Obama’s Team Including Victoria Nuland, Susan Rice, Alexander Vindman Told Zelensky to Reject Trump Deal in Violation of Logan Act.

[Curried Goats]

You could take 100% of American billionaires' income and wealth, and the country could run on it for a short period of time. There just isn't enough there to satisfy Congress' lust for power and wealth.

Because American production would stop? I don't understand this argument. The wealth created by American productivity would only run out if Americans stopped being productive. That isn't the issue. The issue is a handful of people keeping the vast majority of the proceeds of that production for themselves.

If I'm going to a neighbor already deep in debt, pleading for money, I certainly would not take with me an attitude demanding anything. I would expect to give something in exchange for the money, especially if I had something rare and valuable in my back yard.

That's not what I asked nor is it what Zelensky did. He didn't demand anything he just wasn't going to sit there while a soft boy told him he wasn't doing enough to make peace with a nation that invaded his country and murdered hundreds of millions of his people. He said as much that he wasn't going to put up with that bullshit framing.

For the umpteenth time, I shared my opinion based on my experiences. Why do you think your opinion matters?

I don't care if it matters to you I'm going to laugh at you anyway.

 

[hadit]

Because American production would stop? I don't understand this argument. The wealth created by American productivity would only run out if Americans stopped being productive. That isn't the issue. The issue is a handful of people keeping the vast majority of the proceeds of that production for themselves.

And that's not going to change just because you want to tax them more.

That's not what I asked nor is it what Zelensky did. He didn't demand anything he just wasn't going to sit there while a soft boy told him he wasn't doing enough to make peace with a nation that invaded his country and murdered hundreds of millions of his people. He said as much that he wasn't going to put up with that bullshit framing.

You're making my point for me.

I don't care if it matters to you I'm going to laugh at you anyway.

If you don't live here, you can laugh all you want at whatever headlines you get in the fever swamp.

 

[Curried Goats]

And that's not going to change just because you want to tax them more.

Why not?

You're making my point for me.

No... you've strawmaned and then avoided answering the question I asked you. That sort of public fragility makes my point.

If you don't live here, you can laugh all you want at whatever headlines you get in the fever swamp.

So now you're back to arguing experience matters? What does it matter if you live there and aren't Black American? White Supremacy isn't targeting you.

 

[Mac-7]

Susan Rice's interview on MSNBC is telling for 2 main reasons, both revealed in first minutes in same sentence: "Zelensky was compelled to agree to a horrible deal that would have sent Ukraine's minerals to the United States" without any concrete security guarantees." 1/

Is there such a thing?

Ukraine was promised security by bill clinton in exchange for giving up its nukes and that didnt stop putin from aggression

The best security guarantee is a strong republican president like trump or hopefully JD Vance someday

 

[hadit]

Why not?

1. They will alter their behavior to move more of their wealth and income out of reach of the envious.
2. They will make wealth and income simply disappear.
3. They will, if necessary, simply pack up and move the bulk of their wealth to a tax-friendly haven.

The ultra-wealthy do not get that way by being stupid, and they are averse to standing idly by while the envious rummage through their belongings, looking for anything of value. Notice that even the liberal ultra-wealthy who wail about not paying enough in taxes hire tax attorneys to make their bill as small as possible.

No... you've strawmaned and then avoided answering the question I asked you. That sort of public fragility makes my point.

Let's see, your complaint wasn't a question, it was:

"It doesn't seem like that to me. It seems like he was frustrated by a couple of soft ass grifters with mani petty nails telling him about how he has to do more to make peace with the people who invaded him as he's looking for ways to fend them off."

To which the only reasonable response is, "Yup, TDS, Orange Man Bad". He was in the position of a beggar, and our leadership team was in the position of the donor living large on credit cards, reluctant to simply throw wealth and weapons at a situation. He had a bad attitude and couldn't bully his way out of the situation like he'd become accustomed to doing with Quid Pro Joe.

So now you're back to arguing experience matters? What does it matter if you live there and aren't Black American? White Supremacy isn't targeting you.

White Supremacy has nothing to do with me. Look, I shared my opinion based on my experience and you're determined to go off into the weeds ranting about White Supremacy. It doesn't track. Now, you can continue doing that if you want, but you'll be arguing something unrelated to what I'm saying, and that's pretty lame.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Will you apologize when Trump ends the war?

