obama just committed political suicide.

[daveman]

Once again, you and your source resort to fallacious reasoning

Fallacy: Questionable Cause


Unless they show specific proof that rising gun sales themselves and not other factors reduced crime this claim is unsupported.

Then perhaps you'd like to show data that support the claim of increased gun ownership increase gun crime.

Perhaps you'd like to back your claims up properly and definitively prove that higher sales equate with lower crimes when all other things are ruled out. You made the claim now prove it.

No, I'm willing to accept there may be no correlation there.

Now how about you back up the opposing charge, that increased gun ownership has caused an increase in gun crime?

 

[FA_Q2]

Once again, you and your source resort to fallacious reasoning

Fallacy: Questionable Cause


Unless they show specific proof that rising gun sales themselves and not other factors reduced crime this claim is unsupported.

Then perhaps you'd like to show data that support the claim of increased gun ownership increase gun crime.

Perhaps you'd like to back your claims up properly and definitively prove that higher sales equate with lower crimes when all other things are ruled out. You made the claim now prove it.

Actually, that has been done twice here already but those on the left seem to ignore the data.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Then perhaps you'd like to show data that support the claim of increased gun ownership increase gun crime.

Perhaps you'd like to back your claims up properly and definitively prove that higher sales equate with lower crimes when all other things are ruled out. You made the claim now prove it.

No, I'm willing to accept there may be no correlation there.

Now how about you back up the opposing charge, that increased gun ownership has caused an increase in gun crime?

I never made that claim so why ask me to back up a claim I never made? That doesn't make your position true by default either.

 

[Sallow]

So...you can't answer the question, either. Figures.

What question? That was a serious question?

It's fallacy.

Criminals are criminals because they don't obey the law.

The you admit greater gun restrictions serve only to disarm law-abiding citizens.

I didn't think you had it in you.

No..actually I didn't.

I think it's nuts that we are both the number 1 industrialized nation and number 1 (with a bullet) in gun ownership.

I'm glad I live in a civilized state with civilized gun laws.

 

[driveby]

Gun control makes sense. If President Obama has the balls to push gun control, more power to him. It is the right thing to do.

Yep, makes perfect sense, for criminals......

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Then perhaps you'd like to show data that support the claim of increased gun ownership increase gun crime.

Perhaps you'd like to back your claims up properly and definitively prove that higher sales equate with lower crimes when all other things are ruled out. You made the claim now prove it.

Actually, that has been done twice here already but those on the left seem to ignore the data.

Where#s the evidence that conclusively links greater gun sales with lower crime rates with others factors being ruled out as the cause?

 

[daveman]

Perhaps you'd like to back your claims up properly and definitively prove that higher sales equate with lower crimes when all other things are ruled out. You made the claim now prove it.

No, I'm willing to accept there may be no correlation there.

Now how about you back up the opposing charge, that increased gun ownership has caused an increase in gun crime?

I never made that claim so why ask me to back up a claim I never made? That doesn't make your position true by default either.

So...no one has been able to back up the claim that legal gun ownership = gun crime. Okay.

 

[daveman]

What question? That was a serious question?

It's fallacy.

Criminals are criminals because they don't obey the law.

The you admit greater gun restrictions serve only to disarm law-abiding citizens.

I didn't think you had it in you.

No..actually I didn't.

I think it's nuts that we are both the number 1 industrialized nation and number 1 (with a bullet) in gun ownership.

I'm glad I live in a civilized state with civilized gun laws.

So...you admit that gun laws do not deter criminals from obtaining guns, yet refuse to admit that gun laws disarm only law-abiding citizens.

Does that take a special effort of will?

 

[BlindBoo]

Nope the headlines should be. Right Wing Groups hope President Obama commits political suicide (somehow)!!!!!!

 

[FA_Q2]

Actually, it does. Why do you want to disarm law-abiding people?

And no one else can answer this question, so maybe you'd like to try:

How are you going to get criminals to obey the law?

Being a law abiding person doesn't preclude anyone from getting drunk or angry or depressed.

Open carry laws that allow you to take your shootin irons into bars are nuts.

Guns should be heavily regulated and used for home/business protection..exclusively.

Of course, forget the constitution and all the evidence that flies in the face if that inane concept.

Its sheer bullshat to say that more people owning guns will equal less crime. In Germany guns are strictly controlled and tey there isn't a lot of crime, maybe if we quit glorifying guns in America and teach people what they're about instead of arguing like derelicts over the 2nd Amendment things would be fine.

Then how do you address the fact that almost every time they relax controls we get less gun crime and the reverse happens each time gun laws are increased.

