Obama Too Pro Israel-Should Enforce US/UN 1948 Partion Plan

[docmauser1]

Why do you think Israel dragged Arafat back to Palestine from exile?

Ahh, another palistanian popular delusion. Why do they always have to be dumb? But I digress. As we know, Arafat was "dragged" from his tunisian oblivion by Bush senior, who used him to please arabs in his bid to establish an "anti-Saddam" coalition. Since then every american presidential asshole used jews and Israel, harping "peace process" and "involvement" every time a diversion was needed, or gains made at the jewish expence, of course.

Arafat was brought back so that Israel could outsource the occupation to a Palestinian face.

• Arab world is, indeed, delusional. It isn't much of a surprise, though, since it's the biggest lunatic asylum on earth, run by the inmates.

• Haven't we established earlier that there's no occupation?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Ahh, another palistanian popular delusion. Why do they always have to be dumb? But I digress. As we know, Arafat was "dragged" from his tunisian oblivion by Bush senior, who used him to please arabs in his bid to establish an "anti-Saddam" coalition. Since then every american presidential asshole used jews and Israel, harping "peace process" and "involvement" every time a diversion was needed, or gains made at the jewish expence, of course.

Arafat was brought back so that Israel could outsource the occupation to a Palestinian face.

• Arab world is, indeed, delusional. It isn't much of a surprise, though, since it's the biggest lunatic asylum on earth, run by the inmates.

• Haven't we established earlier that there's no occupation?

No.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Funny outrage, indeed, in view that 1948 lines are, in fact, 1967 lines, excepting Syria.

We're obviously referring to the lines of the 1948 UN Partition plan.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Funny outrage, indeed, in view that 1948 lines are, in fact, 1967 lines, excepting Syria.

We're obviously referring to the lines of the 1948 UN Partition plan.

Actually, the 1967 borders refer to the 1949 armistice lines or green line. They were specifically not to be national or political borders. They merely designated areas of occupation.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

The difference between Hamas and Israel is that Hamas is defending Palestine from Israel's illegal occupation.

Other than that - Good post.

Thanks, PF!

As for Hamas, I appreciate the sentiment, but disagree. Maybe Hamas THINKS it's defending Palestine, but realistically speaking all they're doing is causing more bloodshed and hate, and their violent methods are abominable - and it's all for nothing, because they will never defeat Israel or take over all Historic Palestine. The IRA and the Basque separatists (ETA) used violence for years, and it was all a big waste of time that didn't accomplish anything. The ANC used terror for decades before switching to peaceful resistance, and only then did anything get done. Resisting a brutal occupation by force, however understandable it might be, is retarded and counterproductive, and is only gonna get more Palestinians killed.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Funny outrage, indeed, in view that 1948 lines are, in fact, 1967 lines, excepting Syria.

We're obviously referring to the lines of the 1948 UN Partition plan.

Actually, the 1967 borders refer to the 1949 armistice lines or green line. They were specifically not to be national or political borders. They merely designated areas of occupation.

Yes, look, all I was saying with my original statement is that THESE line:

are much less likely to be used, compared to THESE lines:

That's what the original poster was referring to, no? That the former lines should be used as the basis for negotiation? All I said was that former is not going to happen, especially considering that Israel claims even the latter to be unacceptable. The issue of the former lines is basically irrelevant, because it's not going to happen. =\ Thought I was just stating the obvious.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The difference between Hamas and Israel is that Hamas is defending Palestine from Israel's illegal occupation.

Other than that - Good post.

Thanks, PF!

As for Hamas, I appreciate the sentiment, but disagree. Maybe Hamas THINKS it's defending Palestine, but realistically speaking all they're doing is causing more bloodshed and hate, and their violent methods are abominable - and it's all for nothing, because they will never defeat Israel or take over all Historic Palestine. The IRA and the Basque separatists (ETA) used violence for years, and it was all a big waste of time that didn't accomplish anything. The ANC used terror for decades before switching to peaceful resistance, and only then did anything get done. Resisting a brutal occupation by force, however understandable it might be, is retarded and counterproductive, and is only gonna get more Palestinians killed.

Again, good post. The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing years ago although it is still standard fare for the propagandists. Hamas has also stopped rocket attacks and has good success in getting other factions to do the same. This is a tough sell because Israel continues to attack Palestinians on a daily basis and kills one every week or two.

