Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

[2aguy]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

It is not free....we willl pay for this and then community colleges will suck as bad as public education at the grade school and high school level......and the cost of Community college will go up as well....since the government is paying for it........right?

 

[dannyboys]

And how many of the high school kids who were 'streamed' in order to get them the **** out of the high school will gladly spend the next two years learning as much as they did in high school which was sweet **** all. And who's going to pay the LIB/Socialist/Union (cough) professors? The ******* 'Takers' or the Makers?
"I hear you're going off to college for two years tuition free soon. What are you going to study?"
"I don't know. Do you have to study something? [Is their] courses on how to get rich?"

 

[hadit]

And how many of the high school kids who were 'streamed' in order to get them the **** out of the high school will gladly spend the next two years learning as much as they did in high school which was sweet **** all. And who's going to pay the LIB/Socialist/Union (cough) professors? The ******* 'Takers' or the Makers?
"I hear you're going off to college for two years tuition free soon. What are you going to study?"
"I don't know. Do you have to study something? [Is their] courses on how to get rich?"

Bingo. The only time an education is worth anything is when the student actually learns something. Merely marinating the students in the classroom for an extra two years does no good if they're not going to work to learn.

 

[Pogo]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

It is not free....we willl pay for this and then community colleges will suck as bad as public education at the grade school and high school level......and the cost of Community college will go up as well....since the government is paying for it........right?

This ^^ is exactly what I predicted ---- rhetorical wankers with nothing constructive to add except to crow "will never work", carrying with them no basis at all.

If you're not imaginative enough to come up with a way it will work, then you're part of what's keeping it from happening. Naysayers have never accomplished anything but naysaying.

 

[Pogo]

Could be, could be indeed from the political dynamic standpoint. Hey that's purty smart, you been ta school, boy?

Yes, very much puts the opposition between a rock and a hard place, because now they have to make the argument on why education is a bad thing. At best they'll prolly sputter the old standby "will never work", as we've already heard from one of the deeper wags in this thread.

But there's never anything wrong with proposing an ideal and suggesting "what if". That's how improvements eventually get done.

You're right, it does put the opposition between a rock and a hard place, but only because #1: The "opposition" (ie: Republican party) doesn't have anyone who can concisely and clearly explain their position, and #2: the media spins every message so far to the left.

Nobody is arguing "education is a bad thing." Just like nobody is arguing that food, housing, cell phones, transportation, etc (ad nauseum) are "bad things". However when some of us have to provide all of these things for other people, and those people get them for "free", it devalues those things.

Look at the areas that have "free housing". Do you want to live next door?

Once again....

Making food, housing, cellphones, transportation etc available to the masses doesn't directly benefit the community as a whole, i.e. they don't produce a more productive citizen. That's why this comparison is still apples and oranges.

Look at it this way: a society handing out free stuff that benefits nobody but the recipient is just handing out free stuff. A society investing in educating its own is investing in itself.

Additional education benefits no one?

On the contrary it benefits everyone -- the greater whole, the community at large. That's my whole point.

ONLY if the students actually get an education. Make it "free", and if you think too many students party too much and don't learn anything in college today....

Learning is never "free". Learning takes work, regardless who funds it.

 

[hortysir]

He needs more healthcare workers, IRS agents and insurance adjusters.


No such thing as free

 

[Pogo]

You're right, it does put the opposition between a rock and a hard place, but only because #1: The "opposition" (ie: Republican party) doesn't have anyone who can concisely and clearly explain their position, and #2: the media spins every message so far to the left.

Nobody is arguing "education is a bad thing." Just like nobody is arguing that food, housing, cell phones, transportation, etc (ad nauseum) are "bad things". However when some of us have to provide all of these things for other people, and those people get them for "free", it devalues those things.

Look at the areas that have "free housing". Do you want to live next door?

Once again....

Making food, housing, cellphones, transportation etc available to the masses doesn't directly benefit the community as a whole, i.e. they don't produce a more productive citizen. That's why this comparison is still apples and oranges.

