Obama’s Team Including Victoria Nuland, Susan Rice, Alexander Vindman Told Zelensky to Reject Trump Deal in Violation of Logan Act.

[hadit]

They clearly have fallen into the Cult of Zelenski.

It is weird that they love him so.

It is truly bizarre. They openly admire the guy who does things for which they would crucify an American leader.

 

[hadit]

I wouldn't of nuked Japan but these are all just opinions. The question is what are you about? I'm about helping a nation we promised to help in exchange for them giving up their nukes, with funding and weapons to help them repell a foreign invader for as long as they are willing.

We made a verbal assurance back in 1994 (to my knowledge) that was not ratified on paper and did not have the commitment of the American people. Now you can say we are obligated because of that, but then that opens the door to holding America responsible for every comment an American president makes to a foreign leader, and I don't think the American people are going to support that.

I'm not suggesting that he has the power to dictate anything to us.

He seems to think he does, based on how he's been acting, and the usual suspects are waxing apoplectic at the thought that we might actually stop supporting him.

And? What does that have to do with what? If experience matters in this case as your argument indicates then it's the experiences of Black Americans that in this case.

I'm simply commenting on an observation someone else made that mirrors my own experience.

 

[Curried Goats]

We made a verbal assurance back in 1994 (to my knowledge) that was not ratified on paper and did not have the commitment of the American people. Now you can say we are obligated because of that, but then that opens the door to holding America responsible for every comment an American president makes to a foreign leader, and I don't think the American people are going to support that.

I don't care what everyone else supports. I'm telling you what I support. Did all those other agreements include a country giving up nuclear weapons in exchange for assurances we'd have their back in a time of crisis? My question to you isn't about your fantasies about what everyone else would support in all those other situations, it's about what you support in this one.

He seems to think he does, based on how he's been acting, and the usual suspects are waxing apoplectic at the thought that we might actually stop supporting him.

It doesn't seem like that to me. It seems like he was frustrated by a couple of soft ass grifters with mani petty nails telling him about how he has to do more to make peace with the people who invaded him as he's looking for ways to fend them off.

I'm simply commenting on an observation someone else made that mirrors my own experience.

And that experience from you two is supposed to mean what to me? Are either of you two black american?

 

[hadit]

I don't care what everyone else supports. I'm telling you what I support. Did all those other agreements include a country giving up nuclear weapons in exchange for assurances we'd have their back in a time of crisis? My question to you isn't about your fantasies about what everyone else would support in all those other situations, it's about what you support in this one.

What I support is America not getting drawn into a proxy war with Russia that ignites a much bigger conflict and results in many more dead.

It doesn't seem like that to me. It seems like he was frustrated by a couple of soft ass grifters with mani petty nails telling him about how he has to do more to make peace with the people who invaded him as he's looking for ways to fend them off.

Of course you would think that. Orange Mad Bad so dictates.

And that experience from you two is supposed to mean what to me?

Absolutely nothing. YOU chose to get involved in the conservation about it, we didn't do anything to make you.

 

[Curried Goats]

What I support is America not getting drawn into a proxy war with Russia that ignites a much bigger conflict and results in many more dead.

Ok. So you want to tell Ukraine they're on their own? Then we just disagree. See how easy that is?

Of course you would think that. Orange Mad Bad so dictates.

I didn't say Orange man Bad. You did. I said Trump and Vance suggested that he wasn't doing enough to make peace with his invaders because that's what they did. On video. Strawmaning me is some soft boy shit. You should want to fight the steel man rather than the strawman if you were confident in yourself.

Absolutely nothing. YOU chose to get involved in the conservation about it, we didn't do anything to make you.

I know what I chose. I chose to laugh at you two providing your experiences of white supremacy.

 

[hadit]

Ok. So you want to tell Ukraine they're on their own? Then we just disagree. See how easy that is?

Actually, I want Europe to step up and take a more active role in defending itself from Russian aggression instead of insisting that Uncle Sam spend treasure and blood doing it.

I didn't say Orange man Bad. You did. I said Trump and Vance suggested that he wasn't doing enough to make peace with his invaders because that's what they did. On video. Strawmaning me is some soft boy shit. You should want to fight the steel man rather than the strawman if you were confident in yourself.

If you can find a steel man, let me know.