LoL!!


The reactionary Far Right....too funny.

Your the punchline of your joke, Marc.
Mainstream America likes their guns...period.

ahhh the mistake of believing that you are mainstream america and that you represent all of mainstream america....

people in the cities....are for gun control....there is a large population that hates or fears guns....ie. last night a good friend mentioned that she hates to stay at her house alone when the man is gone....she is not a gun owner or user....so she lives in ******* fear...when i told her that she needed to know how to use a weapon...she ask me if i had a gun at ready....i was like well duh....yes....a 22 loaded with hollow points...a varmit gun...and a shotgun....i prefer the 22 for obvious reasons....but she is terrified of guns and would like 'gun control'.. she sees gun control as removing guns from criminals....

so do not assume you understand or speak for mainstream america...many of them are sick of all the violence that involves guns...of the stupid people who allow their guns to fall into the hands of kids...you see a lot of irresponsible gun owners

need i mention the gun show letting the 8 yr fire the izu? that does not go down well with a majority of america

And here is the major ignorance of the gun control crowd. It has been said here already but it deserves more attention

GUN CONTROL ONLY KEEPS GUNS FROM LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WHERE CRIMINALS ARE STILL ABLE TO GET THE WEAPONS THEY WANT.

Besides that, there are MANY implements one can use for kill and MANY effective weapons in the form of explosives can be manufactured in the basement of an average American home. Gun control does NOTHING for against the criminals other than ensure easy targets. That is asinine and pointless. Until that can be addressed, gun control is pointless.

 

[Sallow]

No, I'm willing to accept there may be no correlation there.

Now how about you back up the opposing charge, that increased gun ownership has caused an increase in gun crime?

I never made that claim so why ask me to back up a claim I never made? That doesn't make your position true by default either.

So...no one has been able to back up the claim that legal gun ownership = gun crime. Okay.

Well that's kinda tough since the data's been screwed:

The reality is that even these and other basic questions cannot be fully answered, because not enough research has been done. And there is a reason for that. Scientists in the field and former officials with the government agency that used to finance the great bulk of this research say the influence of the National Rife Association has all but choked off money for such work.

“We’ve been stopped from answering the basic questions,” said Mark Rosenberg, former director of the National Center for Injury Control and Prevention, part of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which was for about a decade the leading source of financing for firearms research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26guns.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Sallow]

Actually, it does. Why do you want to disarm law-abiding people?

And no one else can answer this question, so maybe you'd like to try:

How are you going to get criminals to obey the law?

Being a law abiding person doesn't preclude anyone from getting drunk or angry or depressed.

Open carry laws that allow you to take your shootin irons into bars are nuts.

Guns should be heavily regulated and used for home/business protection..exclusively.

Of course, forget the constitution and all the evidence that flies in the face if that inane concept.

Then how do you address the fact that almost every time they relax controls we get less gun crime and the reverse happens each time gun laws are increased.

Your the punchline of your joke, Marc.
Mainstream America likes their guns...period.

ahhh the mistake of believing that you are mainstream america and that you represent all of mainstream america....

people in the cities....are for gun control....there is a large population that hates or fears guns....ie. last night a good friend mentioned that she hates to stay at her house alone when the man is gone....she is not a gun owner or user....so she lives in ******* fear...when i told her that she needed to know how to use a weapon...she ask me if i had a gun at ready....i was like well duh....yes....a 22 loaded with hollow points...a varmit gun...and a shotgun....i prefer the 22 for obvious reasons....but she is terrified of guns and would like 'gun control'.. she sees gun control as removing guns from criminals....

so do not assume you understand or speak for mainstream america...many of them are sick of all the violence that involves guns...of the stupid people who allow their guns to fall into the hands of kids...you see a lot of irresponsible gun owners

need i mention the gun show letting the 8 yr fire the izu? that does not go down well with a majority of america

And here is the major ignorance of the gun control crowd. It has been said here already but it deserves more attention

GUN CONTROL ONLY KEEPS GUNS FROM LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WHERE CRIMINALS ARE STILL ABLE TO GET THE WEAPONS THEY WANT.

Besides that, there are MANY implements one can use for kill and MANY effective weapons in the form of explosives can be manufactured in the basement of an average American home. Gun control does NOTHING for against the criminals other than ensure easy targets. That is asinine and pointless. Until that can be addressed, gun control is pointless.

Constitutional question?

What Constitutional question?

 

[xotoxi]

So...no one has been able to back up the claim that legal gun ownership = gun crime. Okay.