Peace means surrendering to Russia Because they want peace. Peace is bad.

 

[struth]

Which says what? Do you know? It's not a peace deal. It doesn't end the war.

Nope. But go ahead and be a little ***** who can't address my argument and has to play pretend instead.

I read just fine. Like you saying Musk was cutting fraud, waste and abuse. Fraud and abuse are crimes. If he's not catching that then all that leaves are government programs a billionaire feels is wasteful.

1) I never said it was a peace deal, we don't need a peace deal with Ukraine, Russia and Ukraine need a peace deal. This is step towards that. Here's a link that breaks down the min deal for you: Breaking Down the U.S.-Ukraine Minerals Deal

Here's a link to the text of the agreement: https://www.reuters.com/markets/dea...aine-developing-critical-minerals-2025-02-26/

2) what arguement? You got caught lying about the exchange, that's all that's happened here

3) Musk isn't a police officer or FBI agent, he doesn't charge people with crimes you idiot.

 

[Curried Goats]

1. They will alter their behavior to move more of their wealth and income out of reach of the envious.
2. They will make wealth and income simply disappear.
3. They will, if necessary, simply pack up and move the bulk of their wealth to a tax-friendly haven.

So close tax loop holes and go after tax havens. I don't know so many of you proudly proclaim giving up as your policy.

The ultra-wealthy do not get that way by being stupid, and they are averse to standing idly by while the envious rummage through their belongings, looking for anything of value. Notice that even the liberal ultra-wealthy who wail about not paying enough in taxes hire tax attorneys to make their bill as small as possible.

They get that way by paying off the government to write laws and tax codes that benefit them. Let's do the opposite of that.

Let's see, your complaint wasn't a question, it was:

"It doesn't seem like that to me. It seems like he was frustrated by a couple of soft ass grifters with mani petty nails telling him about how he has to do more to make peace with the people who invaded him as he's looking for ways to fend them off."

To which the only reasonable response is, "Yup, TDS, Orange Man Bad". He was in the position of a beggar, and our leadership team was in the position of the donor living large on credit cards, reluctant to simply throw wealth and weapons at a situation. He had a bad attitude and couldn't bully his way out of the situation like he'd become accustomed to doing with Quid Pro Joe.

I can't help it of you're so uneducated that you think strawmen and ad hominems are reasonable responses.

White Supremacy has nothing to do with me. Look, I shared my opinion based on my experience and you're determined to go off into the weeds ranting about White Supremacy. It doesn't track. Now, you can continue doing that if you want, but you'll be arguing something unrelated to what I'm saying, and that's pretty lame.

I know you shared your opinion. It's your opinion that I'm laughing at.

 

[Mac-7]

@Hadit said:

And that's not going to change just because you want to tax them more.

Curried Goats daid:

Why not?

Because the rich are not dummies

There are ways to protect their wealth from people like you

At best all you can do is turn energetic businessman into the idle rich who just sit on their gold

 

[Mac-7]

Curried Goats said:

Why not?

Because the rich are not dummies

There are ways to protect their wealth from people like you

At best all you can do is turn energetic businessman into the idle rich who just sit on their gold

 

[Curried Goats]

1) I never said it was a peace deal, we don't need a peace deal with Ukraine, Russia and Ukraine need a peace deal. This is step towards that. Here's a link that breaks down the min deal for you: Breaking Down the U.S.-Ukraine Minerals Deal

Here's a link to the text of the agreement: https://www.reuters.com/markets/dea...aine-developing-critical-minerals-2025-02-26/

Explain what about this deal you think is a step towards peace. There's nothing in the deal about peace. In fact it's a deal about Americans investing in future Ukrainian mineral projects. Zelensky hopes this investment will compel America to continue to fund and aid his effort to repel Russian invaders because the deal relies on the stability of the Ukrainian State. The deal is meant to get us more invested in the war.

2) what arguement? You got caught lying about the exchange, that's all that's happened here

I didn't. I have accurately describe Trump and Vance suggesting to Zelensky that he isn't doing enough to end the war and make peace with the country who invaded him and murdered hundreds of thousands of his people because it happened on video. When you're prepared to comment on that you let me know.

3) Musk isn't a police officer or FBI agent, he doesn't charge people with crimes you idiot.

So then he isn't finding fraud then is he? That just leave a billionaire being allowed by the President to cut government programs that billionaire doesn't like.

