for Tax Reform, became a virtual must-sign for Republicans running for Congress across America.

But down at the Ohio Statehouse -- where Kasich and GOP legislative leaders will hammer out a plan to address a shortfall in the next state budget that could approach $8 billion -- the pledge could have the most profound implications.

Unlike the federal budget, the state budget must be in balance when the two-year spending blueprint is passed next summer. So taking tax hikes completely off the table limits the options available to policy makers.

"He's not going to increase the tax burden on Ohioans, period," said Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols.

However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax.

Under the terms of the pledge, Kasich could eliminate some of the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions in the state tax code -- but there's a big catch. He would have to offset those moves with tax cuts, so he wouldn't gain a cent of new revenue.

"John said throughout the campaign that everything is under the microscope," Nichols said.

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com

Ohio is in the middle of a two-year budget cycle. The governor signed the FY2010-11 state budget, which included general fund spending of $25.9 billion over the two years,[1] on July 17, 2009.[2] The state finished the first year of the current budget cycle on June 30, 2010, in the black. However, many sources, both inside and outside the state government, project a structural budget shortfall that could exceed $8 billion for the next two-year budget that would start on July 1, 2011.[3] The current budget utilizes $8.4 billion of one-time funds.[4]

Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Educat...,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

CA has faced $20 billion budget shortfalls for 2 straight years and has managed to balance the budget without taxation by employing a number of accounting tricks.

You will be astonished how far creative accounting can go toward keeping the budget technically balanced while avoiding the issue of no money.

But sooner or later shit will hit the fan.

 

[uscitizen]

If Ohio had just kept investing in collectable coins....

it begins.
and is is not going to be fun.
The stimulus money kept them going this long, but no more stimulus.

Last year's "donation" from the feds via stimulus money was about $1 Billion. You ask why we did not get jobs from this? Because our legislature plowed the money into the General Revenue Fund to avoid slashing the state budget -- a move that should have been illegal, but apparently was not.

I suspect the same thing happened in damned near every state -- no jobs created by stimulus because the state misspent the cash.

yes most all states did this and virtually none of them reduced spending at any significant level.

 

[Madeline]

So my question is: This situation didn't crop up in the last week. It has been building for some time. Why didn't the paper or whatever is quoted here run this story BEFORE the election? WHy did they wait until after, when the Republican candidate was elected, to run a story about how he will either have to raise taxes, showing him to be a hypocrite, or let the state go bankrupt, or lay off firemen, police, and teachers (the usual plaint--it isn't true)?

Of course it was discussed, The Rabbi. WTF do you think both candidates campaigned on? This ain't some "gotcha" dirty trick by a newspaper -- this is a nonpartisan issue that the state must face. I suspect all states must, or almost all.

We have to suffer, and just what kind of suffering is most palatable to us?

 

[uscitizen]

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- With Gov.-elect John Kasich and soon-to-be House Speaker Bill Batchelder rising to power in January, a no-new-taxes pledge signed by both suddenly has huge implications for the next state budget.

The pledge requires signers to "oppose and vote against any and all efforts to raise taxes." It was signed by Kasich, Batchelder and at least 21 other Republicans beginning new terms in the Ohio House in January, including Rep. Tim Grendell, the state senator from Chester Township who will jump chambers because of term limits.

The pledge, created by the group Americans for Tax Reform, became a virtual must-sign for Republicans running for Congress across America.

But down at the Ohio Statehouse -- where Kasich and GOP legislative leaders will hammer out a plan to address a shortfall in the next state budget that could approach $8 billion -- the pledge could have the most profound implications.

Unlike the federal budget, the state budget must be in balance when the two-year spending blueprint is passed next summer. So taking tax hikes completely off the table limits the options available to policy makers.

"He's not going to increase the tax burden on Ohioans, period," said Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols.

However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax.

Under the terms of the pledge, Kasich could eliminate some of the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions in the state tax code -- but there's a big catch. He would have to offset those moves with tax cuts, so he wouldn't gain a cent of new revenue.

"John said throughout the campaign that everything is under the microscope," Nichols said.

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com

Ohio is in the middle of a two-year budget cycle. The governor signed the FY2010-11 state budget, which included general fund spending of $25.9 billion over the two years,[1] on July 17, 2009.[2] The state finished the first year of the current budget cycle on June 30, 2010, in the black. However, many sources, both inside and outside the state government, project a structural budget shortfall that could exceed $8 billion for the next two-year budget that would start on July 1, 2011.[3] The current budget utilizes $8.4 billion of one-time funds.[4]

Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Educat...,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

CA has faced $20 billion budget shortfalls for 2 straight years and has managed to balance the budget without taxation by employing a number of accounting tricks.

