Oh...it's not a 'baby' or a 'person' - it's just a FETUS...a clump of tissue!

[rtwngAvngr]

Good morning, RWA! How are you a-doin' today? How about that Zell Miller! Who do you like in the Super Bowl this year? I don't really have a hell of a lot to say - I just thought your post should be seen as much as possible. Have a good day!

doing OK. Thanks for asking! Thanks for your advocacy. And as for as sports go, they're just a diversionary tactic the powers that be use to distract our attention from our impending enslavement by the global liberal elite!

 

[musicman]

doing OK. Thanks for asking! Thanks for your advocacy. And as for as sports go, they're just a diversionary tactic the powers that be use to distract our attention from our impending enslavement by the global liberal elite!

Yes - and, when that glorious day comes, there'll be no more of this tedious talk of "when life begins". Big Daddy Government will answer all those hard questions for us. We can be just like the Chinese!
:clap1:

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Yes - and, when that glorious day comes, there'll be no more of this tedious talk of "when life begins". Big Daddy Government will answer all those hard questions for us. We can be just like the Chinese!
:clap1:

Here is an even better one.
This is sort of my twilight zone thinking here:
Say science perfects the procedure that would reconstruct DNA in the womb
and remove a flaw in the child (which they are working on).
WHAT IF........ they were to remove an unwanted
trait from human dna that would later become important for the survival of the
human race. Exp: Down syndrome is caused by a person having three copies of chromosome 21 instead of two copies. What if that extra copy was meant to
mutate to form a new human characteristic in evolution that would save mankind?

I know this is a big what if.....but anything is possible.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

I know that had nothing to do with abortion but it supports my view that
messing with the natural chain of life was not meant to be.

 

[r2200t]

And, Lord knows, you've got so much more to be depressed about than any generation that came before you. MTV screams it at you a thousand times a day; it MUST be true.

Yes, exactly what i was thinking. It's todays society..

Some might call it an interesting Freudian slip - the fact that you capitalized "Mistakes". Yes - these particular "Mistakes" are innocent and helpless. Perhaps you might want to re-examine your concepts of what sex is for.

Actually, i purposely capitalized the M, cause you know kids do make Mistakes, all the time. But now i see it from your perspective, that this might not be a mistake...

Well, speaking for myself, my honest answer is that I don't know. But, since the consequences of my actions in this case would reach well outside myself, and could possibly involve the life or death of an absolutely blameless, helpless human being, I'd say that the only sane action would be to err on the side of caution, and concern for innocent life.

Ok.

"2.) What solution do you have for young teens who get pregnant, and who decide to use coat hangers to perform abortions on themselves?"

Your question is rhetorical, not to mention loaded. Otherwise, I'd answer, "Don't do it! Talk to somebody! There's no problem the mind of man can set that the mind of man can't solve!" You know - concerned, heartfelt stuff. But you don't want to hear that. You're mind's already made up, and you're just looking for some validation. So, my advice is, "Do it near an emergency room".

Well, this is a true story it happened in Montreal several years ago, and it's aparently not uncommon. Sex-Ed is pretty good here and concellors always encourage students to talk to them, but sometimes they get scared and keep to themselves.. and injure themselves. This is why in Montreal, 16 year olds can have free abortions without their parents consent. The law did solve the mutilation problems. I do suppose, if sex-ed went further, and became a manditory full length class for several years, then perhaps, safer sex could be taught. And maybe then less girls would get pregnant etc...

r2200t:"Those who don't have sex by the age of 18...become rejects...don't get invited to parties...".

Well, my first instinct is to point out that that is an alarmingly shallow and self-centered point of view, but, what the hell - the Democrat nominee for President claims to believe that life begins at the moment of conception, and he doesn't give a shit. If the unborn stand between him and a vote - screw 'em! So, why should you let them spoil your party?

huh? i didn't get that.

r2200t:"Again, [ abstinence] is not an option... What is the solution for today?"

Here's some advice, though that's not what you came here looking for. Since you've already determined the parameters of what is and isn't possible for you, my advice is to close your ears. Anytime you hear a discouraging word about some unpleasant topic like the sanctity of life, or personal responsibility, drown it out with a happy little tune.

I don't know what to tell you about that little voice in your head, though.

Well, to be honnest, this is not about me and my mind. We need to find a solution for todays society. What is that solution? More education? will that stop everything? Also, since we have freedom of religion, if someone elses religion doesn't consider an unborn to have a soul, is it acceptable for them to have abortions? and unacceptable for others who believe?

Thinking about this, i don't think it's right to argue Abortion rights with religion beliefs or what not...

I don't like the concept of abortion, but i do think it has beneficial effects for society. In montreal, where abortion is "normal", there are very few single mothers (who were never married). This is not the case in California (or seatle) where single mothers on child support are everywhere. I believe a child should have 2 parents ... it wouldn't be fair for the child to live in poverty, with only one parent. Single mom's have lower chances of getting a Univ. education... poverty. life ain't easy. So is it better to have an abortion, and get pregnant at the right time, or have the baby right away and live a miserable life?

 

[ajwps]

So, essentially, you have nothing to stand on but YOUR interpretation of the Bible?

