Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill

[Angel Heart]

[youtube]U-dQfb8WQvo[/youtube]

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

And your point is?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

And your point is?

That Obama's plan, like those in europe and canada, will end up denying this type of surgery.

For EXAMPLE

 

[Modbert]

Cutting waste, and having people perhaps take a much less expensive pill than a surgery that won't do a thing?

Oh no!! Not the Health companies bottom lines!!!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

[youtube]U-dQfb8WQvo[/youtube]

However, President Obama, the surgery has given the lady an additional 5 years at the end of her very long life.

That was a wacky thing for him to say at the end...i need to find a clip with the rest of what he was saying to make sure that wasn't what he meant....if it was what he meant than that was a total DB comment for the president to make.

 

[Modbert]

And your point is?

That Obama's plan, like those in europe and canada, will end up denying this type of surgery.

For EXAMPLE

Wrong

However, say your point was true, is it any different now with the insurance companies?

Insurance company denies open heart surgery patient necessary medication because of religion - iReport.com

The patient is 65 year old resident from South Gate (a low income area of east Los Angeles County). She is retired, a U.S. Citizen, and on a fixed income. The cost of the medicine is $380.00 per dose. At (7) doses it draws close to $2660.00. An amount difficultly paid for by a senior citizen on a monthly fixed income of $744.00.

She'll get her seven doses, but be in crippling debt that if she had a home that she'd have to probably sell it and move into a nursing home if no family was available.

The insurance company, Scan Health plan, initially approved (4) doses of the (7) doses ordered by the cardiothoracic surgeon and cardiologist team, but later recanted and denied all doses stating, “It’s not a common drug” and “is only being requested because she’s a Jehovah’s Witness”.

The Physician's office will attempt one more time and formally appeal to the insurance to pay for this NECESSARY medication so she can have this life-saving operation.

CA | Guaranteed Healthcare

My beautiful 17-year-old daughter, Nataline, died last December after being denied twice by our family's insurance company, CIGNA, for a liver transplant that was recommended by a panel of doctors at UCLA Medical Center," recalls Hilda Sarkisyan.

"Nataline battled leukemia since she was 13 and had been in remission for a long time, before the latest flair-up. She received a successful bone marrow transplant from her older brother, Bedig, but the chemotherapy damaged her liver. Her doctors said that if she received a liver transplant, she had a decent chance of pulling through. CIGNA said no, that the operation would be considered experimental."

Do realize, trying to make their systems seem worse doesn't make ours any better. Especially when you ignore what is happening now here.

Scroll down that last link's list of dead because of the Insurance Companies in THIS country.

 

[problemat1que]

Just go on google and find a full transcript of this.
transcript jane sturm 105
should do the trick.

Obama actually says:
"I don't want bureaucracies making those decisions,... they are already being made... If not under Medicare & Medicaid, they're being made by private insurers."
About the pacemaker:
"that's a good example of where-if we've got experts looking at this, ... that the pacemaker may ultimately save money, then we potentially COULD HAVE DONE THAT FASTER."

DON'T BE FOOLED PEOPLE

Instead there this vid cuts to a point where he talks about how we all could save money on OTHER MEDICATION THAT DOESN'T HELP.

I'm sorry people, this is so obvious, don't get tricked.
AGAINST HEALTHCARE REFORM ARE ONLY THE BIG INSURANCE CORPORATIONS AND THEIR HELPERS, because they want you continue to give them money for nothing. [Pre-existing conditions, anyone?]

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Just go on google and find a full transcript of this.
transcript jane sturm 105
should do the trick.

Obama actually says:
"I don't want bureaucracies making those decisions,... they are already being made... If not under Medicare & Medicaid, they're being made by private insurers."
About the pacemaker:
"that's a good example of where-if we've got experts looking at this, ... that the pacemaker may ultimately save money, then we potentially COULD HAVE DONE THAT FASTER."

DON'T BE FOOLED PEOPLE

Instead there this vid cuts to a point where he talks about how we all could save money on OTHER MEDICATION THAT DOESN'T HELP.

I'm sorry people, this is so obvious, don't get tricked.
AGAINST HEALTHCARE REFORM ARE ONLY THE BIG INSURANCE CORPORATIONS AND THEIR HELPERS, because they want you continue to give them money for nothing. [Pre-existing conditions, anyone?]

like I said

However, President Obama, the surgery has given the lady an additional 5 years at the end of her very long life.

