Obama proud of torturing american civilians.

[driveby]

Tell us all about it. This explains ALL of the terrorist attacks we have had since this weak President has been in office, right?

The mass shooting in Texas and the underwear bomber, both foiled by the sooper Obama administration !

Don't forget the rightwing terrorist who flew a plane into an IRS building

Dodge and deflect, expected ............


P.S. That "right wing" terrorist had some nice little far left views, sorry msnbc left that out of their reports .......

 

[CMike]

Of what possible relevance are these editorials other than to prove that liberals lie, which we already know?

I already documented it in the OP by providing the link to the Obama declassified DOJ/CIA memo.

Thanks for showing that liberals lie though.

Actually the memo, which the CIA and the W administration did not want released, is contradictory and doesn't match the FACTS.

Fact: Zubaydah was captured on March 28, 2002

Fact: padilla was arrested on May 8, 2002

Fact: enhanced interrogation techniques were not approved for use on zubaydah until Aug 2002.

Fact: KSM was captured on March 1, 2003

Fact: the LA library tower plot was prevented in 2002 according to the Bush white house.

The FACTS don't support the claims made in that memo that was written in 2005.

As the Bush administration was trying to cover its ass and save face after the Abu Ghraib photos came out.

The DOJ/CIA memo was declassified by Obama.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Actually the memo, which the CIA and the W administration did not want released, is contradictory and doesn't match the FACTS.

Fact: Zubaydah was captured on March 28, 2002

Fact: padilla was arrested on May 8, 2002

Fact: enhanced interrogation techniques were not approved for use on zubaydah until Aug 2002.

Fact: KSM was captured on March 1, 2003

Fact: the LA library tower plot was prevented in 2002 according to the Bush white house.

The FACTS don't support the claims made in that memo that was written in 2005.

As the Bush administration was trying to cover its ass and save face after the Abu Ghraib photos came out.

The DOJ/CIA memo was declassified by Obama.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey.....Seedy Mike.........are you gonna answer proletarian's questions?

I'm betting you can't, because you only look at one pixel of information, rather than the whole screen.

 

[Vanquish]

CMike...even if all of your "facts" are correct...

The ends dont justify the means. You dont put someone through excruciating torture to save even one life.

Why do you DENY the FACT that the FF's said the right to NO CRUEL OR UNUSUAL TORTURE is INALIENABLE?????

Answer THAT. Come on. I dare ya. Let me help you. That applies to ALL citizens of the planet Earth.

 

[drsmith1072]

Obama says waterboarding was torture

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama said Wednesday night that waterboarding authorized by former President George W. Bush was torture and that the information it gained from terror suspects could have been obtained by other means. "In some cases, it may be harder," he conceded at a White House news conference capping a whirlwind first 100 days in office.

The waterboarding of 3 arch terrorists saved thousands of american lives from torture.

If the terrorist attacks occurred, thousands of US civilians would have died from fire, and radiation. Of course, hundreds would have just been murdered by the plane crashing into a LA building

By protecting the 3 terrorists from being waterboarded, had Obama been president, the terrorist attacks would have occurred and americans would have been tortured.

http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf

So you like torturing people.

Let's see, President Obama has been in office for over a year now, and how many Americans have died in terrorist attacks in the US?

And how many had died at this point in Bush's administration? In spite of over 50 explicit warning during the summer.

The difference douche bag is after 911 Pres. Bush learned and put in safeguards that protected this country for 7 years.

Obama who went on his Al Qaida "terrorist rights" crusade managed to allow 3 Al Qaida terrorist attacks within America in his first year.

So you count the underpants bomber as a terrorist but not the shoe bomber??

And you count the ft hood incident as a terrorist act but not the dc sniper??

Do you often try to make your points by completely ignoring the facts??

What other attack are you talking about that was allowed in obama's first year??

 

[rightwinger]

So you like torturing people.

Let's see, President Obama has been in office for over a year now, and how many Americans have died in terrorist attacks in the US?

And how many had died at this point in Bush's administration? In spite of over 50 explicit warning during the summer.

The difference douche bag is after 911 Pres. Bush learned and put in safeguards that protected this country for 7 years.