I know what I chose. I chose to laugh at you two providing your experiences of white supremacy.

Then complained that I shouldn't expect you to care about my opinion when I never said you should. Now, that's weak. And what's this supremacy stuff you dug out of the trash can?

 

[Curried Goats]

Actually, I want Europe to step up and take a more active role in defending itself from Russian aggression instead of insisting that Uncle Sam spend treasure and blood doing it.

Who doesnt want Europe to help more?

If you can find a steel man, let me know.

I just presented it to you and you came back at me with Orange Man Bad. You did that.

Then complained that I shouldn't expect you to care about my opinion when I never said you should. Now, that's weak. And what's this supremacy stuff you dug out of the trash can?

No, I asked you why I should care about your opinion. If you were black American then it would at least have some value to me. And the white supremacy stuff had to do with my Confederacy comments that you were commenting on. Are you confused about the connection between the Confederacy and white supremacy?

 

[hadit]

Who doesnt want Europe to help more?

Sure, people say that, but TRUMP! has the recipe to actually make them do it, by withdrawing American funding. As long as that kept going, European nations had no incentive to do more than offer token assistance. It's like Americans today proudly stating, "I stand with Ukraine", but never, EVER intending to pack a bag and head to Ukraine, offering themselves as warriors on the battlefield. As long as they don't have to do anything, they'll proclaim solidarity, but when offered the opportunity to put actions to words, they melt away.

I just presented it to you and you came back at me with Orange Man Bad. You did that.

I was noting that you seem duty bound to put the most negative spin on anything and everything even remotely connected to TRUMP!. That is a major symptom of TDS caused by exposure to Orange Man Bad.

No, I asked you why I should care about your opinion. If you were black American then it would at least have some value to me. And the white supremacy stuff had to do with my Confederacy comments that you were commenting on. Are you confused about the connection between the Confederacy and white supremacy?

I know that I'm not a white supremacist and that your comment was lost on me because it meant nothing. Feel free to ignore my opinion because it wasn't given to you. Obviously, you care enough about it that you keep commenting on it.

 

[Curried Goats]

Sure, people say that, but TRUMP! has the recipe to actually make them do it, by withdrawing American funding. As long as that kept going, European nations had no incentive to do more than offer token assistance. It's like Americans today proudly stating, "I stand with Ukraine", but never, EVER intending to pack a bag and head to Ukraine, offering themselves as warriors on the battlefield. As long as they don't have to do anything, they'll proclaim solidarity, but when offered the opportunity to put actions to words, they melt away.

Well see we have different goals. My goal would be to fulfill our promises to a nation who gave up nuclear weapons in exchange for assistance should they ever need it. Not to compel better assistance from Europe. That would be nice but not the main objective. As for what I claim solidarity to, it's to supporting their resistance with my and your tax dollars. You sure you're not just strawmaning again? You have a history.....

I was noting that you seem duty bound to put the most negative spin on anything and everything even remotely connected to TRUMP!. That is a major symptom of TDS caused by exposure to Orange Man Bad.

And I'm noting all the fantasizing and strawmaning you're doing rather than addressing my actual comments. I'm happy to give Trump credit where I find agreement like the prison reform bill he passed during his first term.

I know that I'm not a white supremacist and that your comment was lost on me because it meant nothing. Feel free to ignore my opinion because it wasn't given to you. Obviously, you care enough about it that you keep commenting on it.

But I don't want to ignore it. I want to laugh at it. Its funny. Like how you tried to come back at me arguing about experience with white supremacy without the self awareness to realize that maybe the experiences of Black Americans on white supremacy is more pertinent in this instance. You said you don't see that discrimination in the former capital of the Confederacy correct? Did you miss the recent news of republican school districts in Virginia actually renaming schools after Confederates, in this century? How do you think little black children feel about the prevalence of white supremacy after being made to attend schools named to honor people who wanted to own their ancestors as property by their current law makers?

 

[hadit]

Well see we have different goals. My goal would be to fulfill our promises to a nation who gave up nuclear weapons in exchange for assistance should they ever need it. Not to compel better assistance from Europe. That would be nice but not the main objective. As for what I claim solidarity to, it's to supporting their resistance with my and your tax dollars. You sure you're not just strawmaninging again? You have a history.....