Look at it this way: a society handing out free stuff that benefits nobody but the recipient is just handing out free stuff. A society investing in educating its own is investing in itself.

Food, housing, communications, and transportation certainly does benefit the community as a whole, and investment in these things is indeed a good thing, just like investing in education.

However "investing" in these things should NOT mean giving them to people for FREE. That isn't good investing, because (once again....) it devalues the very thing we are invest in.

I'll ask you again. Do you want to live next door to the "free housing" areas??

And I'll answer again -- it hasn't changed:

​

See post 85 -- you continue to try to equate the material with the conceptual. If somebody gives you a free car, free house, free food etc, it requires no work on your part. That's why they're not comparable. Education is participatory. Not to mention that unlike cars, houses and food, it doesn't wear out or burn up -- it's forever.

In one sense it's kind of absurd for a culture to require as much education as possible for its citizen to develop his or her potential, and then turn around and demand he/she pay for it. That wasn't the child's choice. Neither the microcosm (the parents) nor the macrocosm (the greater culture) has the right to bring a child into a complex world and then just shrug and say, "well, you're on your own, rotsa ruck".

If the culture demands some level of sophistication, then the onus is on that same culture to provide it. Also known as the concept of "level playing field". If you don't provide it, then all you're doing is creating and perpetuating a striated social class system. And the more sophistication you require and make beyond the reach of the lower caste, the wider that gap grows.

 

[hortysir]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

It is not free....we willl pay for this and then community colleges will suck as bad as public education at the grade school and high school level......and the cost of Community college will go up as well....since the government is paying for it........right?

This ^^ is exactly what I predicted ---- rhetorical wankers with nothing constructive to add except to crow "will never work", carrying with them no basis at all.

If you're not imaginative enough to come up with a way it will work, then you're part of what's keeping it from happening. Naysayers have never accomplished anything but naysaying.

If someone disagrees with a plan why should they come up with ideas to make it work?
If you want free colleges incorporate them into the bloated public school system.......we all know how helpful it is

 

[Pogo]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

It is not free....we willl pay for this and then community colleges will suck as bad as public education at the grade school and high school level......and the cost of Community college will go up as well....since the government is paying for it........right?

This ^^ is exactly what I predicted ---- rhetorical wankers with nothing constructive to add except to crow "will never work", carrying with them no basis at all.

If you're not imaginative enough to come up with a way it will work, then you're part of what's keeping it from happening. Naysayers have never accomplished anything but naysaying.

If someone disagrees with a plan why should they come up with ideas to make it work?
If you want free colleges incorporate them into the bloated public school system.......we all know how helpful it is

Back up there -- if someone disagrees with an idea they need to have a basis for that disagreement. Something with a bit more meat on its bones than "will never work". You can't just walk around spitting "will never work" and never have to say why it "will never work". That's what I mean by wanking.

 

[hortysir]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

It is not free....we willl pay for this and then community colleges will suck as bad as public education at the grade school and high school level......and the cost of Community college will go up as well....since the government is paying for it........right?

This ^^ is exactly what I predicted ---- rhetorical wankers with nothing constructive to add except to crow "will never work", carrying with them no basis at all.

If you're not imaginative enough to come up with a way it will work, then you're part of what's keeping it from happening. Naysayers have never accomplished anything but naysaying.

If someone disagrees with a plan why should they come up with ideas to make it work?
If you want free colleges incorporate them into the bloated public school system.......we all know how helpful it is

Back up there -- if someone disagrees with an idea they need to have a basis for that disagreement. Something with a bit more meat on its bones than "will never work". You can't just walk around spitting "will never work" and never have to say why it "will never work". That's what I mean by wanking.

How about, it's too expensive and we're broke?
That really doesn't matter much to this generation though

 

[Pogo]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

It is not free....we willl pay for this and then community colleges will suck as bad as public education at the grade school and high school level......and the cost of Community college will go up as well....since the government is paying for it........right?

This ^^ is exactly what I predicted ---- rhetorical wankers with nothing constructive to add except to crow "will never work", carrying with them no basis at all.

