OBAMA To Be Subpoenaed!

[ChrisL]

WHy in the hell are our tax dollars going to buy javelin missiles for Ukraine anyways?

Because it is good for peoples 401k's

What? I'm being serious here. I want to know what is going on with our government officials and their families involved in the Ukraine. Something about this stinks. It seems like NOBODY wants to investigate. Instead, they will beat the hell out of Trump for a phone call and making an inquiry about having an investigation! So shady!

 

[ChrisL]

Just think about everything that is going on. Look at the big picture!

 

[JLW]

You really can’t make this up can you. While the Senate impeachment trial is going on Fox ignores it. Not only ignores it but spreads lies to its ignorant base. Wow..sad..really, really sad.

Honestly John?

I had NPR on all day today when I wasn't laid up by my disability.

That shit was THE MOST BORING ASS CRAP I have ever listened to.

. . . and boy, was it petty compared to all the other war crimes other presidents have committed since Carter.

Yet? If this is the hill the DNC wants to die on? Sure, let's do this thing.

BUT, I can tell you this much, if Trump goes down, Biden needs to go down as well.

SO.

With that in mind, I leave it up to you.

No double standards here. All or none buddy. Which will it be?

My response was to the OP or really, to Trey Gowdy’s comment about the possibility of subpoenaing Obama. It was outlandish. I don’t know if Fox covered Schiff’s, closing argument for the evening but it was very well done.

I will say this if Biden is as guilty as Trump throw the bastard out.

 

[ChrisL]

The democrats have something to hide. Most definitely. Or at least some of them. I want to know what it is. I find this all to be very concerning.

 

[MisterBeale]

WHy in the hell are our tax dollars going to buy javelin missiles for Ukraine anyways?

Because it is good for peoples 401k's

What? I'm being serious here. I want to know what is going on with our government officials and their families involved in the Ukraine. Something about this stinks. It seems like NOBODY wants to investigate. Instead, they will beat the hell out of Trump for a phone call and making an inquiry about having an investigation! So shady!

We all went over this, and over this last year. . . A LOT.

I'm really sort of tired of it by now.

Where were you back in September?

Here is stuff from my posts back then;

I just don't get it, we have them on film!!
"Yeah, he was corrupt and biased toward Russia, but the fact is? Biden is corrupt too.

Folks in this thread, and on this forum have this fallacious thinking that there are only good guys and bad guys.

News for you, there are only bad guys. Biden is corrupt, and Shokin is corrupt. Just because Biden might be telling the truth? Does not mean Shokin and Russia are lying.


It doesn't matter if Shokin was good for the USA or not, he was supposed to be working for Ukraine. They are not our vassal state, just b/c we funded the Neo-Nazis that created the coup.

Report: Former Ukrainian Prosecutor Viktor Shokin Swore Biden’s Pressure Led to His Firing
Report: Former Ukrainian Prosecutor Viktor Shokin Swore Biden's Pressure Led to His Firing
Shokin’s Statement

Before I start with this section, I have to say that it is hard who to believe: Biden or Shokin. There are red flags over Biden, but the fact is Shokin is corrupt. He even disgusted me and he would have a grudge over his firing.

Solomon got ahold of Shokin’s sworn statements about his firing. He reported:

Ukrainian prosecutors say they have tried to get this information to the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) since the summer of 2018, fearing it might be evidence of possible violations of U.S. ethics laws. First, they hired a former federal prosecutor to bring the information to the U.S. attorney in New York, who, they say, showed no interest. Then, the Ukrainians reached out to President Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani.

Ukraine’s new president, Volodymyr Zelensky, told Trump in July that he plans to launch his own wide-ranging investigation into what happened with the Bidens and Burisma.

“I’m knowledgeable about the situation,” Zelensky told Trump, asking the American president to forward any evidence he might know about. “The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case.”

As you can tell that backs up Zelensky’s statement. It looks like Ukraine really did want to get to the bottom of the Burisma investigation.

Here is the key point in the document:


Shokin Statement

Austrian court clears way for U.S. extradition of Ukrainian tycoon Firtash
Austrian court clears way for U.S. extradition of Ukrainian tycoon Firtash"

AND

We do not want a transcript of the call, we want the Whistleblower's

"but Ukrainian authorities have cleared Biden of any wrongdoing."