Israel has killed 15 unarmed protesters in the last week during the Nakba protests. The idea of massive unarmed civilian protests is taking hold and it seems to have the approval of all the Palestinian factions including Hamas.

 

[docmauser1]

Funny outrage, indeed, in view that 1948 lines are, in fact, 1967 lines, excepting Syria.[/size][/font]

We're obviously referring to the lines of the 1948 UN Partition plan.

Obviously not, of course.

 

[docmauser1]

Arafat was brought back so that Israel could outsource the occupation to a Palestinian face.

• Arab world is, indeed, delusional. It isn't much of a surprise, though, since it's the biggest lunatic asylum on earth, run by the inmates.

• Haven't we established earlier that there's no occupation?

No.

How so?

Israel never won any Palestinian land.

No occupation.

 

[docmauser1]

Actually, the 1967 borders refer to the 1949 armistice lines or green line. They were specifically not to be national or political borders. They merely designated areas of occupation.

Ah, I see, Jordanian and Egyptian occupations, respectively.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Funny outrage, indeed, in view that 1948 lines are, in fact, 1967 lines, excepting Syria.[/size][/font]

We're obviously referring to the lines of the 1948 UN Partition plan.

Obviously not, of course.

... That's what the first post on this thread is about.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Even though it was unfair to Palestinians that should be the starting point.

BBC NEWS | In Depth | Israel and the Palestinians | key documents | UN Partition Plan

According to your map Jerusalem would be in a Arab country. That will never happen. That would be a deal breaker, and Obamush is to stupid to realize that.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Sort of irrelevant. The 1948 lines are obviously not going to happen. And now we learn from Netanyahu that the 1967 cannot even be used as a BASIS for negotiations. =O

I pretty much think it's over for the Palestinians really. After Netanyahu's speech next to Obama the other day, he basically killed the two-state solution and the one-state solution. So there is no solution, the only solution is for Israel to be a Jewish State by taking over the entire West Bank and makign life so miserable for Palestinians that they'll just have to leave. If they get rowdy, Israel will bomb them or send in battalions to beat them, maim them, and ultimately murder them if necessary.

Because that's the only way that Israel will get what it wants: All of Historic Palestine, with no Palestinians in it.

That's what the Israeli Right currently in power wants. That's what the extreme right in the United States seems to fully support. These people fully support the idea that Israel has a right to all of historic Palestine, and they have a right for it to be Jewish. Therefore, if Jews do not form a supermajority in all of historic Palestine now, then the only thing to do is kill off enough Palestinians.

But wait - doesn't this sound familiar? Doesn't this sound familiar to another political organization that wants all of Historical Palestine for itself with it's own numbers in the majority? Oh yeah! They're called Hamas! Somehow, as though by art of magic, Israel is good and Hamas is bad, despite that they want the exact same things!

So let's re-cap: For any one group to achieve it's objective, it has to eliminate the other. You see, you see what happens when you carry ideas to their logical conclusion? The logical conclusion is called Genocide. I just wish we were open about this.

But now the most important question - What is the difference between the Israeli Right and Hamas? Their supposed objectives are the same. So what is the difference? The difference is that one side has pop-bottle rockets and a rag tag militia (so it cannot achieve it's objective) while the other has nuclear warheads and one of the most powerful armies in the world (so it can achieve it's objective - the objective being genocide)!

Therefore, the Palestinians lose! Can somebody tell me whether I understood this properly? Do I understand this, you might say, in the correct manner? - Since both sides are controlled by their respective extremist ultra-nationalist elements, then the only way to solve this is for the stronger side to annihilate the weak side. Thankfully for Jews, the strong side is Israel! So game over.

I can now go back to lighter pursuits, like gardening and light reading. The "problem" has been solved. Palestine will be destroyed because it is weaker. And that's the end of it, it cannot be solved any other way.

C'mon, eternal supporters of the state of Israel, heap your praises on me for I have now learned the "correct" way to think about this conflict.

"The strong do as they can, the weak suffer as they must." - Thucydides, 5th Century BC

We shouldn't let Israel dictate to us what the borders will be, they would be nothing without us. Israel might be stronger now but the world changes.

Who the **** are you? "We shouldn't let Israel dictate?" Who in the **** are you to dictate to Israel?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Even though it was unfair to Palestinians that should be the starting point.