That was a wacky thing for him to say at the end...i need to find a clip with the rest of what he was saying to make sure that wasn't what he meant....if it was what he meant than that was a total DB comment for the president to make.

Is there a youtube link or anything?

 

[PixieStix]

[youtube]U-dQfb8WQvo[/youtube]

Thank you Doctor obama



I hate that bastard

 

[Modbert]

Fucking Republican idiots. It's obvious this is taken out of context but Republicans want every piece of evidence they can to show how evil reforming Health care would be. Noticed the lot of you have ignored my Health Care thread that posts facts instead of sound bytes.

TRANSCRIPT: 'Questions for the President: Prescription for America' - ABC News

SAWYER: And we have with us a couple of people who really represent the opposite ends on this spectrum too. I want to talk, if I can, to Jane Sturm. Your mother, Hazel...

JANE STURM: Caregiver for 105-year-old mother: Yes.

SAWYER: Hazel Homer (ph), 100 years old and she wanted...

STURM: She's 105 now. Over 105. But at 100 the doctor had said to her, I can't do anything more unless you have a pacemaker. I said, go for it. She said, go for it. But the arrhythmia specialist said, no, it's too old. Her doctor said, I'm going to make an appointment, because a picture is worth a thousand words. And when the other arrhythmia specialist saw her, saw her joy of life and so on, he said, I'm going for it. So that was over five years ago. My question to you is, outside the medical criteria for prolonging life for somebody elderly, is there any consideration that can be given for a certain spirit, a certain joy of living, quality of life? Or is it just a medical cutoff at a certain age?

OBAMA: Well, first of all, I want to meet your mom.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: And I want to find out what's she's eating.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: But, look, the first thing for all of us to understand is that we actually have some -- some choices to make about how we want to deal with our own end-of-life care. And that's one of the things I think that we can all promote, and this is not a big government program. This is something that each of us individually can do, is to draft and sign a living will so that we're
very clear with our doctors about how we want to approach the end of life.
I don't think that we can make judgments based on peoples' spirit. That would be a pretty subjective decision to be making. I think we have to have rules that say that we are going to provide good, quality care for all people.

GIBSON: But the money may not have been there for her pacemaker or for your grandmother's hip replacement.

OBAMA: Well, and -- and that's absolutely true. And end-of-life care is one of the most difficult sets of decisions that we're going to have to make.
I don't want bureaucracies making those decisions, but understand that those decisions are already being made in one way or another. If they're not being made under Medicare and Medicaid, they're being made by private insurers. We don't always make those decisions explicitly. We often make those decisions by just letting people run out of money or making the deductibles so high or the out-of-pocket expenses so onerous that they just can't afford the care.

And all we're suggesting -- and we're not going to solve every difficult problem in terms of end-of-life care. A lot of that is going to have to be, we as a culture and as a society starting to make better decisions within our own families and for ourselves. But what we can do is make sure that at least some of the waste that exists in the system that's not making anybody's mom better, that is loading up on additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care, that at least we can let doctors know and your mom know that, you know what? Maybe this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller.

Now, the spin bots as I like to call some of you end the conversation there as if that's the end. However, Obama continues to go on to say:

And those kinds of decisions between doctors and patients, and making sure that our incentives are not preventing those good decision, and that -- that doctors and hospitals all are aligned for patient care, that's something we can achieve. We're not going to solve every single one of these very difficult decisions at end of life, and ultimately that's going to be between physicians and patients. But we can make real progress on this front if we work a little bit harder.

SAWYER: Is that a conversation you could have had with your mom?

STURM: What I wanted to say was, that the arrhythmia specialist who put the pacemaker in said that it cost Medicare $30,000 at the time. She had been in the hospital two or three times a month before that, so let's say 20, 30 times being in the hospital, maybe going to rehab, the cost was so much more. And that's what would have happened had she not had the pacemaker.

OBAMA: Well, and that's a good example of where -- if we've got experts who are looking at this, and they are advising doctors across the board that the pacemaker may ultimately save money, then we potentially could have done that faster. I mean, this can cut both ways. The point is, we want to use science, we want doctors and -- and medical experts to be making decisions that all too often right now are driven by skewed policies, by out-dated means of reimbursement, or by insurance companies. And everybody's families, I think, have had to experience this in one way or another. That's -- that's the reason we need reform right now.