You mean the puppet regime of Washington, the neo-nazis that were put in power AFTER Biden called for the removal of a prosecutor in Ukraine in 2014! Those are the folks that cleared Biden? C'mon, wake the fuck up dude. Now you are siding with Nazis?

There were a total of 39 candidates for the election on the ballot. The 2014 annexation of Crimea by Russia and the occupation of parts of Donetsk Oblast and Luhansk Oblast prevented around 12% of eligible voters from participating in the election.
2019 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia



What America’s Coup in Ukraine Did
What America’s Coup in Ukraine Did

". . . America’s criminal ‘news’ media never even reported the coup, nor that in 2011 the Obama regime began planning for a coup in Ukraine. And that by 1 March 2013 they started organizing it inside the U.S. Embassy there. And that they hired members of Ukraine’s two racist-fascist, or nazi, political parties, Right Sector and Svoboda (which latter had been called the Social Nationalist Party of Ukraine until the CIA advised them to change it to Freedom Party, or “Svoboda” instead). And that in February 2014 they did it (and here’s the 4 February 2014 phone call instructing the U.S. Ambassador whom to place in charge of the new regime when the coup will be completed), under the cover of authentic anti-corruption demonstrations that the Embassy organized on the Maidan Square in Kiev, demonstrations that the criminal U.S. ‘news’ media misrepresented as ‘democracy demonstrations,’ though Ukraine already had democracy (but still lots of corruption, even more than today’s U.S. does, and the pontificating Obama said he was trying to end Ukraine’s corruption — which instead actually soared after his coup there).

The head of the ‘private CIA’ firm Stratfor said it was “the most blatant coup in history” but he couldn’t say that to Americans, because he knows that our press is just a mouthpiece for the regime (just like it was during the lead-up to George W. Bush’s equally unprovoked invasion of Iraq — for which America’s ‘news’ media suffered likewise no penalties).
When subsequently accused by neocons for his having said this, his response was “I told the business journal Kommersant that if the US were behind a coup in Kiev, it would have been the most blatant coup in history,” but he was lying to say this, because, as I pointed out when writing about that rejoinder of his, he had, in fact, made quite clear in his Kommersant interview, that it was, in his view “the most blatant coup in history,” no conditionals on that.

Everybody knows what Obama, and Clinton, and Sarkozy, did to Libya — in their zeal to eliminate yet another nation’s leader who was friendly toward Russia (Muammar Gaddafi), they turned one of the highest-living-standard nations in Africa into a failed state and huge source of refugees (as well as of weapons that the Clinton State Department transferred to the jihadists in Syria to bring down Bashar al-Assad, another ally of Russia) — but the ‘news’ media have continued to hide what Obama (assisted by America’s European allies, especially Poland and Netherlands, and also by America’s apartheid Middle Eastern ally, Israel) did to Ukraine.. . . "

This is a good primer too

RAY McGOVERN: Ukraine For Dummies
RAY McGOVERN: Ukraine For Dummies

 

[MisterBeale]

Politicians and their Families are Playing in the Corrupt Ukrainian Sandbox – Dr. Rich Swier

 

[White 6]

WHy in the hell are our tax dollars going to buy javelin missiles for Ukraine anyways?

Ukraine can be thought of as a proxy delaying war with Russia against US and NATO. Puting would rather continue to stir and divide Ukraine until it falls from within and willingly comes back under Russia as in the cold war days, but he may get tired of waiting. Russia and Ukraine have the two largest single nation armies over there, but if Russia went full force, a blocking maneuver using Javelins to take out the Russian tanks, is a better option than trusting the ability of Ukraines older tanks to stand toe to toe for an extended assault. Javelins in quantity couple with available Ukraine tanks could hold stand off a couple of Russian motorized rifle divisions, or at least that is the theory. Javelins much cheaper and more diplomatic than taking a chance on troops. Ukraine desires to be NATO aligned, but is not a member of NATO. At the same time, is second largest country over there and buts up against NATO allies we actually are pledged to support. Putin is just playing chess, and he's not bad at it.