And we've been fulfilling that promise, only now the American president is noting that we cannot afford to just keep blindly tossing money and weapons at them. If they want our help, they will need to do it our way. It's the golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Only America is expected to give aid and assistance only as dictated by those we're helping.

And I'm noting all the fantasizing and strawmaning you're doing rather than addressing my actual comments. I'm happy to give Trump credit where I find agreement like the prison reform bill he passed during his first term.

Good, keep that up and you might yet not get a full-blown case of TDS.

But I don't want to ignore it. I want to laugh at it. Its funny. Like how you tried to come back at me arguing about experience with white supremacy without the self awareness to realize that maybe the experiences of Black Americans on white supremacy is more pertinent in this instance. You said you don't see that discrimination in the former capital of the Confederacy correct? Did you miss the recent news of republican school districts in Virginia actually renaming schools after Confederates, in this century? How do you think little black children feel about the prevalence of white supremacy after being made to attend schools named to honor people who wanted to own their ancestors as property by their current law makers?

I say I don't see racial animus in day-to-day interactions between people, where it counts.

 

[Curried Goats]

And we've been fulfilling that promise, only now the American president is noting that we cannot afford to just keep blindly tossing money and weapons at them. If they want our help, they will need to do it our way. It's the golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Only America is expected to give aid and assistance only as dictated by those we're helping.

I'm okay with you establishing what your rules are and how you would comport yourselves. What exactly do you and Trump stand for? Preying on a nation we promised to help in the midsts of them fighting off an invasion?

Good, keep that up and you might yet not get a full-blown case of TDS.

You're the one who can't address my actual criticism of Trump and have instead resorted to this lame ass name calling as your counter argument. Maybe you have the Trump derangement syndrome. Don't be so frail about your boy.

I say I don't see racial animus in day-to-day interactions between people, where it counts.

Are you Black American though?

 

[Pappadave1]

Well see we have different goals. My goal would be to fulfill our promises to a nation who gave up nuclear weapons in exchange for assistance should they ever need it. Not to compel better assistance from Europe. That would be nice but not the main objective. As for what I claim solidarity to, it's to supporting their resistance with my and your tax dollars. You sure you're not just strawmaning again? You have a history.....

And I'm noting all the fantasizing and strawmaning you're doing rather than addressing my actual comments. I'm happy to give Trump credit where I find agreement like the prison reform bill he passed during his first term.

But I don't want to ignore it. I want to laugh at it. Its funny. Like how you tried to come back at me arguing about experience with white supremacy without the self awareness to realize that maybe the experiences of Black Americans on white supremacy is more pertinent in this instance. You said you don't see that discrimination in the former capital of the Confederacy correct? Did you miss the recent news of republican school districts in Virginia actually renaming schools after Confederates, in this century? How do you think little black children feel about the prevalence of white supremacy after being made to attend schools named to honor people who wanted to own their ancestors as property by their current law makers?

Problem is, it wasn't the U.S. that pledged to defend Ukraine if they gave their nukes to Russia. THAT promise was made BY Russia.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

 

[hadit]

I'm okay with you establishing what your rules are and how you would comport yourselves. What exactly do you and Trump stand for? Preying on a nation we promised to help in the midsts of them fighting off an invasion?

Hardly. I can't speak for TRUMP!, I can only speak for myself. I don't hold the delusion that a foil helmet gives me mindreading powers. That being said, I stand for America being wise with giving aid, especially in a war. We are deep in debt and can't afford the budgets routinely passed, so it doesn't make sense to just blindly toss money and weapons at a war, thinking it's going to stop the killing.

You're the one who can't address my actual criticism of Trump and have instead resorted to this lame ass name calling as your counter argument. Maybe you have the Trump derangement syndrome. Don't be so frail about your boy.

Yeah, I know, you thought TRUMP! was the bad guy in the Z man's dressing down for the way he behaved. Note, however, that it resulted in the desired outcome, Z man is now willing to sign on, where he wasn't before.

Are you Black American though?

How does that matter when I note the interactions that I see? Are you pretending it's 1954 and black Americans are afraid to look a white person in the eye for fear of retaliation?

 

[Curried Goats]

Problem is, it wasn't the U.S. that pledged to defend Ukraine if they gave their nukes to Russia. THAT promise was made BY Russia.

