Obama vs. Afghanistan

[namvet]

Ah.....funny how Military members aren't DD'd for being gay....only OTH. Methinks you are looking a little suspicious there.

I was referring to MM's faggot army which he claims he has

There was no claim of an army.

However, YOU claimed military service, which since you can't/won't back, it's a lie.

You are a coward and a liar, a lunatic fringer who wants the CinC assassinated. What more can be said?

YOU claimed military service, which since you can't/won't back, it's a lie.

prove it. im bettin the farm you can't. your to stupid

 

[ctandc]

Wow...

As a new member, I was told this place was a pretty good sounding board for discussion on the hot topics facing our country today, as they relate to foreign policy.

NamVet

I printed some of your posts and showed them to two friends of mine. Actually the Fathers of two of my friends,and they couldn't believe your posts. Much less your claim of military service.

Actually one of them said that if you DID server your country honorably, then you definitely deserve respect and thanks for that..but the things you've posted don't really show you to be a 60 year old + vet. I'm basing the 60 year old age on the assumption you were a minimum of 18 years old when your started serving in Vietnam (as you've stated repeatedly) in 1966, which would make your 61 years old in '09.

While I'm definitely no Obama fan, saying he deserves to be impeached is just stupid. And the fact that thousands of people have signed an online petition just shows me the greatest enemy we face as a country is not terrorism, but ignorance.

I probably wouldn't have posted anything until you posted a remark about the soldiers being "target practice for the Taliban". I take special offense to that. As a vet and as a current civilian who has friends who are currently serving in Aghanistan and other ME locations in several different capacities, that really chapped my ass.

There are a HUGE amount of misconceptions about Afghanistan, Iraq, and every other facet of our current issues in the Middle East.

For those saying that pulling out is the best bet, you might want to remember that Pakistan is a nucleur nation. And an Islamic nation. America pulling out troops and support would definitely sway many to the Anti-American sentiment that drives many of the terrorist groups recruiting...not to mention playing right into the hands of the Taliban and other Islamic "purest" groups who want a complete Caliphic rule in their countries.

Knowledge is never a bad thing. And how can you actually have an opinion on an issue you don't truly understand?

I applaud you for your service to your country. It's not my place to worry about whether or not your truly served or not. I will take you at your word. While there are many comparisons between Afghanistan and Vietnam (the Cambodian border issue mentioned for example) the two conflicts are totally different, even if you just understand that the VC and NVA never actively ran terrorist operations against Americans on American soil. That along is enough to make the two stand clearly apart.

 

[namvet]

Wow...

As a new member, I was told this place was a pretty good sounding board for discussion on the hot topics facing our country today, as they relate to foreign policy.

NamVet

I printed some of your posts and showed them to two friends of mine. Actually the Fathers of two of my friends,and they couldn't believe your posts. Much less your claim of military service.

Actually one of them said that if you DID server your country honorably, then you definitely deserve respect and thanks for that..but the things you've posted don't really show you to be a 60 year old + vet. I'm basing the 60 year old age on the assumption you were a minimum of 18 years old when your started serving in Vietnam (as you've stated repeatedly) in 1966, which would make your 61 years old in '09.

While I'm definitely no Obama fan, saying he deserves to be impeached is just stupid. And the fact that thousands of people have signed an online petition just shows me the greatest enemy we face as a country is not terrorism, but ignorance.

I probably wouldn't have posted anything until you posted a remark about the soldiers being "target practice for the Taliban". I take special offense to that. As a vet and as a current civilian who has friends who are currently serving in Aghanistan and other ME locations in several different capacities, that really chapped my ass.

There are a HUGE amount of misconceptions about Afghanistan, Iraq, and every other facet of our current issues in the Middle East.

For those saying that pulling out is the best bet, you might want to remember that Pakistan is a nucleur nation. And an Islamic nation. America pulling out troops and support would definitely sway many to the Anti-American sentiment that drives many of the terrorist groups recruiting...not to mention playing right into the hands of the Taliban and other Islamic "purest" groups who want a complete Caliphic rule in their countries.

Knowledge is never a bad thing. And how can you actually have an opinion on an issue you don't truly understand?

I applaud you for your service to your country. It's not my place to worry about whether or not your truly served or not. I will take you at your word. While there are many comparisons between Afghanistan and Vietnam (the Cambodian border issue mentioned for example) the two conflicts are totally different, even if you just understand that the VC and NVA never actively ran terrorist operations against Americans on American soil. That along is enough to make the two stand clearly apart.