 

[MisterBeale]

You really can’t make this up can you. While the Senate impeachment trial is going on Fox ignores it. Not only ignores it but spreads lies to its ignorant base. Wow..sad..really, really sad.

Honestly John?

I had NPR on all day today when I wasn't laid up by my disability.

That shit was THE MOST BORING ASS CRAP I have ever listened to.

. . . and boy, was it petty compared to all the other war crimes other presidents have committed since Carter.

Yet? If this is the hill the DNC wants to die on? Sure, let's do this thing.

BUT, I can tell you this much, if Trump goes down, Biden needs to go down as well.

SO.

With that in mind, I leave it up to you.

No double standards here. All or none buddy. Which will it be?

My response was to the OP or really, to Trey Gowdy’s comment about the possibility of subpoenaing Obama. It was outlandish. I don’t know if Fox covered Schiff’s, closing argument for the evening but it was very well done.

I will say this if Biden is as guilty as Trump throw the bastard out.

You know what is worse, IMO than Trump's or Biden's quid pro quo, and why I find this whole impeachment thing boorish?

None of it, and I mean, NONE OF IT, would have come about if Obama hadn't instigated a coup in Ukraine, and caused all the corruption and provoked Putin in the first place.

If anyone should have been impeached? It should have been Obama for interfering in the will of the Ukrainian people.

Why was any of that necessary?

 

[MisterBeale]

WHy in the hell are our tax dollars going to buy javelin missiles for Ukraine anyways?

Ukraine can be thought of as a proxy delaying war with Russia against US and NATO. Puting would rather continue to stir and divide Ukraine until it falls from within and willingly comes back under Russia as in the cold war days, but he may get tired of waiting. Russia and Ukraine have the two largest single nation armies over there, but if Russia went full force, a blocking maneuver using Javelins to take out the Russian tanks, is a better option than trusting the ability of Ukraines older tanks to stand toe to toe for an extended assault. Javelins in quantity couple with available Ukraine tanks could hold stand off a couple of Russian motorized rifle divisions, or at least that is the theory. Javelins much cheaper and more diplomatic than taking a chance on troops. Ukraine desires to be NATO aligned, but is not a member of NATO. At the same time, is second largest country over there and buts up against NATO allies we actually are pledged to support. Putin is just playing chess, and he's not bad at it.

What a load of bullshit.

 

[ChrisL]

You really can’t make this up can you. While the Senate impeachment trial is going on Fox ignores it. Not only ignores it but spreads lies to its ignorant base. Wow..sad..really, really sad.

Honestly John?

I had NPR on all day today when I wasn't laid up by my disability.

That shit was THE MOST BORING ASS CRAP I have ever listened to.

. . . and boy, was it petty compared to all the other war crimes other presidents have committed since Carter.

Yet? If this is the hill the DNC wants to die on? Sure, let's do this thing.

BUT, I can tell you this much, if Trump goes down, Biden needs to go down as well.

SO.

With that in mind, I leave it up to you.

No double standards here. All or none buddy. Which will it be?

My response was to the OP or really, to Trey Gowdy’s comment about the possibility of subpoenaing Obama. It was outlandish. I don’t know if Fox covered Schiff’s, closing argument for the evening but it was very well done.

I will say this if Biden is as guilty as Trump throw the bastard out.

You know what is worse, IMO than Trump's or Biden's quid pro quo, and why I find this whole impeachment thing boorish?

None of it, and I mean, NONE OF IT, would have come about if Obama hadn't instigated a coup in Ukraine, and caused all the corruption and provoked Putin in the first place.

If anyone should have been impeached? It should have been Obama for interfering in the will of the Ukrainian people.

Why was any of that necessary?

There is something really shady going on. I've been reading a few things about Ukraine and Russia, about the leaders of Ukraine and their people, a bunch of things. There is definitely something going on.

 

[ChrisL]

The democrats have something to hide - that is what this is all about.

 

[ChrisL]

Joe Biden does not want to discuss this at ALL.