Obama who went on his Al Qaida "terrorist rights" crusade managed to allow 3 Al Qaida terrorist attacks within America in his first year.

So you count the underpants bomber as a terrorist but not the shoe bomber??

And you count the ft hood incident as a terrorist act but not the dc sniper??

Do you often try to make your points by completely ignoring the facts??

What other attack are you talking about that was allowed in obama's first year??

Don't forget all the abortion clinic bombings that took place under Bush. In fact, for most US citizens, right wing terrorists are a bigger threat than muslim terrorists

 

[CMike]

The difference douche bag is after 911 Pres. Bush learned and put in safeguards that protected this country for 7 years.

Obama who went on his Al Qaida "terrorist rights" crusade managed to allow 3 Al Qaida terrorist attacks within America in his first year.

So you count the underpants bomber as a terrorist but not the shoe bomber??

And you count the ft hood incident as a terrorist act but not the dc sniper??

Do you often try to make your points by completely ignoring the facts??

What other attack are you talking about that was allowed in obama's first year??

Don't forget all the abortion clinic bombings that took place under Bush. In fact, for most US citizens, right wing terrorists are a bigger threat than muslim terrorists

I wrote Al Qaida terrorist attacks, not all Al Qaida attacks.

That's who the war is against.

 

[CMike]

CMike...even if all of your "facts" are correct...

The ends dont justify the means. You dont put someone through excruciating torture to save even one life.

Why do you DENY the FACT that the FF's said the right to NO CRUEL OR UNUSUAL TORTURE is INALIENABLE?????

Answer THAT. Come on. I dare ya. Let me help you. That applies to ALL citizens of the planet Earth.

Don't get your panties in a bunch.

This is from the memo.

http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf

Page 8 section 3
Medical and psychological professionals from the CIA's Office of MedIcal Services
("OMS") carefully evaluate detaInees before any enhanced technique is authorized in order to
ensure that the detainee "is not likely to suffer any severe physical or mential pain Of suffering as
a result of interrogation." Techniques at 4; see OMSGuidelines on Medical and Psychological
Support to Detainee Rendition, Interrogation and Detention at 9 (Dec. 2004) (HOMS
Guideline.f'). In addition, OMS officials continuously rnonitors the detainee's condition
throughout any interrogation using enhanced techniques, and the interrogation team will stop the
use ofparticular techniques or the interrogation altogether lithe detainee's medical or
psychological condition indicates that the detainee might suffer signnificant physical or mental
harm. See Techniques at 5-6.

OMS has, in fact, prohibited the use ofcertain techniques in the
interrogations of certain detainees: .See id.at 5. Thus, no technique is used in tbtlinterrogation
detainee----no matter how valuable the information the CIA believes the detainee has~if
medical and psychologicaal evaluations or ongoing monitoring suggest that the detainee is
to suffer serious bann. Careful records are kept bfeach interrogation, which ensures
accountability and allows for ongoing evaluation of the efficacy of each technique and its
potential for any unintended or inappropriate results. See id,

If I thought a terrorist attack was imminent and information gotten from a terrorist could stop it and save american lives, I would volunteer to splash them with the first bucket of water.

 

[CMike]

So you like torturing people.

Let's see, President Obama has been in office for over a year now, and how many Americans have died in terrorist attacks in the US?

And how many had died at this point in Bush's administration? In spite of over 50 explicit warning during the summer.

The difference douche bag is after 911 Pres. Bush learned and put in safeguards that protected this country for 7 years.

Obama who went on his Al Qaida "terrorist rights" crusade managed to allow 3 Al Qaida terrorist attacks within America in his first year.

So you count the underpants bomber as a terrorist but not the shoe bomber??

And you count the ft hood incident as a terrorist act but not the dc sniper??

Do you often try to make your points by completely ignoring the facts??

What other attack are you talking about that was allowed in obama's first year??

The shoe bomber occurred about two months after 911, before Pres. Bush could implement safeguards.

I said the previous 7 years before the Obama seige.

Ft Hood was Al Qaida linked, D.C. sniper wasn't.

I was pretty clear with what I said.

 

[drsmith1072]

Of what possible relevance are these editorials other than to prove that liberals lie, which we already know?