If you're not imaginative enough to come up with a way it will work, then you're part of what's keeping it from happening. Naysayers have never accomplished anything but naysaying.

If someone disagrees with a plan why should they come up with ideas to make it work?
If you want free colleges incorporate them into the bloated public school system.......we all know how helpful it is

Back up there -- if someone disagrees with an idea they need to have a basis for that disagreement. Something with a bit more meat on its bones than "will never work". You can't just walk around spitting "will never work" and never have to say why it "will never work". That's what I mean by wanking.

How about, it's too expensive and we're broke?
That really doesn't matter much to this generation though

Where are the figures to make that case? What's the funding for this idea?
oops -- it isn't articulated yet.

See what I mean? Naysaying before the plan is even constructed. Ergo -- wankers.

Wankers have never developed anything. They're the polar opposite of leaders and inventors. Rhetorical parasites.

 

[hortysir]

It is not free....we willl pay for this and then community colleges will suck as bad as public education at the grade school and high school level......and the cost of Community college will go up as well....since the government is paying for it........right?

This ^^ is exactly what I predicted ---- rhetorical wankers with nothing constructive to add except to crow "will never work", carrying with them no basis at all.

If you're not imaginative enough to come up with a way it will work, then you're part of what's keeping it from happening. Naysayers have never accomplished anything but naysaying.

If someone disagrees with a plan why should they come up with ideas to make it work?
If you want free colleges incorporate them into the bloated public school system.......we all know how helpful it is

Back up there -- if someone disagrees with an idea they need to have a basis for that disagreement. Something with a bit more meat on its bones than "will never work". You can't just walk around spitting "will never work" and never have to say why it "will never work". That's what I mean by wanking.

How about, it's too expensive and we're broke?
That really doesn't matter much to this generation though

Where are the figures to make that case? What's the funding for this idea?
oops -- it isn't articulated yet.

See what I mean? Naysaying before the plan is even constructed. Ergo -- wankers.

Wankers have never developed anything. They're the polar opposite of leaders and inventors. Rhetorical parasites.

Logic, son.....Logic.

If community college costs to attend now, it stands to reason that "free" community college (now attended by more students because of this plan) would cost more.

Also, how many of these students that will be working to "pay for it" will be working with a green card? I guess Obama's trying to plan ahead for the tidal wave of illegal children that just inundated our schools

 

[Carla_Danger]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

It is not free....we willl pay for this and then community colleges will suck as bad as public education at the grade school and high school level......and the cost of Community college will go up as well....since the government is paying for it........right?

This ^^ is exactly what I predicted ---- rhetorical wankers with nothing constructive to add except to crow "will never work", carrying with them no basis at all.

If you're not imaginative enough to come up with a way it will work, then you're part of what's keeping it from happening. Naysayers have never accomplished anything but naysaying.

If someone disagrees with a plan why should they come up with ideas to make it work?
If you want free colleges incorporate them into the bloated public school system.......we all know how helpful it is

Back up there -- if someone disagrees with an idea they need to have a basis for that disagreement. Something with a bit more meat on its bones than "will never work". You can't just walk around spitting "will never work" and never have to say why it "will never work". That's what I mean by wanking.

They might as well walk around and say "we can't do anything!"

 

[hortysir]

It's sad to think of har far and how fast this nation rose to greatness without a litany of "free" shit and how far we have diminished in such a short time since we began giving everything away for "free'

 

[SAYIT]

...In one sense it's kind of absurd for a culture to require as much education as possible for its citizen to develop his or her potential, and then turn around and demand he/she pay for it. That wasn't the child's choice. Neither the microcosm (the parents) nor the macrocosm (the greater culture) has the right to bring a child into a complex world and then just shrug and say, "well, you're on your own, rotsa ruck".

If the culture demands some level of sophistication, then the onus is on that same culture to provide it. Also known as the concept of "level playing field". If you don't provide it, then all you're doing is creating and perpetuating a striated social class system. And the more sophistication you require and make beyond the reach of the lower caste, the wider that gap grows.