Joe Biden & Ukraine: Former VP Warns Media against Shopping ‘Conclusively Debunked’ Corruption Allegations During Impeachment Trial | National Review

The former vice president and his son could be called by Republicans as witnesses in the upcoming trial. Last week, Senator Rand Paul (R., Ky.) said that the Bidens should be called if the upper chamber votes to hear witnesses.

“If the president is being accused of withholding foreign aid, and his argument is, ‘Well, we were studying corruption, and we wanted to know about corruption in Ukraine,’ and I think the Bidens are as corrupt as the day is long,” Paul argued. “No young man who is the son of a politician gets $50,000 a month who has no experience, working for a Ukrainian oligarch. You know, for goodness sakes — it smells to high heaven. It smells like corruption.”

 

[Crixus]

You really can’t make this up can you. While the Senate impeachment trial is going on Fox ignores it. Not only ignores it but spreads lies to its ignorant base. Wow..sad..really, really sad.

Telling lies to combat lies don't make one look smart, just makes them look like a liar.

 

[ChrisL]

You really can’t make this up can you. While the Senate impeachment trial is going on Fox ignores it. Not only ignores it but spreads lies to its ignorant base. Wow..sad..really, really sad.

Telling lies to combat lies don't make one look smart, just makes them look like a liar.

Scary stuff right there.

 

[Crixus]

Trey Gowdy laid out the reasoning tonight on Hannity .

On the video of joe biden bragging about his quid pro quo at the CFR, biden said fire the prosecutor or you're not getting the billion dollars.

The ukranians said "That money was authorized by the president...you can't do that".

Biden said "call him".

Vice president Biden implicated president Obama.

Trey Gowdy said we need to ask obama if he knew of this quid pro quo AND DID HE AUTHORIZE IT?

That makes it KEY in this impeachment hearing...and if the democrats insist on calling witnesses...well...

It's a good question. Did Ukrain call Obama? Is there a transcript of the call? we need to see that.

 

[Crixus]

You really can’t make this up can you. While the Senate impeachment trial is going on Fox ignores it. Not only ignores it but spreads lies to its ignorant base. Wow..sad..really, really sad.

Telling lies to combat lies don't make one look smart, just makes them look like a liar.

Scary stuff right there.

Yup. Flexibility to do what? Where was Russia at that point in its invasion of the Ukrain? Was aid ongoing at the time of that meeting? Did Obamas relationship with Vlad have anything to do with Obama refusing to authorize lethal aid to Ukrain? Yup. All questions that need asking.

 

[White 6]

WHy in the hell are our tax dollars going to buy javelin missiles for Ukraine anyways?

Ukraine can be thought of as a proxy delaying war with Russia against US and NATO. Puting would rather continue to stir and divide Ukraine until it falls from within and willingly comes back under Russia as in the cold war days, but he may get tired of waiting. Russia and Ukraine have the two largest single nation armies over there, but if Russia went full force, a blocking maneuver using Javelins to take out the Russian tanks, is a better option than trusting the ability of Ukraines older tanks to stand toe to toe for an extended assault. Javelins in quantity couple with available Ukraine tanks could hold stand off a couple of Russian motorized rifle divisions, or at least that is the theory. Javelins much cheaper and more diplomatic than taking a chance on troops. Ukraine desires to be NATO aligned, but is not a member of NATO. At the same time, is second largest country over there and buts up against NATO allies we actually are pledged to support. Putin is just playing chess, and he's not bad at it.

What a load of bullshit.

And what is your theory for why we are supporting Ukraine? Do not underestimate the Russian bear.

 

[ChrisL]

WHy in the hell are our tax dollars going to buy javelin missiles for Ukraine anyways?

Because it is good for peoples 401k's

What? I'm being serious here. I want to know what is going on with our government officials and their families involved in the Ukraine. Something about this stinks. It seems like NOBODY wants to investigate. Instead, they will beat the hell out of Trump for a phone call and making an inquiry about having an investigation! So shady!

We all went over this, and over this last year. . . A LOT.

I'm really sort of tired of it by now.

Where were you back in September?

Here is stuff from my posts back then;

I just don't get it, we have them on film!!
"Yeah, he was corrupt and biased toward Russia, but the fact is? Biden is corrupt too.