I already documented it in the OP by providing the link to the Obama declassified DOJ/CIA memo.

Thanks for showing that liberals lie though.

Actually the memo, which the CIA and the W administration did not want released, is contradictory and doesn't match the FACTS.

Fact: Zubaydah was captured on March 28, 2002

Fact: padilla was arrested on May 8, 2002

Fact: enhanced interrogation techniques were not approved for use on zubaydah until Aug 2002.

Fact: KSM was captured on March 1, 2003

Fact: the LA library tower plot was prevented in 2002 according to the Bush white house.

The FACTS don't support the claims made in that memo that was written in 2005.

Your last fact is wrong.

Despite some captures, the plot was still going on.

The formatting is messed up. If you go to the link, page 10, you can read it without the messed up formatting.

The formatting is lost, it's page 10.

http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/cli...5_bradbury.pdf

With these caveats, we tum to specific examples that you have provided to us. You have
informed us that the interrogation ofKSM.....-,Ql1ce enhanced techniques were employed-led to
the discovery ofaKSM piot, the "Second Wave," "to use East Asian operatives fo crash Ii
hijacked airliner into" a building in Los Angeles. Fjfectiveness Memo at 3, You have informed
us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture ofRidl.ltil1 bin Isomudditl, better
known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member lemaah Islatniyah cell
tasked with executing the "Second Wave," See/d. at 3-4; CIA Directorate ofJIltellige.l1ce, AlQa
'ida's Ties to Other Key Terror Grotlps: Terrorists Links in a Chain 2 (Aug. 28, 2003), More
specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he bad . " a
of money to an a1 Qaeda associate.

Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who
was thcncaptured. Zubair, in turn, provided jnformation that led to the arrest ofHambali. See
id The infor.n1ation acquired from these captures allm'lcd CIA interrogi.1Jors to pose more
specific questions to KSlvf, which led the CIA Hambali's brother, al-HadL Using information
obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi "vas captured, and he subsequently identified the Guraba
cd!. See id at 1 With the aid oftbis additional information, interrogations ofHambali
confirmed much of what was learned from KSM6

Once again "and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member lemaah Islatniyah ceil
tasked with executing the "Second Wave"


Bottom of page 8 to page 9

"In particular, the CIA ,believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees,
including KSM lind Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques,

...Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its
interrogation of KSh1, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks,
simpiy noting, "Soon, you will know."

...We understand that tneuse of enhanced techniques
in the interrogations of KSM!, Zubaydah, and others, by contrast, has yielded critical information


...With these caveats, we tum to specific examples that you have provided to us. You have
informed us that the interrogation ofKSM.....-,Once enhanced techniques were employed-led to
the discovery ofa KSM plot, the "Second Wave," "to use East Asian operatives fo crash a
hijacked airliner into" a building in Los Angeles building.

...You have informed us that Zubaydah also "provided significant infonnation
on two operatives, [including] Jose Padilla-[,] who planned to build and detonate a 'dirty bombin Washington DC area."

No the FACTS are correct, where as that memo is based on BS that cannot be true based on the FACTS. My guess is that is why the CIA and the bush administration did not want to release the memo.

Here is a briefing presented by W's white house.

Press Briefing on the West Coast Terrorist Plot by Frances Fragos Townsend, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism
The cell leader was arrested in February of 2002, and as we begin -- at that point, the other members of the cell believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled, was not going forward. You'll recall that KSM was then arrested in April of 2003 -- or was it March -- I'm sorry, March of 2003.

and here is a link to a bush fact sheet that says

In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles.
Fact Sheet: Keeping America Safe From Attack

So even they admit that the plot concerning the FOUR terrorists to attack the Library tower was prevented in 2002 BEFORE KSM was captured in 2003 or had enhanced interrogation techniques used on him.

Furthermore, none of the excerpts that you provided support your claim that

Despite some captures, the plot was still going on.

so where is your proof that "the plot was still going on"??

I provided proof using info from bush's own white house and the very memo that you are citing to back up my statement and yet all you have done is provide excerpts from that memo misrepresent them and claim that the say something that they do NOT say.