It was made by us Russia and the U.K.

 

[hadit]

View attachment 1085726

Did any of them commit to multiple years of multi-billion-dollar payouts and lots of weapons?

 

[struth]

Again, what deal? You can't even describe the deal. You didn't even know that Zelensky wants the deal to include no conceding of territory to Russia. Do you understand the difference between him being open to some sort of mineral rights deal and them actually having one ironed out? No? I wouldn't doubt it. You're particularly stupid.

I did watch the interview. I saw a couple of soft ass white boys who don't look like they've ever thrown a punch telling a man fighting a war that he isn't don't enough and that he needs to do more to make peace with a man who invaded his country, killed hundreds of thousands of his people and has reneged on previous peace deals.

So he's not finding fraud? He's just cutting programs he doesn't like?

I think some of that is tax money. You can't really earn money without a society and government around you.

1) they have a min deal ironed out

2) so you agree he was disrespectful and rude and you lied about trump

3) huh? You can’t read

4) it’s not your money.

 

[Curried Goats]

Hardly. I can't speak for TRUMP!, I can only speak for myself. I don't hold the delusion that a foil helmet gives me mindreading powers. That being said, I stand for America being wise with giving aid, especially in a war. We are deep in debt and can't afford the budgets routinely passed, so it doesn't make sense to just blindly toss money and weapons at a war, thinking it's going to stop the killing.

It also doesn't make sense to think not sending aid will stop the killing. They aren't dying for lack of aid but because of a violent Russian invasion. And my proposal for dealing with our budget shortfall is to raise taxes on the billionaires rather than deleting government obligations in order to give them another tax break.

Yeah, I know, you thought TRUMP! was the bad guy in the Z man's dressing down for the way he behaved. Note, however, that it resulted in the desired outcome, Z man is now willing to sign on, where he wasn't before.

He showed up to talk about a deal because he was interested in one even before the insulting and yes, I found it insulting for them to suggest he wasnt doing enough to make peace with his invaders. Would you find that insulting if you were in a similar position or would you bow your head and say yes to the draft dodger that you hadn't done enough to make peace with the nation who invaded you and murdered hundreds of thousands of your people?

How does that matter when I note the interactions that I see? Are you pretending it's 1954 and black Americans are afraid to look a white person in the eye for fear of retaliation?

Well, you're the one who introduced the idea that experience matters. It's Black Americans who are the targets of white supremacy so it's their experience that matters. I thought me holding your hand and walking you to that conclusion was obvious.

 

[hadit]

It also doesn't make sense to think not sending aid will stop the killing. They aren't dying for lack of aid but because of a violent Russian invasion. And my proposal for dealing with our budget shortfall is to raise taxes on the billionaires rather than deleting government obligations in order to give them another tax break.

You could take 100% of American billionaires' income and wealth, and the country could run on it for a short period of time. There just isn't enough there to satisfy Congress' lust for power and wealth.

He showed up to talk about a deal because he was interested in one even before the insulting and yes, I found it insulting for them to suggest he wasnt doing enough to make peace with his invaders. Would you find that insulting if you were in a similar position or would you bow your head and say yes to the draft dodger that you hadn't done enough to make peace with the nation who invaded you and murdered hundreds of thousands of your people?

If I'm going to a neighbor already deep in debt, pleading for money, I certainly would not take with me an attitude demanding anything. I would expect to give something in exchange for the money, especially if I had something rare and valuable in my back yard.

Well, you're the one who introduced the idea that experience matters. It's Black Americans who are the targets of white supremacy so it's their experience that matters. I thought me holding your hand and walking you to that conclusion was obvious.

For the umpteenth time, I shared my opinion based on my experiences. Why do you think your opinion matters?

 

[Curried Goats]

1) they have a min deal ironed out

Which says what? Do you know? It's not a peace deal. It doesn't end the war.

2) so you agree he was disrespectful and rude and you lied about trump

Nope. But go ahead and be a little ***** who can't address my argument and has to play pretend instead.

3) huh? You can’t read

I read just fine. Like you saying Musk was cutting fraud, waste and abuse. Fraud and abuse are crimes. If he's not catching that then all that leaves are government programs a billionaire feels is wasteful.

4) it’s not your money.