Folks in this thread, and on this forum have this fallacious thinking that there are only good guys and bad guys.

News for you, there are only bad guys. Biden is corrupt, and Shokin is corrupt. Just because Biden might be telling the truth? Does not mean Shokin and Russia are lying.


It doesn't matter if Shokin was good for the USA or not, he was supposed to be working for Ukraine. They are not our vassal state, just b/c we funded the Neo-Nazis that created the coup.

Report: Former Ukrainian Prosecutor Viktor Shokin Swore Biden’s Pressure Led to His Firing
Report: Former Ukrainian Prosecutor Viktor Shokin Swore Biden's Pressure Led to His Firing
Shokin’s Statement

Before I start with this section, I have to say that it is hard who to believe: Biden or Shokin. There are red flags over Biden, but the fact is Shokin is corrupt. He even disgusted me and he would have a grudge over his firing.

Solomon got ahold of Shokin’s sworn statements about his firing. He reported:

Ukrainian prosecutors say they have tried to get this information to the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) since the summer of 2018, fearing it might be evidence of possible violations of U.S. ethics laws. First, they hired a former federal prosecutor to bring the information to the U.S. attorney in New York, who, they say, showed no interest. Then, the Ukrainians reached out to President Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani.

Ukraine’s new president, Volodymyr Zelensky, told Trump in July that he plans to launch his own wide-ranging investigation into what happened with the Bidens and Burisma.

“I’m knowledgeable about the situation,” Zelensky told Trump, asking the American president to forward any evidence he might know about. “The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case.”

As you can tell that backs up Zelensky’s statement. It looks like Ukraine really did want to get to the bottom of the Burisma investigation.

Here is the key point in the document:


Shokin Statement

Austrian court clears way for U.S. extradition of Ukrainian tycoon Firtash
Austrian court clears way for U.S. extradition of Ukrainian tycoon Firtash"

AND

We do not want a transcript of the call, we want the Whistleblower's

"but Ukrainian authorities have cleared Biden of any wrongdoing."


You mean the puppet regime of Washington, the neo-nazis that were put in power AFTER Biden called for the removal of a prosecutor in Ukraine in 2014! Those are the folks that cleared Biden? C'mon, wake the fuck up dude. Now you are siding with Nazis?

There were a total of 39 candidates for the election on the ballot. The 2014 annexation of Crimea by Russia and the occupation of parts of Donetsk Oblast and Luhansk Oblast prevented around 12% of eligible voters from participating in the election.
2019 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia



What America’s Coup in Ukraine Did
What America’s Coup in Ukraine Did

". . . America’s criminal ‘news’ media never even reported the coup, nor that in 2011 the Obama regime began planning for a coup in Ukraine. And that by 1 March 2013 they started organizing it inside the U.S. Embassy there. And that they hired members of Ukraine’s two racist-fascist, or nazi, political parties, Right Sector and Svoboda (which latter had been called the Social Nationalist Party of Ukraine until the CIA advised them to change it to Freedom Party, or “Svoboda” instead). And that in February 2014 they did it (and here’s the 4 February 2014 phone call instructing the U.S. Ambassador whom to place in charge of the new regime when the coup will be completed), under the cover of authentic anti-corruption demonstrations that the Embassy organized on the Maidan Square in Kiev, demonstrations that the criminal U.S. ‘news’ media misrepresented as ‘democracy demonstrations,’ though Ukraine already had democracy (but still lots of corruption, even more than today’s U.S. does, and the pontificating Obama said he was trying to end Ukraine’s corruption — which instead actually soared after his coup there).

The head of the ‘private CIA’ firm Stratfor said it was “the most blatant coup in history” but he couldn’t say that to Americans, because he knows that our press is just a mouthpiece for the regime (just like it was during the lead-up to George W. Bush’s equally unprovoked invasion of Iraq — for which America’s ‘news’ media suffered likewise no penalties).
When subsequently accused by neocons for his having said this, his response was “I told the business journal Kommersant that if the US were behind a coup in Kiev, it would have been the most blatant coup in history,” but he was lying to say this, because, as I pointed out when writing about that rejoinder of his, he had, in fact, made quite clear in his Kommersant interview, that it was, in his view “the most blatant coup in history,” no conditionals on that.