 

[CMike]

This is from your own link

The President today highlighted one example of a disrupted plot, in which al Qaeda intended to use a hijacked airliner to attack the West Coast of the United States. I should say, he used the phrase "Liberty Tower," that should have been "Library Tower."

Perhaps the editorialist shouldn't change around what Pres. Bush said.

There were numerous terrorist attacks foiled.

The only mention in the memo says a Los Angeles building, it doesn't say which one.

There can be more than one plot that was foiled.

A little more comprehension issues.


at that point, the other members of the cell believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled

"Believed" doesn't mean it was cancelled. If you read the memo, it says how one terorrist cell lead to another which ultimately got to the Gurambi cell which was charged with the plot.

Your side makes a lot of assumptions.

 

[drsmith1072]

So you count the underpants bomber as a terrorist but not the shoe bomber??

And you count the ft hood incident as a terrorist act but not the dc sniper??

Do you often try to make your points by completely ignoring the facts??

What other attack are you talking about that was allowed in obama's first year??

Don't forget all the abortion clinic bombings that took place under Bush. In fact, for most US citizens, right wing terrorists are a bigger threat than muslim terrorists

I wrote Al Qaida terrorist attacks, not all Al Qaida attacks.

That's who the war is against.

actually your exact words were "The difference douche bag is after 911 Pres. Bush learned and put in safeguards that protected this country for 7 years.[/quote]

And yet despite your false claim the shoe bombing attempt occured AFTER 9/11 and with in those seven years AFTER 9/11.

 

[drsmith1072]

The difference douche bag is after 911 Pres. Bush learned and put in safeguards that protected this country for 7 years.

Obama who went on his Al Qaida "terrorist rights" crusade managed to allow 3 Al Qaida terrorist attacks within America in his first year.

So you count the underpants bomber as a terrorist but not the shoe bomber??

And you count the ft hood incident as a terrorist act but not the dc sniper??

Do you often try to make your points by completely ignoring the facts??

What other attack are you talking about that was allowed in obama's first year??

The shoe bomber occurred about two months after 911, before Pres. Bush could implement safeguards.

I said the previous 7 years before the Obama seige.

Ft Hood was Al Qaida linked, D.C. sniper wasn't.

I was pretty clear with what I said.

LOL It's hilarious to watch spin as you start trying to apply all of these exemptions and excuses to try and cover for the bush administration. LOL

Fact is that you said AFTER 9/11 W kept us safe and yet the shoe bombing incident and the DC sniper incident counters that spin. LOL

BTW since you continue to make the wonderful and outrageous claims can you state exactly what safeguards that W put in place were removed by obama that allowed the three attacks?? Come on. Back up your points with something REAL for a change, IF you can. LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

This is from your own link

The President today highlighted one example of a disrupted plot, in which al Qaeda intended to use a hijacked airliner to attack the West Coast of the United States. I should say, he used the phrase "Liberty Tower," that should have been "Library Tower."

Perhaps the editorialist shouldn't change around what Pres. Bush said.

There were numerous terrorist attacks foiled.

The only mention in the memo says a Los Angeles building, it doesn't say which one.

There can be more than one plot that was foiled.

A little more comprehension issues.


at that point, the other members of the cell believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled

"Believed" doesn't mean it was cancelled. If you read the memo, it says how one terorrist cell lead to another which ultimately got to the Gurambi cell which was charged with the plot.

Your side makes a lot of assumptions.

LOL coming from the poster making nothing BUT assumptions that's hilarious. LOL Still waiting on you to show where in the memo it says waterboarding led to the info when it only lists "enhanced techniques" as well as for you to show where it shows that the plot on the library tower continued. Your entire spiel is nothing but assumptions. LOL

My quote comes directly from one of bush's own people that was made AFTER they had captured and questioned all FOUR of the terrorists behind the plot to attack the library tower.
So are you trying to say that the bush white house was lying about it back in 2006 and 2007 when they claimed to have prevented the attack in 2002 a year BEFORE they captured and questioned KSM?? lol

Furthermore in bush's own fact sheet it says that they found out what the target was. Unlike you I am not trying to base my argument on one single source but all that apply which is why we know that the target in LA was the library tower.

also, this claim from the memo,

You have informed us that Zubaydah also "provided significant information
on two operatives, [including] Jose Padilla-[,] who planned to build and detonate a 'dirty bombin Washington DC area."

if garnered from zubaydah it was not done so through "enhanced interrogation techniques" because padilla was captured in May 2002, months BEFORE harsh interrogation techniques were approved for zubaydah in aug 2002. So since the memo claims this capture was brought about by the use of the enhanced techniques that were not deployed until AFTER padilla had already been captured then the only conclusion to draw is that the memo contains false info.