I am a tool when I get angry. and there was cause for it here. im also a little older than you said. I did serve but my screen name does draw a lot of fire from liberals. for running my country down and flaming the 58K who died in my war. that's when i put the brass knuckles on. and i show no mercy.
afghan IS vietnam 2. not gonna convince me otherwise. this illegal government has left them there to die. they are moving targets. the democrats WILL stop the funding and that will end it. if they were gonna do something it would have long before now.
so. leave them to die or bring them home??? I am a member on 2 military forums. but this is political. big diff. they know who i am. i could care less about political

my late dad and uncle served in ww2. i am thankful their not alive to see this horrific mess this country is in.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

my late dad and uncle served in ww2.

don't start-del

 

[Gunny]

Those that this applies to ... and I assume you easily know who you are .... knock the shit off or I'll lock this thread tighter'n a frog's ass. This subforum is NOT in the Flame Zone. Either get your arguments back on track and be civil, or it's done.

I issued a challenge to namvet via VM. Get hot or back down. Your choice.

Gunny

 

[Mike458877]

I have to agree about not pulling out of Afghanistan. In turn though, if we are placing our brothers and sisters in harms way, then they need to be properly support and directed. If the current leadership simply will not do that, then in spite of all of the other issues, IMO, they need to pull them out.

On the radio this evening on the 8pm news cast I heard in passing that Obama was going to announce a influx of troops for after the first of the year and that though significant, it would not be near the amount requested.

Now, until this comes from the White House, then it is just talk on the news and hearsay. However, if that is what takes place, I will be terribly disappointed and concerned for our men and women. That would be nearly 5 months after the request and not meeting the generals needed requirements. Again, this is merely hearsay at this point, but, if it comes to pass or anything remotely similar, then IMO it is a clear sign that Obama is not capable of the job of Commander in Chief and that playing politics with American lives is the order of the day for his White House. Something which for me is totally unacceptable.

Given the overall instability of the entire region, the weapons held by two of the nations and of course the ongoing terror breeding grounds, yes, it is vital that we have an influence there in many areas, but, we have to be committed to our own first, before we can commit to anyone or anything else!

Gunny, I agree with your request this thread has not only gotten way off track, but, some very unsavory things have been said. I too would like to continue the discussion without them.

Mike

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I have to agree about not pulling out of Afghanistan. In turn though, if we are placing our brothers and sisters in harms way, then they need to be properly support and directed. If the current leadership simply will not do that, then in spite of all of the other issues, IMO, they need to pull them out.

On the radio this evening on the 8pm news cast I heard in passing that Obama was going to announce a influx of troops for after the first of the year and that though significant, it would not be near the amount requested.

Now, until this comes from the White House, then it is just talk on the news and hearsay. However, if that is what takes place, I will be terribly disappointed and concerned for our men and women. That would be nearly 5 months after the request and not meeting the generals needed requirements. Again, this is merely hearsay at this point, but, if it comes to pass or anything remotely similar, then IMO it is a clear sign that Obama is not capable of the job of Commander in Chief and that playing politics with American lives is the order of the day for his White House. Something which for me is totally unacceptable.

Given the overall instability of the entire region, the weapons held by two of the nations and of course the ongoing terror breeding grounds, yes, it is vital that we have an influence there in many areas, but, we have to be committed to our own first, before we can commit to anyone or anything else!

Gunny, I agree with your request this thread has not only gotten way off track, but, some very unsavory things have been said. I too would like to continue the discussion without them.

Mike

Dude, your posts are really hard on the eyes. I wish you would drop the formatting.

I agree with you on principle, but I think there's some dynamics of this we're not seeing, that we might never see.

An example is, Obama has ordered more predator drones. I support that and hope Congress funds it. But it leads me to believe he might be looking to the future of warfare, at least for the United States, which might not include near as many boots on the ground. Which to me is a good thing. But we don't know if that's the idea.

We can kill the enemy from comfortable consoles in Denver, with an un-manned drone vehicle two miles up, and do it on the cheap. And at little risk to American lives. If this is the future of warfare and this future is soon, I really don't see the sense in putting 40,000 more troops in.

Granted, these are all very big if's.

 

[Gunny]

I have to agree about not pulling out of Afghanistan. In turn though, if we are placing our brothers and sisters in harms way, then they need to be properly support and directed. If the current leadership simply will not do that, then in spite of all of the other issues, IMO, they need to pull them out.

On the radio this evening on the 8pm news cast I heard in passing that Obama was going to announce a influx of troops for after the first of the year and that though significant, it would not be near the amount requested.