Sorry, but if it's a choice of opinion, I would rather believe the Catholic Church's interpretation.

Not really. There are two concepts here. Those who interpret the Catholic Bible and those who wrote it.

Ergo, it is not my interpetation of the Catholic Bible but in fact I am the one who wrote it. Therefore you cannot question my Bible that I wrote in the blood of the pagans.

ScreamEagle, you are a trip.....

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Not really. There are two concepts here. Those who interpret the Catholic Bible and those who wrote it.

Ergo, it is not my interpetation of the Catholic Bible but in fact I am the one who wrote it. Therefore you cannot question my Bible that I wrote in the blood of the pagans.

ScreamEagle, you are a trip.....

Still aj. You're the one falling back on scripture to prove your assinine point. Though you claim to be a man of science. Science says babies are alive before birth. You can't even keep your stories straight. You have no core self.

 

[ajwps]

In a bizarre sense, I have to confess a grudging admiration for you, AJ. There's just no "quit" in you. Even after you've been completely shut down, and cannot possibly argue another syllable about what IS, you introduce what is theoretically POSSIBLE into the conversation, and argue it as FACT. You're a role model for mall lawyers everywhere.

If human beings are ever cloned, it's going to raise some very interesting questions, to say the least. But, for now, it is all conjecture. When the question involves life and death, I prefer to address myself to what IS. I reiterate:

I can state, with absolute, unerring certainty, that, by destroying one of my skin cells, I am not ending an innocent life which exists separately and distinctly from my own. I can make no such statement about abortion. Neither can you. Neither can anyone. Therefore, I consider it prudent to err on the side of life.

When you can argue with that, in the realm of what is, let me know.

I understand. It is hard to admit that you don't have any answer to my simple question. GOTCHA

The fact is that science can clone animals and have already cloned human beings as claimed by several countries. So the fact of cloning is in NOW in the realm of what is. You can't even answer the simple question, when does life enter your cloned skin cell growing in a womb as your cells are a part of you and already a soul.

The fact that the HUMAN SOUL is apparenatly a very special gift to homosapiens by a Creator seems to confound you. Your independent pronouncements are meaningless as you can't even believe Jesus Christ's view on abortion happening around him.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I understand. It is hard to admit that you don't have any answer to my simple question. GOTCHA

The fact is that science can clone animals and have already cloned human beings as claimed by several countries. So the fact of cloning is in NOW in the realm of what is. You can't even answer the simple question, when does life enter your cloned skin cell growing in a womb as your cells are a part of you and already a soul.

The fact that the HUMAN SOUL is apparenatly a very special gift to homosapiens by a Creator seems to confound you. Your independent pronouncements are meaningless as you can't even believe Jesus Christ's view on abortion happening around him.

Aj, this is no gotcha. This is lame and constipated thinking.

 

[dilloduck]

I understand. It is hard to admit that you don't have any answer to my simple question. GOTCHA

The fact is that science can clone animals and have already cloned human beings as claimed by several countries. So the fact of cloning is in NOW in the realm of what is. You can't even answer the simple question, when does life enter your cloned skin cell growing in a womb as your cells are a part of you and already a soul.

The fact that the HUMAN SOUL is apparenatly a very special gift to homosapiens by a Creator seems to confound you. Your independent pronouncements are meaningless as you can't even believe Jesus Christ's view on abortion happening around him.

God doesn't give clones souls?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Yes, exactly what i was thinking. It's todays society..


Actually, i purposely capitalized the M, cause you know kids do make Mistakes, all the time. But now i see it from your perspective, that this might not be a mistake...

Ok.





Well, this is a true story it happened in Montreal several years ago, and it's aparently not uncommon. Sex-Ed is pretty good here and concellors always encourage students to talk to them, but sometimes they get scared and keep to themselves.. and injure themselves. This is why in Montreal, 16 year olds can have free abortions without their parents consent. The law did solve the mutilation problems. I do suppose, if sex-ed went further, and became a manditory full length class for several years, then perhaps, safer sex could be taught. And maybe then less girls would get pregnant etc...

huh? i didn't get that.

r2200t:"Again, [ abstinence] is not an option... What is the solution for today?"


Well, to be honnest, this is not about me and my mind. We need to find a solution for todays society. What is that solution? More education? will that stop everything? Also, since we have freedom of religion, if someone elses religion doesn't consider an unborn to have a soul, is it acceptable for them to have abortions? and unacceptable for others who believe?

Thinking about this, i don't think it's right to argue Abortion rights with religion beliefs or what not...

I don't like the concept of abortion, but i do think it has beneficial effects for society. In montreal, where abortion is "normal", there are very few single mothers (who were never married). This is not the case in California (or seatle) where single mothers on child support are everywhere. I believe a child should have 2 parents ... it wouldn't be fair for the child to live in poverty, with only one parent. Single mom's have lower chances of getting a Univ. education... poverty. life ain't easy. So is it better to have an abortion, and get pregnant at the right time, or have the baby right away and live a miserable life?

Abstinence is not an option? Better off dead? You're thinking is perverted.

 

[r2200t]

Abstinence is not an option? Better off dead? You're thinking is perverted.