Our culture requires neither "as much education as possible" nor "some level of sophistication." One is free in America to be as stupid and as ignorant as one chooses. Success, however, generally requires both and ambition is an individual's choice.

 

[hadit]

You're right, it does put the opposition between a rock and a hard place, but only because #1: The "opposition" (ie: Republican party) doesn't have anyone who can concisely and clearly explain their position, and #2: the media spins every message so far to the left.

Nobody is arguing "education is a bad thing." Just like nobody is arguing that food, housing, cell phones, transportation, etc (ad nauseum) are "bad things". However when some of us have to provide all of these things for other people, and those people get them for "free", it devalues those things.

Look at the areas that have "free housing". Do you want to live next door?

Once again....

Making food, housing, cellphones, transportation etc available to the masses doesn't directly benefit the community as a whole, i.e. they don't produce a more productive citizen. That's why this comparison is still apples and oranges.

Look at it this way: a society handing out free stuff that benefits nobody but the recipient is just handing out free stuff. A society investing in educating its own is investing in itself.

Additional education benefits no one?

On the contrary it benefits everyone -- the greater whole, the community at large. That's my whole point.

ONLY if the students actually get an education. Make it "free", and if you think too many students party too much and don't learn anything in college today....

Learning is never "free". Learning takes work, regardless who funds it.

And requiring that students have some skin in the game, either via some sort of civil service or by paying for some portion of their education, results in students who are more likely to do that work. Simply making community college a "free" two year extension of high school isn't going to do a lot of students any good, and will result in greater chaos for the colleges to absorb.

 

[dannyboys]

You're right, it does put the opposition between a rock and a hard place, but only because #1: The "opposition" (ie: Republican party) doesn't have anyone who can concisely and clearly explain their position, and #2: the media spins every message so far to the left.

Nobody is arguing "education is a bad thing." Just like nobody is arguing that food, housing, cell phones, transportation, etc (ad nauseum) are "bad things". However when some of us have to provide all of these things for other people, and those people get them for "free", it devalues those things.

Look at the areas that have "free housing". Do you want to live next door?

Once again....

Making food, housing, cellphones, transportation etc available to the masses doesn't directly benefit the community as a whole, i.e. they don't produce a more productive citizen. That's why this comparison is still apples and oranges.

Look at it this way: a society handing out free stuff that benefits nobody but the recipient is just handing out free stuff. A society investing in educating its own is investing in itself.

Food, housing, communications, and transportation certainly does benefit the community as a whole, and investment in these things is indeed a good thing, just like investing in education.

However "investing" in these things should NOT mean giving them to people for FREE. That isn't good investing, because (once again....) it devalues the very thing we are invest in.

I'll ask you again. Do you want to live next door to the "free housing" areas??

And I'll answer again -- it hasn't changed:

​

See post 85 -- you continue to try to equate the material with the conceptual. If somebody gives you a free car, free house, free food etc, it requires no work on your part. That's why they're not comparable. Education is participatory. Not to mention that unlike cars, houses and food, it doesn't wear out or burn up -- it's forever.

In one sense it's kind of absurd for a culture to require as much education as possible for its citizen to develop his or her potential, and then turn around and demand he/she pay for it. That wasn't the child's choice. If the culture demands some level of sophistication, then the onus is on that same culture to provide it. Also known as the concept of "level playing field".

If you don't provide it, then all you're doing is creating and perpetuating a striated social class system. And the more sophistication you require and make beyond the reach of the lower caste, the wider that gap grows.