Now, until this comes from the White House, then it is just talk on the news and hearsay. However, if that is what takes place, I will be terribly disappointed and concerned for our men and women. That would be nearly 5 months after the request and not meeting the generals needed requirements. Again, this is merely hearsay at this point, but, if it comes to pass or anything remotely similar, then IMO it is a clear sign that Obama is not capable of the job of Commander in Chief and that playing politics with American lives is the order of the day for his White House. Something which for me is totally unacceptable.

Given the overall instability of the entire region, the weapons held by two of the nations and of course the ongoing terror breeding grounds, yes, it is vital that we have an influence there in many areas, but, we have to be committed to our own first, before we can commit to anyone or anything else!

Gunny, I agree with your request this thread has not only gotten way off track, but, some very unsavory things have been said. I too would like to continue the discussion without them.

Mike

I don't believe throwing troops at the matter is the answer. International diplomacy and/or cooperation is. Thes people are criminals. Turf wars should be set aside to take them out.

Otherwise, we are spinning our wheels, and it IS costing lives.

 

[eagleseven]

I've got three good friends going to Afghanistan, and two in Iraq. Obama better not be playing politics with their lives...

 

[Si modo]

I've got three good friends going to Afghanistan, and two in Iraq. Obama better not be playing politics with their lives...

At this point, that ship giving him the benefit of the doubt on that has sailed.

 

[eagleseven]

At this point, that ship giving him the benefit of the doubt on that has sailed.

I'm glad my stomach is empty, cuz otherwise I'd hurl.

Bastard.

 

[Si modo]

At this point, that ship giving him the benefit of the doubt on that has sailed.

I'm glad my stomach is empty, cuz otherwise I'd hurl.

Bastard.

Sorry. I didn't want to believe it either, but he has not done a thing since Labor Day when the military told him what they need.

 

[Mike458877]

Midnight, I'm not sure what you mean by my formatting. I am placing the quotes at the top, is this correct?

I completely agree about "we" not knowing many of the particulars in the broader picture. I also support more drones, as they are a good asset. I also agree with and support what you term as future warfare, however, I feel we need to get to that point first.

IMO, drones, air power, surgical ground operations and relying on the locals alone will not get us to a comfortable place, where we could then properly manage with "future warfare".

Gunny, I agree and I think through the discussion have touched on it, that much more is needed than throwing troops at the situation. However, that is one part on the picture and I must believe in the commanders on the ground are requesting them, along with many other assets, then they need them.

I believe you mentioned it in a earlier post about the larger problem being our overall lack of decisive planning, objectives and end game. I believe you nailed it there, we need that before we can build the cooperation and International relationships.

Good comments and though my gripe is the great hesitation from the White House and serious lack of decisiveness, my view is much broader and not as narrow as I have been focusing on. When the tie between domestic politics and military decisions become this apparent it truly gets my goat.

Good comments, thank you.

Mike

 

[namvet]

I don't think the 40K McChrystal ask for will be enough. they have to defend cities/villages and control the plains and mountain regions. 80K may not be enough. now Osama is considering some called "McChrystal Light." a new beer ???

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/28/obama-reportedly-eyeing-mcchrystal-light-plan-afghan-war-small-troop-boost/"]story[/URL]

as for the the drones their killing by standers and the population is terrified of them. the Use of drones inflames Afghan anti-Americanism. in spite of this I always favored drones and UAV's to save American lives.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Midnight, I'm not sure what you mean by my formatting.

It's the bold and italics. Very hard on the eyes. Can you not see it?

Default type is this.

Your type is this.

I completely agree about "we" not knowing many of the particulars in the broader picture. I also support more drones, as they are a good asset. I also agree with and support what you term as future warfare, however, I feel we need to get to that point first.

IMO, drones, air power, surgical ground operations and relying on the locals alone will not get us to a comfortable place, where we could then properly manage with "future warfare".

We can't just open a door and have the future of warfare. There will be a transition, and hopefully that's what we're seeing.

Hopefully.

 

[Mike458877]

Misnight, sorry when you said format, I thought you meant page layout. I do the bold for my own poor eyes to see better! no problem, easy fix.


namvet,

I am not going to get into this debate over who has been in the service and who has not. This is the Internet, which makes it a no win debate.

However, I will share this. As a conservative at heart, I agree with a fair amount of your general opinions. But, when it comes to life, the taking of life, going to war, being at war and most of all, taking up arms against our own in any form, well you simply didn't get much personally out of your time in the service.