Also, no one can back up the claim that legal gun ownership DECREASES gun crim.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Remember when these Far Right Reactionaries were posting poll after poll every other day CBS, NYT, CNN, ABC, NBC...when Obama's numbers were low?

Now watch 'em.

On this issue anyone that shows a poll that shows more tha half of America supporting any gun control I find that poll misleading.

so you cherry pick.

hack

Who poll do we use?
Poll: Little support for gun control


Read more: Poll: Little support for gun control - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/01/17/rel1b.pdf

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Its sheer bullshat to say that more people owning guns will equal less crime. In Germany guns are strictly controlled and tey there isn't a lot of crime, maybe if we quit glorifying guns in America and teach people what they're about instead of arguing like derelicts over the 2nd Amendment things would be fine.

1. How many people are killed in Germany with a gun?

PolitiFact: U.S. has more gun deaths than other large countries - St. Petersburg Times

From your link

So, Japan and the United Kingdom were well within Lautenberg's stated threshold of 200 murders per year. Germany's total exceeded that threshold, but it still represented less than 4 percent of the number of killings in the United States in 2009.

If a country had more gun control one death by a gun is to much. Germany has to many deaths in it's country Germany should have 0 deaths by a gun. You failed.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

When it comes to guns, I believe in the Marceaux.com Principle:

Everyone can carry guns, if you kill someone though, you get murdered, you go to jail.

So you would even lock someone up who was defending them self?

You get murdered, you go to jail.
There is no gray zone on this one.

How can a person who has been murdered go to jail?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Actually, it does. Why do you want to disarm law-abiding people?

And no one else can answer this question, so maybe you'd like to try:

How are you going to get criminals to obey the law?

Being a law abiding person doesn't preclude anyone from getting drunk or angry or depressed.

Open carry laws that allow you to take your shootin irons into bars are nuts.

Guns should be heavily regulated and used for home/business protection..exclusively.

So when you leave your home or your place of business you enter in a safe zone and no one can rob you or shot you? How did the no guns work in Arizona?

 

[xotoxi]

So you would even lock someone up who was defending them self?

You get murdered, you go to jail.
There is no gray zone on this one.

How can a person who has been murdered go to jail?

You can only understand this if you understand the Teaching of Basil.

 

[jillian]

Gun control advocates operate strictly off emotion. And all gun control does is disarm law-abiding citizens.

and i think people who have a knee-jerk reaction to any type of safety regulations also operate strictly off of emotion.

i'd also point out that the president can't do anything on his own.

and i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the house isn't going to be proposing any type of gun legislation any time soon.

so i'm going to bet the NRA loons are using this for fundraising and to rev up the right.

just sayin'

 

[FA_Q2]

Being a law abiding person doesn't preclude anyone from getting drunk or angry or depressed.

Open carry laws that allow you to take your shootin irons into bars are nuts.

Guns should be heavily regulated and used for home/business protection..exclusively.

Of course, forget the constitution and all the evidence that flies in the face if that inane concept.

Then how do you address the fact that almost every time they relax controls we get less gun crime and the reverse happens each time gun laws are increased.

ahhh the mistake of believing that you are mainstream america and that you represent all of mainstream america....

people in the cities....are for gun control....there is a large population that hates or fears guns....ie. last night a good friend mentioned that she hates to stay at her house alone when the man is gone....she is not a gun owner or user....so she lives in ******* fear...when i told her that she needed to know how to use a weapon...she ask me if i had a gun at ready....i was like well duh....yes....a 22 loaded with hollow points...a varmit gun...and a shotgun....i prefer the 22 for obvious reasons....but she is terrified of guns and would like 'gun control'.. she sees gun control as removing guns from criminals....

so do not assume you understand or speak for mainstream america...many of them are sick of all the violence that involves guns...of the stupid people who allow their guns to fall into the hands of kids...you see a lot of irresponsible gun owners

need i mention the gun show letting the 8 yr fire the izu? that does not go down well with a majority of america

And here is the major ignorance of the gun control crowd. It has been said here already but it deserves more attention

GUN CONTROL ONLY KEEPS GUNS FROM LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WHERE CRIMINALS ARE STILL ABLE TO GET THE WEAPONS THEY WANT.

Besides that, there are MANY implements one can use for kill and MANY effective weapons in the form of explosives can be manufactured in the basement of an average American home. Gun control does NOTHING for against the criminals other than ensure easy targets. That is asinine and pointless. Until that can be addressed, gun control is pointless.

Constitutional question?

What Constitutional question?

You know but I guess I'll spell it out anyway.

T H E S E C O N D A M E N D M E N T