GIBSON: We're going to take one more commercial break, Mr. President. When we come back, we're going to get into the issue of whether or not in a reform measure there should government insurance for people, because a lot of people are very uncomfortable with that idea. "Prescription for America" continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Now, Angel, next time you post a video, make sure you have the full context first.

 

[problemat1que]

Is there a youtube link or anything?

It was hard to find for all the conservative blogs commenting on the edited video (rather than the unedited original) but here it is:

YouTube - Prescription for America Part 3 ABC News

youtube dot com slash watch?v=6D8PXAt8HEY

from 3:40 to the end.

 

[Angel Heart]

Just go on google and find a full transcript of this.
transcript jane sturm 105
should do the trick.

Obama actually says:
"I don't want bureaucracies making those decisions,... they are already being made... If not under Medicare & Medicaid, they're being made by private insurers."
About the pacemaker:
"that's a good example of where-if we've got experts looking at this, ... that the pacemaker may ultimately save money, then we potentially COULD HAVE DONE THAT FASTER."

DON'T BE FOOLED PEOPLE

Instead there this vid cuts to a point where he talks about how we all could save money on OTHER MEDICATION THAT DOESN'T HELP.

I'm sorry people, this is so obvious, don't get tricked.
AGAINST HEALTHCARE REFORM ARE ONLY THE BIG INSURANCE CORPORATIONS AND THEIR HELPERS, because they want you continue to give them money for nothing. [Pre-existing conditions, anyone?]

When it comes to saving someones life, saving money shouldn't be the worry. Getting PROPER medical care should. The proper medical care was for her to get a pacemaker. That was for her and her doctor to decide.

BTW I have private health insurance and have for years... I have yet to have an issue with dealing with pre-existing conditions or have someone near to me deal with that issue.

If we really want to help with health care we need major tort reform. The amount of lawyers involved in the medical field make my mind spin.

I'm guessing your a backer of big law firms and using it to bully others to do what you want them to.

 

[problemat1que]

When it comes to saving someones life, saving money shouldn't be the worry. Getting PROPER medical care should. The proper medical care was for her to get a pacemaker. That was for her and her doctor to decide.

Unfortunately, medical devices and drugs companies have a knack for "persuading" doctors to prescribe the "right" medication. For the medical companies.

No, we can't afford monthly MRI scans for everyone, even if it would allow us to detect more cancers earlier.

Besides, you are missing the point. In the original, uncut, video, you can see Obama actually supporting the pacemaker as a wise decision to help the patient and lower cost.

BTW I have private health insurance and have for years... I have yet to have an issue with dealing with pre-existing conditions or have someone near to me deal with that issue.

I have, and I have also seen minor things, like the insurance only allowing three 30 pill packs instead of the 90 pill pack. Because then the patient had to pay more.

If we really want to help with health care we need major tort reform. The amount of lawyers involved in the medical field make my mind spin.

tort = ? I don't see how lawyers are related here.

I'm guessing your a backer of big law firms and using it to bully others to do what you want them to.

You guess wrong, I am affiliated neither with neither medical companies, insurance companies, nor law firms.

I am just someone who has a beef with people editing videos beyond all recognition and selling them as truth.

To paraphrase the real thing:
"Woman: With medication, my granny lived another 5 years!
Obama: That's great, and we saved money in the process! But don't get your hopes up now that we'll pay for her cosmetic surgery."

To paraphrase the video edited by conservatives:
"Woman: With medication, my granny lived another 5 years!
Obama: ...don't get our hopes up that we'll pay for her..."



Please go to youtube and find "Prescription for America Part 3 ABC News", watch from 3:40 to the end.

 

[Angel Heart]

When it comes to saving someones life, saving money shouldn't be the worry. Getting PROPER medical care should. The proper medical care was for her to get a pacemaker. That was for her and her doctor to decide.

Unfortunately, medical devices and drugs companies have a knack for "persuading" doctors to prescribe the "right" medication. For the medical companies.

No, we can't afford monthly MRI scans for everyone, even if it would allow us to detect more cancers earlier.

Besides, you are missing the point. In the original, uncut, video, you can see Obama actually supporting the pacemaker as a wise decision to help the patient and lower cost.

BTW I have private health insurance and have for years... I have yet to have an issue with dealing with pre-existing conditions or have someone near to me deal with that issue.

I have, and I have also seen minor things, like the insurance only allowing three 30 pill packs instead of the 90 pill pack. Because then the patient had to pay more.