You will be astonished how far creative accounting can go toward keeping the budget technically balanced while avoiding the issue of no money.

But sooner or later shit will hit the fan.

Yep and the excrement impacting the osciallating air movement device will be blamed entirely on the new democratic governor.

 

[shintao]

If Ohio had just kept investing in collectable coins....

it begins.
and is is not going to be fun.
The stimulus money kept them going this long, but no more stimulus.

Last year's "donation" from the feds via stimulus money was about $1 Billion. You ask why we did not get jobs from this? Because our legislature plowed the money into the General Revenue Fund to avoid slashing the state budget -- a move that should have been illegal, but apparently was not.

I suspect the same thing happened in damned near every state -- no jobs created by stimulus because the state misspent the cash.

Hmm, why don't you out-source your legislature to India?

 

[Madeline]

Does the state cut medical benefits for retirees when they qualify for medicare like most corps do that still offer retiree health benefits?

The federal government does not; I dun know about the state, uscitizen. I suspect not.

 

[Madeline]

[ IMO, we should decriminalize sales and possession with intent to sell using the same standard as I suggested, which is if you create a disruption to your neighborhood, THAT disruption is a criminal act.

How about, if you have done the studies to prove you need a law, whatever law, you make sure you can fund the law from everything from the arrest to the parole. After all, the only thing that makes a crime, is writing a law.

Certain behavior needs to remain criminal regardless, shintao. And from time to time, you need new crimes as the behaviors are not contemplated by the old ones but are nonetheless a threat to public safety -- e.g., internet crimes. But this is my point: there is a high cost associated with every criminal statute. Where the behavior is tolerable, we just cannot afford to continue to use government to arrest, convict, punish, rehabilitate, track, etc.

I'm not willing to slash spending on alleviating hunger in favor of funding efforts to "prevent" prostitution. Assuming everyone is an adult and no one is coerced, I dun care what anyone in my state decides to sell, including their body.

 

[Madeline]

Yeah, some people are smarter than the common everyday laidback redneck, and actually believe that work owes them a living wage.

You just show up at the state office building, push a pencil, and you're owed something?

No, first you are qualified and have been hired at the state office building, then you show up and push a pencil for a living wage, which you are owed. You were close, but no monica soaked cigar for you................

You are owed wages and benefits for your work. What I dispute is this idea that after you have vested in your pension, you are owed wages and benefits for life even though you may have stopped working decades earlier.

But as for those wages: IMO, no one working for the government -- and I mean NO ONE -- needs to be paid more than $60,000. You want more, go work for the private sector. Most state and local government salary spreads have two groups: the vastly underpaid and the vastly overpaid. What we need is to eliminate both clusters, and pay more people a living wage....with a tremendous overall cost saving.

I feel the same way about federal employees. Why should anyone get rich off public service?

 

[uscitizen]

And why should public employees including elected officials have better medical care in retirement than the majority of those people paying for the public employees?

 

[shintao]

Certain behavior needs to remain criminal regardless, shintao. And from time to time, you need new crimes as the behaviors are not contemplated by the old ones but are nonetheless a threat to public safety -- e.g., internet crimes. But this is my point: there is a high cost associated with every criminal statute. Where the behavior is tolerable, we just cannot afford to continue to use government to arrest, convict, punish, rehabilitate, track, etc.

I'm not willing to slash spending on alleviating hunger in favor of funding efforts to "prevent" prostitution. Assuming everyone is an adult and no one is coerced, I dun care what anyone in my state decides to sell, including their body.

Sheriff Joe in Arizona is doing the best with what he was given. The prisoners live in tents and work for their peanut butter sandwich for dinner.

 

[Madeline]

Certain behavior needs to remain criminal regardless, shintao. And from time to time, you need new crimes as the behaviors are not contemplated by the old ones but are nonetheless a threat to public safety -- e.g., internet crimes. But this is my point: there is a high cost associated with every criminal statute. Where the behavior is tolerable, we just cannot afford to continue to use government to arrest, convict, punish, rehabilitate, track, etc.

I'm not willing to slash spending on alleviating hunger in favor of funding efforts to "prevent" prostitution. Assuming everyone is an adult and no one is coerced, I dun care what anyone in my state decides to sell, including their body.

Sheriff Joe in Arizona is doing the best with what he was given. The prisoners live in tents and work for their peanut butter sandwich for dinner.

He is running a county jail, not a state prison. There is far too much federal caselaw on the rights of state prisoners to copy his methods, and even if there were not, abandoning existing buildings in favor of tent cities hardly seems in the best interests of public safety.