Oh don't take me wrong, I know many people personally who feel as you do. they comment that Obama should be taken out or they are of the fanatical militia mind set, which feels at some point we the citizens need to turn on our own. I know those sentiments are real and I know those groups are out there, I use to shoot with many of them, before they went south in their thinking.

It's wrong my friend, dead wrong! If you understand what separates us from many other nations and what we were built on, then you would understand why it is wrong and you would in no way place a positive spin on such thinking.

Obama was elected by the people, for the people. I do not recognize him as my president, but, he is my nations president. I want to see him removed from office as soon as possible. I honestly feel this way, but, only through the legal means we have in place and/or through the voice of the people.

Further, as a American be it formally or informally I serve this nation, I personally vow to protect this nation, which means turning my force on my own brother and sisters is simply not an option or a rational thought.

There is nothing wrong with a proactive political revolution, but, that is vastly different from a blood and guts revolution which would leave this nation as nothing but a mere shadow of it's former self.

We are a nation built from the world as a whole. Nearly every other culture and ethnic background, along with religions and skin colors built this nation. That in it's self is our strength. Those who wish to divide us, be it under the flag of racism black against white, white against black, latino and so on or those who wish to divide us under the flag of patriotism will only serve to weaken us.

We are strong as one. We are strong by solving differences through health debate and the will of the people. Force will not change the problems in Washington, but, the voice of the people can.

So I have to disagree with your fanatical views and ask that you at least consider other ways to achieve what you feel is best for our nation.

Mike

 

[sealybobo]

Sometimes you can only Guess at these things.

I believe the reason Obama hasn't made a decision on Afghanistan is that he doesn't want to upset his liberal base.

He wants Obamacare to pass, the election in Virginia and New Jersey to take place and he's afraid that if he sends troops to Afghanistan his base will be disillusioned and wont turn out to vote.

OK, now fast forward today. Trump is sending in more troops. Wack a mole? And do we defend it forever? Because as soon as we leave the guys we don't like come back.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Sometimes you can only Guess at these things.

I believe the reason Obama hasn't made a decision on Afghanistan is that he doesn't want to upset his liberal base.

He wants Obamacare to pass, the election in Virginia and New Jersey to take place and he's afraid that if he sends troops to Afghanistan his base will be disillusioned and wont turn out to vote.

OK, now fast forward today. Trump is sending in more troops. Wack a mole? And do we defend it forever? Because as soon as we leave the guys we don't like come back.

Wow that's quite a fast forward... were you fully satisfied with Obama's policies since October 2009?

Seems like a good place to re-start..

 

[sealybobo]

Sometimes you can only Guess at these things.

I believe the reason Obama hasn't made a decision on Afghanistan is that he doesn't want to upset his liberal base.

He wants Obamacare to pass, the election in Virginia and New Jersey to take place and he's afraid that if he sends troops to Afghanistan his base will be disillusioned and wont turn out to vote.

OK, now fast forward today. Trump is sending in more troops. Wack a mole? And do we defend it forever? Because as soon as we leave the guys we don't like come back.

Wow that's quite a fast forward... were you fully satisfied with Obama's policies since October 2009?

Seems like a good place to re-start..

I'm assuming he was doing the right thing yes.

Now let's see if Trump has better results. We've seen more soldiers dying in Afghanistan lately. For what? If what Trump does works fine but so far I think we're seeing easier said than done.

Do you trust Trump and mad dog Maddox?

 

[Lumpy 1]

Sometimes you can only Guess at these things.

I believe the reason Obama hasn't made a decision on Afghanistan is that he doesn't want to upset his liberal base.

He wants Obamacare to pass, the election in Virginia and New Jersey to take place and he's afraid that if he sends troops to Afghanistan his base will be disillusioned and wont turn out to vote.

OK, now fast forward today. Trump is sending in more troops. Wack a mole? And do we defend it forever? Because as soon as we leave the guys we don't like come back.

Wow that's quite a fast forward... were you fully satisfied with Obama's policies since October 2009?

Seems like a good place to re-start..

I'm assuming he was doing the right thing yes.

Now let's see if Trump has better results. We've seen more soldiers dying in Afghanistan lately. For what? If what Trump does works fine but so far I think we're seeing easier said than done.

Do you trust Trump and mad dog Maddox?

You assume too to much, here's probably a source you would trust...

2,500 Soldiers Have Died in Afghanistan and Iraq Under Obama

I believe both Trump and Maddox should be given a chance to prove themselves, at least a year, alas far to late for many.