If we really want to help with health care we need major tort reform. The amount of lawyers involved in the medical field make my mind spin.

tort = ? I don't see how lawyers are related here.

I'm guessing your a backer of big law firms and using it to bully others to do what you want them to.

You guess wrong, I am affiliated neither with neither medical companies, insurance companies, nor law firms.

I am just someone who has a beef with people editing videos beyond all recognition and selling them as truth.

To paraphrase the real thing:
"Woman: With medication, my granny lived another 5 years!
Obama: That's great, and we saved money in the process! But don't get your hopes up now that we'll pay for her cosmetic surgery."

To paraphrase the video edited by conservatives:
"Woman: With medication, my granny lived another 5 years!
Obama: ...don't get our hopes up that we'll pay for her..."



Please go to youtube and find "Prescription for America Part 3 ABC News", watch from 3:40 to the end.

Tort reform and medical care reform go hand and hand. Too many Dr's have been chase out of business due to the raising cost of their malpractice.

Yeah it does go back to insurance company's but not just the health care ones. The lawsuit protection ones as well...

Medical Malpractice Premiums Not Justified Based on Claims

But if you want to sell us all down the socialist path... Nothing I'm going to say will stop your views.

They will ration care. There's no other way for them to drive prices down. The elderly and the weak will pay the price.

 

[Political Junky]

[youtube]U-dQfb8WQvo[/youtube]

He makes sense. People are taking pills that prevent them from having a heart transplant.

 

[problemat1que]

Tort reform and medical care reform go hand and hand. Too many Dr's have been chase out of business due to the raising cost of their malpractice.

So since Angel Heart still hasn't explained what exactly is meant by tort reform, I did some research.

So tort, or malpractice, lawsuits make up 0.46% of US healthcare cost.
google
ezra klein malpractice
for the numbers.

That means that while tort reform would be nice, it won't solve anyone's healthcare cost problems. But US healthcare costs twice as much as other industrialized countries' and delivers less. That leaves over 50% of the costs, minus 0.46%, i.e. still 50%, that are wasted on... what other than bolstering the coffers of pharma and insurance companies?

During my research I also found that tort reform is a conservative talking point habitually brought up to throw a spanner into the works and distract from the real issues.

Let me just say that it will be very difficult to shape into legislation, and change nothing, because the real reason is the jury system and I've seen no plan to abolish that.

And that is exactly the reason why conservatives try to tie tort reform to healthcare reform - to slow everything down.

I don't want to talk about tort reform, it won't solve the healthcare crisis.

But if you want to sell us all down the socialist path... Nothing I'm going to say will stop your views.

Other countries have smaller healthcare costs, with better results, with private insurance companies. But they regulate them more, that is what is planned for the US, and it is what counts. Please let's be more productive than name-calling here.

They will ration care. There's no other way for them to drive prices down. The elderly and the weak will pay the price.

What Angel Heart fails to acknowledge is that US healthcare, as expensive and crappy as it is, is already rationed - every time an insurance denies payment for a necessary treatment due to made-up pre-existing conditions (good luck suing them while you're dying), every time they kick a person out because they contracted a cronic illness, every time they refuse to insure a hard-working waitress because she only makes $2 per hour plus measly tips, they ration healthcare.

The elderly and the weak are paying the price right now. In 2002, 18000 deaths in the US were attributed to lack of insurance. I'm sure you can google many more casualties of health insurers.
Well, why not google "health insurance casualty of the day"

Obama's plans would put the costs on those who are strong - high earners and insurance companies that have been making record profits. Quite unlike what Angel Heart said.

No-one is proposing socialized healthcare. Everyone can keep their insurance if they like it. If insurance companies are so much more efficient at providing healthcare than the government, let them prove it, let the market decide!

What's missing in this discussion is the big picture. At the end of the day, we the people don't want to be rich as much as we want to be healthy. We don't want to fall into a trap of insurmountable debt because we were unlucky enough to contract some illness. And we don't want to be robbed or injured in the street by someone who has, and lost all hope. Millions of Americans have no hope, and if we want to be safe in the streets, we should give hope back to them.