I'm not feeling the love here, folks. Why am I not hearing a "O hell ya" for decriminalizing offensive but tolerable conduct? For restructuring state pensions? Are some of you more concerned with prostitution and marijuana than with hunger?

 

[Madeline]

And why should public employees including elected officials have better medical care in retirement than the majority of those people paying for the public employees?

I can't understand why any legislator, state or federal, even needs a government pension to begin with. These are not permanent jobs. Many states' legislatures are only in session for two months of the year and none of these guys at the state or federal level should be encouraged to "make a career of it". If you choose to do so and term limits dun prevent it, then save for your own damned retirement from your salary.

 

[oreo]

What the heck are they paying for that requires $8 billion dollars they don't have?

Exactly what I was thinking. And if Ohio is a balanced budget state--wouldn't they have to balance their budget every year? We here in Colorado have too--and over the last couple of years our governor and legislature is cutting--cutting-cutting to meet the balanced budget requirement.

 

[shintao]

You just show up at the state office building, push a pencil, and you're owed something?

No, first you are qualified and have been hired at the state office building, then you show up and push a pencil for a living wage, which you are owed. You were close, but no monica soaked cigar for you................

You are owed wages and benefits for your work. What I dispute is this idea that after you have vested in your pension, you are owed wages and benefits for life even though you may have stopped working decades earlier.

But as for those wages: IMO, no one working for the government -- and I mean NO ONE -- needs to be paid more than $60,000. You want more, go work for the private sector. Most state and local government salary spreads have two groups: the vastly underpaid and the vastly overpaid. What we need is to eliminate both clusters, and pay more people a living wage....with a tremendous overall cost saving.

I feel the same way about federal employees. Why should anyone get rich off public service?

Ahh, capitalism raises it's ugly head. This argument deserves the same answer the republicans tell Dems about the rich. "Your just jealous of the state worker because he worked hard to get what he has, and you want to take it away from him." You want your cake and eat it as well.

You really don't grasp the logical approach, because you are thinking of yourself-"me," not WE THE PEOPLE. You should rejoice these people are making living wages & benefits & struggle for the day you will as well. You shouldn't be tearing down other peoples fortunes, because it tears your own down eventually It makes it possible for your boss to say you are worth less, the standard of living should be lowered, etc.

It wasn't the state employees fault the budget went to shit, so why pick on them? Want pain? Cut the legislature salaries & benfits & bonuses & perks. Close down the governor mashion, your gov has a home or he can stay in a cheap motel 6. Tell him to move home closer to work like you have to do. The state employees have made a good faith contract, so honor it. If you aren't worth your word, your not worth having a government ~ AND that will solve Ohios problem.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Up the tax on alcohol just like they did cigarettes. That should bring in more money.

People are paying 80 bucks for a carton of smokes now in some areas and in others 11 dollars a pack or over 100 per carton. Why not a higher drinking tax too?

New cigarette tax driving more smokers to black market | KING5.com | Seattle News and Video

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/nyregion/22budget.html

 

[shintao]

What I failed to mention, in speaking of logical, the Germans pay the same amount of taxes as we do, yet they retire with full medical, and full wages at the time of retirement, not a flimsy pension to scrape by on. Every American deserves that, so work toward making that every Americans goal.

 

[Madeline]

What the heck are they paying for that requires $8 billion dollars they don't have?

Exactly what I was thinking. And if Ohio is a balanced budget state--wouldn't they have to balance their budget every year? We here in Colorado have too--and over the last couple of years our governor and legislature is cutting--cutting-cutting to meet the balanced budget requirement.

Yes, Ohio is a balanced budget state (thank God). They budget shortfalls occurred in the past year but were met by fancy accounting and the federal stimulus money, for the most part. The deep cuts will come beginning in July 2011 -- they are saying Ohio has had the biggest drop in revenue (adjusted for inflation) of any time in the past 40 years.

 

[uscitizen]

What I failed to mention, in speaking of logical, the Germans pay the same amount of taxes as we do, yet they retire with full medical, and full wages at the time of retirement, not a flimsy pension to scrape by on. Every American deserves that, so work toward making that every Americans goal.

Germans have better employment and thus pay more in taxes.

 

[shintao]

[I'm not feeling the love here, folks. Why am I not hearing a "O hell ya" for decriminalizing offensive but tolerable conduct? For restructuring state pensions? Are some of you more concerned with prostitution and marijuana than with hunger?

I am for legalizing all drugs and making people responsible for their own behavior.

I am for legalizing prostitution, as long as it is conducted outside the city limits, there are health checks, taxes are paid, and one year in state prison if caught in an act within any city limits.

I am for legalizing making home/farm liquor & growing tobacco for sale as well.