In today's depressed society, abstinence is not an option. If people don't have sex, then need to compensate through other means (sex IS and anti-depressant), Since society is very depressing... So instead of having sex, they can smoke, drink, do drugs, be violent etc.. but they have to do something.

 

[5stringJeff]

1. Do the conservatives consider life from moment the successful sperm enters the egg? in this case, are "pro-life" people against the day after pill?

Some are, some aren't. As I understand it, the morning-after pill flushes the egg cell out of the uterus, thereby decreasing the chance of fertilization - a post-sex birth control method. I am not anti-birth control and so I am OK with the morning after pill.

2. What solution do you have for young teens who get pregnant, and who decide to use coat hangers to perform abortions on themselves? (for fear that their parents reaction.)

What a scaremongering tactic. I have known a few girls who got pregnant in high school on accident, and none of their parents beat them or kicked them out. Not to mention, there are hundreds of adoption agencies for girls who don't want to keep their babies.

Again, abstenance is not an option, since some of us live in 2004, in metropolises, where pre-marital sex is the norm. Those who don't have sex by the age of 18 are considered ubnormal by fellow schoolmates (or really ugly) and become rejects. They don't get invited to parties...

This is the biggest cop-out I've ever seen. Abstinence is not an option?!? Why - because teenagers don't have the maturity to show self control?? This line really ticks me off. If people (teens or otherwise) are not mature enough to deal with the consequences of sex, the shouldn't be having sex, and we as adults should be telling them as much. Telling teenagers that, "it's OK, we know you can't hel yourselves" is false, and gives them a sense that they are not responsible if the girl does get pregnant (or worse, an STD is contracted).
And not getting invited to parties is the stupidest excuse I've ever heard. I went to high school in the 1990's, had sex once with my 20 y/o gf that no one at my school knew, and I was still plenty popular.

do we need to give all men vesectomies and reverse it when they are married? or freeze their sperm?

What is the solution for today?

The solution for today is the same as it has always been: keep sex within the bonds of marriage. And for those about to jump on me for my hypocritical behavior, I was not walking the Christian walk in high school, nor were my parents encouraging me to stay abstinent. I'm not making an excuse, but I certainly am not going to let my daughter grow up without making sure she understands the consequences of sex.

 

[dilloduck]

In today's depressed society, abstinence is not an option. If people don't have sex, then need to compensate through other means (sex IS and anti-depressant), Since society is very depressing... So instead of having sex, they can smoke, drink, do drugs, be violent etc.. but they have to do something.

how about mastubate and read a good book?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

In today's depressed society, abstinence is not an option. If people don't have sex, then need to compensate through other means (sex IS and anti-depressant), Since society is very depressing... So instead of having sex, they can smoke, drink, do drugs, be violent etc.. but they have to do something.

This post is utterly ludicrous. You absolve society and individuals from all personal responsibility and self control and instead promote human slaughter. You're depraved. The liberal worldview will only result in a backslide into barbarity, despite your unwarranted sense of your own moral superiority.

 

[r2200t]

Abstinence is not an option? Better off dead? You're thinking is perverted.

Yes, i am perverted, i'm a horny guy, when i talk to a gal, i think of sex most of the time... Last time i checked, that drive makes me normal, among honnest guys who are not affraid to say the truth. For me abstinence is not an option, sounds more like a waste of my life and partners life.

 

[5stringJeff]

In today's depressed society, abstinence is not an option. If people don't have sex, then need to compensate through other means (sex IS and anti-depressant), Since society is very depressing... So instead of having sex, they can smoke, drink, do drugs, be violent etc.. but they have to do something.

This is the most inane thing I think I've ever read on these boards. If people don't have sex they will be driven to violence and drugs?!? Give me a break.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Yes, i am perverted, i'm a horny guy, when i talk to a gal, i think of sex most of the time... Last time i checked, that drive makes me normal, among honnest guys who are not affraid to say the truth. For me abstinence is not an option, sounds more like a waste of my life and partners life.

The drive is animal. The self control you should have would make you human. However, in lieu of that...

Please try to evolve. And quit trying to bring society down with you.

 

[r2200t]

This post is utterly ludicrous. You absolve society and individuals from all personal responsibility and self control and instead promote human slaughter. You're depraved. The liberal worldview will only result in a backslide into barbarity, despite your unwarranted sense of your own moral superiority.

Last i checked, longtime liberal countries in europe are far from barbarians, quality of life is high, poverty (due to single moms) is low, no babies found in dumpsters every other weekend.

Barbarity can be associated with witch hunts, and stoning people to death.

Again, freedom of religion must be granted for all. So baning abortion on that basis, is unconstitutional (not that i know anything about the US constitution, but it should be)

Of course banning abortion for other reasons can be acceptible:
1. Fetus feels pain.
2. Can think??

 

[r2200t]

This is the most inane thing I think I've ever read on these boards. If people don't have sex they will be driven to violence and drugs?!? Give me a break.

Yes, sex is an anti-depressant, "a temporary solution to all your problems", like, for example, playing strenuous sports, getting drunk, geting high, etc...

I don't think it's inane.