BBC NEWS | In Depth | Israel and the Palestinians | key documents | UN Partition Plan

So the US should give back the South West to Mexico? All Counties that lost land in wars should get it back? Is that your position?

The Confedercy should exist today.

 

[docmauser1]

We're obviously referring to the lines of the 1948 UN Partition plan.

Obviously not, of course.

... That's what the first post on this thread is about.

Ah, that post was drivel, indeed.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Obviously not, of course.

... That's what the first post on this thread is about.

Ah, that post was drivel, indeed.

ohhh good one! lol

 

[Truthseeker420]

Even though it was unfair to Palestinians that should be the starting point.

BBC NEWS | In Depth | Israel and the Palestinians | key documents | UN Partition Plan

So the US should give back the South West to Mexico? All Counties that lost land in wars should get it back? Is that your position?

The Confedercy should exist today.

Why is the south still fighting?

 

[Truthseeker420]

Sort of irrelevant. The 1948 lines are obviously not going to happen. And now we learn from Netanyahu that the 1967 cannot even be used as a BASIS for negotiations. =O

I pretty much think it's over for the Palestinians really. After Netanyahu's speech next to Obama the other day, he basically killed the two-state solution and the one-state solution. So there is no solution, the only solution is for Israel to be a Jewish State by taking over the entire West Bank and makign life so miserable for Palestinians that they'll just have to leave. If they get rowdy, Israel will bomb them or send in battalions to beat them, maim them, and ultimately murder them if necessary.

Because that's the only way that Israel will get what it wants: All of Historic Palestine, with no Palestinians in it.

That's what the Israeli Right currently in power wants. That's what the extreme right in the United States seems to fully support. These people fully support the idea that Israel has a right to all of historic Palestine, and they have a right for it to be Jewish. Therefore, if Jews do not form a supermajority in all of historic Palestine now, then the only thing to do is kill off enough Palestinians.

But wait - doesn't this sound familiar? Doesn't this sound familiar to another political organization that wants all of Historical Palestine for itself with it's own numbers in the majority? Oh yeah! They're called Hamas! Somehow, as though by art of magic, Israel is good and Hamas is bad, despite that they want the exact same things!

So let's re-cap: For any one group to achieve it's objective, it has to eliminate the other. You see, you see what happens when you carry ideas to their logical conclusion? The logical conclusion is called Genocide. I just wish we were open about this.

But now the most important question - What is the difference between the Israeli Right and Hamas? Their supposed objectives are the same. So what is the difference? The difference is that one side has pop-bottle rockets and a rag tag militia (so it cannot achieve it's objective) while the other has nuclear warheads and one of the most powerful armies in the world (so it can achieve it's objective - the objective being genocide)!

Therefore, the Palestinians lose! Can somebody tell me whether I understood this properly? Do I understand this, you might say, in the correct manner? - Since both sides are controlled by their respective extremist ultra-nationalist elements, then the only way to solve this is for the stronger side to annihilate the weak side. Thankfully for Jews, the strong side is Israel! So game over.

I can now go back to lighter pursuits, like gardening and light reading. The "problem" has been solved. Palestine will be destroyed because it is weaker. And that's the end of it, it cannot be solved any other way.

C'mon, eternal supporters of the state of Israel, heap your praises on me for I have now learned the "correct" way to think about this conflict.

"The strong do as they can, the weak suffer as they must." - Thucydides, 5th Century BC

We shouldn't let Israel dictate to us what the borders will be, they would be nothing without us. Israel might be stronger now but the world changes.

Who the **** are you? "We shouldn't let Israel dictate?" Who in the **** are you to dictate to Israel?

For one I'm an American and I have the right to say were my tax dollar should and shouldn't go and it shouldn't go tpo support the Holocaust of the Palestinian people.

 

[docmauser1]

For one I'm an American and I have the right to say were my tax dollar should and shouldn't go and it shouldn't go tpo support the Holocaust of the Palestinian people.

So, space cadets want to know where the chinese tax dollars go.

 

[Truthseeker420]

For one I'm an American and I have the right to say were my tax dollar should and shouldn't go and it shouldn't go tpo support the Holocaust of the Palestinian people.

So, space cadets want to know where the chinese tax dollars go.

okay