 

[frontal4444]

What I do not understand is that we all know that the whole system is not working effectively. I have worked hard since I was 11 years old, and I am now near the social security retirement age. I have served overseas in the armed forces. I have paid my dues, I have worked 31 years in law enforcement. I have paid dues hard with many injuries trying to take care of the citizens I had to protect. I have done everything by the book, and the right way. Now there is a chance that I will lose some of the medical benefits an older person should have because it saves money. Isn't my life and what I have done for society worth anything. Or is it going to be like everything else this country produces, and I will be a 'throw away society', hulk of trash? I hear the anger on both side of the fence, and yet no one is willing to give me any piece of mind. I have paid into the SS system for years, and if my entitlements are not there, then I want the money I paid back. Plus these illigal aliens that come here automatically get some kind of medical help free most of the time-what is wrong with that picture is-if your are going to deny older people coverage, yet they have paid into the system and are AMERICANS [legal] and you deny them because they are old....come on...that is just not right. Now talk about waste, take a look at that one. Also again the very rich will just stand on the backs of the legal poor in this country, as they have done since the tea party. Right now I am mad about obama's health plan more so then the stupid health insurance companies. And the crummy republican party has been so corrupt in the pass 8 years that we cant trust them to offer any protection from the insurance companies or bad polictics of the democrates. The system has to be fixed, but denying any American that is legal medical help is just absurd. If we can right now find the funds and time to try to help the people who are illegal that come here medial help the last thing that should be on obama's mind or any of those congress people's minds and any reduction or denial of medical services to the young or the old. That is discrimination, and it verges of the edge of genocide of the old, or the very sick, or the people who have MS or one of those horrible illments, that will never be able to come back to be a working benefit to society. But we owe it to these folks, our brothers and sisters to help them as much as we can. As you may well tell with my bad grammer, spelling and poor writing abilities, that I am scared and mad. I just don't trust the government, or this government, the Obama admin, or Bush's bunch. There has got to be a better way to figure this out. I have always said protect the young, and take of the old, and care for the ones that have fallen. enough said

 

[WillowTree]

What I do not understand is that we all know that the whole system is not working effectively. I have worked hard since I was 11 years old, and I am now near the social security retirement age. I have served overseas in the armed forces. I have paid my dues, I have worked 31 years in law enforcement. I have paid dues hard with many injuries trying to take care of the citizens I had to protect. I have done everything by the book, and the right way. Now there is a chance that I will lose some of the medical benefits an older person should have because it saves money. Isn't my life and what I have done for society worth anything.not if you look at the black liberation theology that obama and his minions operate under,, it's all about wealth redistribution and very little about your quality of life, they want what you have earned cause you somehow owe it to them. Or is it going to be like everything else this country produces, and I will be a 'throw away society', hulk of trash? I hear the anger on both side of the fence, and yet no one is willing to give me any piece of mind. perhaps there is none to give right now, no one on the democrat side will answer to the contemplated 500 billion dollar cuts in medicare,, they simply won't I have paid into the SS system for years, and if my entitlements are not there, then I want my money I paid back. Plus these illigal aliens that come here automatically get some kind of medical help free most of the time-what is wrong with that picturejust try getting a democwat to explain that to you, ask them why the democwats voted down the heller amendment is-if your are going to deny older people coverage, yet they have paid into the system and are AMERICANS [legal] and you deny them because they are old....come on...that is just not right. Now talk about waste, take a look at that one. Also again the very rich will just on the backs of the legal poor in this country, as they have done since the tea party. Right now I am mad about obama's health plan more so then the stupid health insurance companies. And the crummy republican party has been so corrupt in the pass 8 years that we cant trust them to offer any protection from the insurance companies or bad polictics of the democrates. The system has to be fixed, but denying any American that is legal medical help is just absurd.I agree If we can right now find the funds and time to try to help the people who are illegal that come here medial help the last thing that should be on obama's mind or any of those congress people's minds and any reduction or denial of medical services to the young or the old. That is discrimination,discrimination is fine in the liberal world long as it benefits them and it verges of the edge of genocide of the old, or the very sick, or the people who have MS or one of those horrible illments, that will never be able to come back to be a working benefit to society. But we owe it to these folks, our brothers and sisters to help them as much as we can. As you may well tell with my bad grammer, spelling and poor writing abilities, that I am scared and mad. I just don't trust the government, or this government, the Obama admin, or Bush's bunch. There has got to be a better way to figure this out. I have always said protect the young, and take of the old, and care for the ones that have fallen. enough said

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This is the section of the bill relating to the seniors "end of life" counciling.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...-of-life-council-euthenasia-talk-origins.html