Your spin has been countered at every turn and yet you continue to try to spin some more. LOL

 

[CMike]

Page 8 right before section 3

The CIA l!;slXl the waterboard extensively in the interrogations ofKSM and Zubaydah,
but did so only after it became clear that standard interrogation techniques Were not working.
Interrogators used enhanced techniques in the intertogation ofal-Nashiri with notable results as
as the first day. See 1G Report at 35-36. Twelve days into the interrogation, the CIA
subjected a!~Nashiri to one session ofthewaterboard during which water was applied two times,
See id, at 36.

 

[CMike]

So you count the underpants bomber as a terrorist but not the shoe bomber??

And you count the ft hood incident as a terrorist act but not the dc sniper??

Do you often try to make your points by completely ignoring the facts??

What other attack are you talking about that was allowed in obama's first year??

The shoe bomber occurred about two months after 911, before Pres. Bush could implement safeguards.

I said the previous 7 years before the Obama seige.

Ft Hood was Al Qaida linked, D.C. sniper wasn't.

I was pretty clear with what I said.

LOL It's hilarious to watch spin as you start trying to apply all of these exemptions and excuses to try and cover for the bush administration. LOL

Fact is that you said AFTER 9/11 W kept us safe and yet the shoe bombing incident and the DC sniper incident counters that spin. LOL

BTW since you continue to make the wonderful and outrageous claims can you state exactly what safeguards that W put in place were removed by obama that allowed the three attacks?? Come on. Back up your points with something REAL for a change, IF you can. LOL

i was very specific what I said.

In Obama's first year we had 3 al qaida terrorist attacks within the US. The previous 7 we were protecting from them.

What is unclear?

 

[drsmith1072]

Page 8 right before section 3

The CIA l!;slXl the waterboard extensively in the interrogations ofKSM and Zubaydah,
but did so only after it became clear that standard interrogation techniques Were not working.
Interrogators used enhanced techniques in the intertogation ofal-Nashiri with notable results as
as the first day. See 1G Report at 35-36. Twelve days into the interrogation, the CIA
subjected a!~Nashiri to one session ofthewaterboard during which water was applied two times,
See id, at 36.

What is this in response to??

 

[drsmith1072]

The shoe bomber occurred about two months after 911, before Pres. Bush could implement safeguards.

I said the previous 7 years before the Obama seige.

Ft Hood was Al Qaida linked, D.C. sniper wasn't.

I was pretty clear with what I said.

LOL It's hilarious to watch spin as you start trying to apply all of these exemptions and excuses to try and cover for the bush administration. LOL

Fact is that you said AFTER 9/11 W kept us safe and yet the shoe bombing incident and the DC sniper incident counters that spin. LOL

BTW since you continue to make the wonderful and outrageous claims can you state exactly what safeguards that W put in place were removed by obama that allowed the three attacks?? Come on. Back up your points with something REAL for a change, IF you can. LOL

i was very specific what I said.

In Obama's first year we had 3 al qaida terrorist attacks within the US. The previous 7 we were protecting from them.

What is unclear?

WOW more spin. Aparrently that is all you ahve to offer.

BTW since you continue to make the wonderful and outrageous claims can you state exactly what safeguards that W put in place were removed by obama that allowed the three attacks?? Come on. Back up your points with something REAL for a change, IF you can. LOL

Second time i have asked that and my guess is this will be the second time you avoid answering it.

and then there is this question that you avoided.

none of the excerpts that you provided support your claim that

Despite some captures, the plot was still going on.

So where is your proof that "the plot was still going on"??


I keep asking you questions and you keep avoiding them?? Why is that?? LOL

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey.........CMike............smile like a donut ************, Dr. Smith has your ass PWNED!

Great job at handling this douche Dr. Smith. Welcome to the boards.