 

[Curried Goats]

Curried Goats said:

Why not?

Because the rich are not dummies

There are ways to protect their wealth from people like you

At best all you can do is turn energetic businessman into the idle rich who just sit on their gold

Listen, I'm okay with your argument being that the rich are too smart and too capable for you to hold them accountable. That isn't my argument though. I'm prepared to address their efforts to tax dodge as they creep up. We haven't even gotten there yet and the lot of you have already bitched out.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Clinton and Biden and Mickey Woo have nothing to do with this.

Security guarantees and Trump gets the rare earth and mentals. No other way.

 

[struth]

Explain what about this deal you think is a step towards peace. There's nothing in the deal about peace. In fact it's a deal about Americans investing in future Ukrainian mineral projects. Zelensky hopes this investment will compel America to continue to fund and aid his effort to repel Russian invaders because the deal relies on the stability of the Ukrainian State. The deal is meant to get us more invested in the war.

I didn't. I have accurately describe Trump and Vance suggesting to Zelensky that he isn't doing enough to end the war and make peace with the country who invaded him and murdered hundreds of thousands of his people because it happened on video. When you're prepared to comment on that you let me know.

So then he isn't finding fraud then is he? That just leave a billionaire being allowed by the President to cut government programs that billionaire doesn't like.

1) sure, it helps bring about peace because it gives Ukraine security, with US investments directly in the country. Countries, like Russia are far less likely to invade when the United States is there.

2) No you didn't, you lied, and were called out for it. You claimed Z was being insulted by trump when he wasn't.

3) No, it just means he has no authority to charge anyone with a crime. Just like I don't or you don't. That doesn't mean either of us can't call it out when we see it. The fact he is successful doesn't change that.

 

[Mac-7]

Listen, I'm okay with your argument being that the rich are too smart and too capable for you to hold them accountable. That isn't my argument though. I'm prepared to address their efforts to tax dodge as they creep up. We haven't even gotten there yet and the lot of you have already bitched out.

The leftwing desire to soak the rich is what I am discussing

Which is off topic for this thread but its where we are

As for premature bitching that would be libs freaking out over horrors that have not even happened yet

 

[kyzr]

Listen, I'm okay with your argument being that the rich are too smart and too capable for you to hold them accountable. That isn't my argument though. I'm prepared to address their efforts to tax dodge as they creep up. We haven't even gotten there yet and the lot of you have already bitched out.

Not to jump in to the middle of a discussion, but if the democrats eventually get back in power, and pass a "wealth tax", what trigger and what percentage do you predict? Over a $billion? Over $500m?
5% x $5T = $25b (from 756 billionaires only)
10%. = $50b
15% = $75b. Eventually you kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

United States — Real-time billionaires

realtimebillionaires.de

 

[Curried Goats]

1) sure, it helps bring about peace because it gives Ukraine security, with US investments directly in the country. Countries, like Russia are far less likely to invade when the United States is there.

They have invaded. It already happened. American investment isn't going to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

2) No you didn't, you lied, and were called out for it. You claimed Z was being insulted by trump when he wasn't.

It's not insulting to sit across from a draft dodger and be told that you aren't doing enough to make peace with a country that invaded you and killed hundreds of thousands of your people? It would be insulting to me. Maybe you like that sort of victim blaming?

3) No, it just means he has no authority to charge anyone with a crime. Just like I don't or you don't. That doesn't mean either of us can't call it out when we see it. The fact he is successful doesn't change that.

He's not just calling it out though. He's cutting government programs and firing workers left and right. You said it's because of fraud , waste and abuse but can't give me any details on the fraud or abuse. That just leaves things a billionaire feels is wasteful.

 

[Curried Goats]

Not to jump in to the middle of a discussion, but if the democrats eventually get back in power, and pass a "wealth tax", what trigger and what percentage do you predict? Over a $billion? Over $500m?
5% x $5T = $25b (from 756 billionaires only)
10%. = $50b
15% = $75b. Eventually you kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

United States — Real-time billionaires

realtimebillionaires.de

I don't do fantasizing about what people in the future are going to do. I leave the fantasy arguments for others around here.

 

[Blisterfinger]

The return is opposition to Russian aggression and imperialism at the cost of dollars rather than U.S. soldiers. If you ask me that sounds like a good discount.

It is a losing cause so there is no return

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Dems will pass a wealth tax in 2029.