Everybody knows what Obama, and Clinton, and Sarkozy, did to Libya — in their zeal to eliminate yet another nation’s leader who was friendly toward Russia (Muammar Gaddafi), they turned one of the highest-living-standard nations in Africa into a failed state and huge source of refugees (as well as of weapons that the Clinton State Department transferred to the jihadists in Syria to bring down Bashar al-Assad, another ally of Russia) — but the ‘news’ media have continued to hide what Obama (assisted by America’s European allies, especially Poland and Netherlands, and also by America’s apartheid Middle Eastern ally, Israel) did to Ukraine.. . . "

This is a good primer too

RAY McGOVERN: Ukraine For Dummies
RAY McGOVERN: Ukraine For Dummies

Shokin may have been corrupt, but he made those statements after he was already fired. Joe Biden has more to gain by lying.

 

[ChrisL]

WHy in the hell are our tax dollars going to buy javelin missiles for Ukraine anyways?

Ukraine can be thought of as a proxy delaying war with Russia against US and NATO. Puting would rather continue to stir and divide Ukraine until it falls from within and willingly comes back under Russia as in the cold war days, but he may get tired of waiting. Russia and Ukraine have the two largest single nation armies over there, but if Russia went full force, a blocking maneuver using Javelins to take out the Russian tanks, is a better option than trusting the ability of Ukraines older tanks to stand toe to toe for an extended assault. Javelins in quantity couple with available Ukraine tanks could hold stand off a couple of Russian motorized rifle divisions, or at least that is the theory. Javelins much cheaper and more diplomatic than taking a chance on troops. Ukraine desires to be NATO aligned, but is not a member of NATO. At the same time, is second largest country over there and buts up against NATO allies we actually are pledged to support. Putin is just playing chess, and he's not bad at it.

What a load of bullshit.

Yes, unfortunately, we have a lot of citizens who have been brainwashed to trust the establishment. Ignorant, complacent and brainwashed.

 

[MisterBeale]

Joe Biden does not want to discuss this at ALL.

Joe Biden & Ukraine: Former VP Warns Media against Shopping ‘Conclusively Debunked’ Corruption Allegations During Impeachment Trial | National Review

The former vice president and his son could be called by Republicans as witnesses in the upcoming trial. Last week, Senator Rand Paul (R., Ky.) said that the Bidens should be called if the upper chamber votes to hear witnesses.

“If the president is being accused of withholding foreign aid, and his argument is, ‘Well, we were studying corruption, and we wanted to know about corruption in Ukraine,’ and I think the Bidens are as corrupt as the day is long,” Paul argued. “No young man who is the son of a politician gets $50,000 a month who has no experience, working for a Ukrainian oligarch. You know, for goodness sakes — it smells to high heaven. It smells like corruption.”

This is true, but there is A LOT more corruption that goes all the way up to the Atlantic Coucil that is orders of magnitude more powerful, that is covering for them.

I already posted this link, which leads back to tons of folks.

Politicians and their Families are Playing in the Corrupt Ukrainian Sandbox – Dr. Rich Swier


Dmitri Alperovitch - Wikipedia

CrowdStrike Revises Russian Hack Into Ukrainian Artillery

Cyber Firm Rewrites Part of Disputed Russian Hacking Report

You are correct, a thorough investigation IS NOT what they want.

Both establishment Republicans, Democrats, and the bureaucrats are all in on the epistemological paradigm. Any deviation CANNOT be tolerated, mostly because a lot of families and a lot of jobs depend on it. Thus, Trump was trying to expose something that did not want or need to be exposed, which worked against him being elected. There was a lot of media and propaganda associated with it.

Does it go all the way up to Obama? Sure, probably. But folks would probably have to be assassinated and killed before he would ever be called to testify. Even he you could force him to the stand, he would still never be able to be proved to tell a lie from the truth. Much of the hard evidence was/is digit. I don't think it can ever be recalled anymore. I'm not sure. Bill Binny says one thing, John Brenner says another.