You are making a critical mistake in your assumption.
You are assuming that high school graduates are leaving high school with the education base to be able to move on/up towards more challenging tasks successfully. The American education system is not providing this essential component. High school 'graduates' who are functionally illiterate are not going to succeed in any tangible way in a serious college environment.
Which high school 'graduates' with limited literacy skills are not going to want to spend a couple of years learning some more 'nothing' b/c they know there are no "good paying jobs" waiting for them after leaving high school?
In the college there are easy chairs and couches to relax on instead of that hard plastic desk after all.
Lot's of 'bonking' and drinking and getting shit faced.
About 80% of NY state high school graduates are functionally illiterate. And NY sstatespends more money in high schools than any state in the country.
80 of New York High School Grads Can 8217 t Read Despite Being No. 1 in School Spending FrontPage Magazine
BOBO needs to get his Socialist head out of his ass and spend the money starting in pre-schools hiring teachers who are actually educated.......not a bunch of union organized 'Affirmative Action' OJ jurors who don't know if a ******* duck is a ******* bird!

 

[Pogo]

This ^^ is exactly what I predicted ---- rhetorical wankers with nothing constructive to add except to crow "will never work", carrying with them no basis at all.

If you're not imaginative enough to come up with a way it will work, then you're part of what's keeping it from happening. Naysayers have never accomplished anything but naysaying.

If someone disagrees with a plan why should they come up with ideas to make it work?
If you want free colleges incorporate them into the bloated public school system.......we all know how helpful it is

Back up there -- if someone disagrees with an idea they need to have a basis for that disagreement. Something with a bit more meat on its bones than "will never work". You can't just walk around spitting "will never work" and never have to say why it "will never work". That's what I mean by wanking.

How about, it's too expensive and we're broke?
That really doesn't matter much to this generation though

Where are the figures to make that case? What's the funding for this idea?
oops -- it isn't articulated yet.

See what I mean? Naysaying before the plan is even constructed. Ergo -- wankers.

Wankers have never developed anything. They're the polar opposite of leaders and inventors. Rhetorical parasites.

Logic, son.....Logic.

If community college costs to attend now, it stands to reason that "free" community college (now attended by more students because of this plan) would cost more.

Also, how many of these students that will be working to "pay for it" will be working with a green card? I guess Obama's trying to plan ahead for the tidal wave of illegal children that just inundated our schools

Much desperation I smell. "Green cards"??

As already noted, you can't just bring children into the world that you've already made this complex and kick them to the curb. We're not birds running on instinct simply looking for berries and straw to make a nest; for better or worse (and it's both) we have used our brains to assemble this complex world. You bring a new soul into it, you owe that soul the tools to cope. What if you found a thread that interested you and it was on post 271 and the site wouldn't let you see the first 270? Wouldn't be much you could do with that thread, would there?

We already -- and this was certainly not always the case --- give these children the basic tools of language, reading and writing. Why do we invest in that, but then cut them loose with a half-assed background? How come we can afford that? What's the price of not doing that? Again, it's a striated caste society -- you'd just get there faster.

The other alternative is we go back to a hunter-gatherer society and all you need to know is where to find the bison and which plants are poisonous. But again, your culture would teach that too. And it doesn't charge you for it.

 

[hadit]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

It is not free....we willl pay for this and then community colleges will suck as bad as public education at the grade school and high school level......and the cost of Community college will go up as well....since the government is paying for it........right?

This ^^ is exactly what I predicted ---- rhetorical wankers with nothing constructive to add except to crow "will never work", carrying with them no basis at all.

If you're not imaginative enough to come up with a way it will work, then you're part of what's keeping it from happening. Naysayers have never accomplished anything but naysaying.

If someone disagrees with a plan why should they come up with ideas to make it work?
If you want free colleges incorporate them into the bloated public school system.......we all know how helpful it is

Back up there -- if someone disagrees with an idea they need to have a basis for that disagreement. Something with a bit more meat on its bones than "will never work". You can't just walk around spitting "will never work" and never have to say why it "will never work". That's what I mean by wanking.

How about, it's too expensive and we're broke?
That really doesn't matter much to this generation though

I would really like to see every massive new entitlement proposal be accompanied by at least 75% of its anticipated costs being paid for by eliminating other programs. You could probably find most of that in duplicated efforts.

 

[hortysir]

"Cut them lose with a half-assed background", Pogo?
Seems to have worked for 300 years.

Now, suddenly, we have to provide everything to someone in order for them to succeed? How insulting