Obama DENIES bailout funds for GM and Chrysler

[DiveCon]

am i right in thinking that if they went bankrupt ( think gm might but i think chrysler will get the deal done with fiat) will that put the depression scenario back on the table?

who knows
no one can tell the future
its too bad Bush fell for it and gave them money last fall
he should have let them fail back then

 

[elvis]

what does it mean for GM workers? and those that work for their suppliers? are they all out of a job?

 

[wimpy77]

unfortunately some more plants will close and some part suppliers will close especially those that make parts for a specific type of model. i know the market is probably going to open down tomorrow and probably finish that way.

 

[elvis]

some GM plants? not all?

 

[wimpy77]

if they file for bankruptcy it will probably be chapter 11 which means that the court will restructure gm. the government from my understanding will still put money but not nearly as much as they would. so the court would decide what went and what didn't and how many plants would close. but from my reading they are basically wanting the bondholders to make more sacrifices and i believe they are doing this to make them do just that.

 

[elvis]

if they file for bankruptcy it will probably be chapter 11 which means that the court will restructure gm. the government from my understanding will still put money but not nearly as much as they would. so the court would decide what went and what didn't and how many plants would close. but from my reading they are basically wanting the bondholders to make more sacrifices and i believe they are doing this to make them do just that.

IT would certainly break the unions.

 

[Missourian]

what does it mean for GM workers? and those that work for their suppliers? are they all out of a job?

It will likely cause a depression in Mexico. Many of GM's suppliers are south of the border plus GM de Mexico is the largest employer down there.

From GM's site:

"General Motors de Mexico leads automotive companies in Mexico in sales. It began operations in this country in 1935 and today has efficient and modern manufacturing plants in Toluca, State of Mexico; Silao, Guanajuato; Ramos Arizpe, Coahuila; and in Mexico City.

GM's investment is substantial as Mexico's single largest private employer. GM Mexico assembles many models for the domestic sales and worldwide export. It markets the Chevrolet, Pontiac, Cadillac and Saab brands, and Fiat. "

Link - GM - Global Operations - Mexico

 

[DavidS]

i got a question i read that if indeed gm went into bankruptcy the government would back up people's warranties, but for people like me who just bought a new car (i bought a 2008 saturn) what would happen if they went bankrupt would i loose my car?

Did you get your loan through GMAC or a private bank?

I think GMAC which is a private bank now, would survive. So your loan would still be due to the bank and your warranty through the government.

However, I am under no false pretenses here - a government backed warranty sounds like a nightmare. And there's nothing you can do - if you just bought the Saturn you're upside down (owe more than the car is worth). If I were you, I wouldn't worry until you start hearing clinkaty clink noises.

 

[DavidS]

what does it mean for GM workers? and those that work for their suppliers? are they all out of a job?

It will likely cause a depression in Mexico. Many of GM's suppliers are south of the border plus GM de Mexico is the largest employer down there.

From GM's site:

"General Motors de Mexico leads automotive companies in Mexico in sales. It began operations in this country in 1935 and today has efficient and modern manufacturing plants in Toluca, State of Mexico; Silao, Guanajuato; Ramos Arizpe, Coahuila; and in Mexico City.

GM's investment is substantial as Mexico's single largest private employer. GM Mexico assembles many models for the domestic sales and worldwide export. It markets the Chevrolet, Pontiac, Cadillac and Saab brands, and Fiat. "

Link - GM - Global Operations - Mexico

Oy. Add fuel to the fire in Mexico. Not what they need. But unavoidable. Clinton should have never signed NAFTA.

 

[neurosport]

unfortunatelly Obama may be bluffing. they like to have a lot of DRAMA around these automakers. they ( government ) are basically trying to look busy as if they give a shit about America.

i am not getting excited just yet.

 

[editec]

We've (meaning our government and the monied interests, not the American people) been screwing American industry for decades.

Note that we're bailing out banks but hold American industries to a much higher standard?

9 trillion dollars for the banks and 740 billion for the rest of the nation combined?!

Guess we know who counts in this society, right?

Not the people who make sutff but the people who do nothiong but create and push debt around.

 

[neurosport]

We've (meaning our government and the monied interests, not the American people) been screwing American industry for decades.

Note that we're bailing out banks but hold American industries to a much higher standard?

9 trillion dollars for the banks and 740 billion for the rest of the nation combined?!

Guess we know who counts in this society, right?

Not the people who make sutff but the people who do nothiong but create and push debt around.

MONEY is a VIRUS.

it is a virus that uses humans as HOSTS in order to REPRODUCE.

humans are NOT at the top of the food chain - MONEY IS.

humans never kill money but money routinely kills humans.

 

[dilloduck]

We've (meaning our government and the monied interests, not the American people) been screwing American industry for decades.

Note that we're bailing out banks but hold American industries to a much higher standard?

9 trillion dollars for the banks and 740 billion for the rest of the nation combined?!

Guess we know who counts in this society, right?

Not the people who make sutff but the people who do nothiong but create and push debt around.

i have a theory in which MONEY ITSELF is the form of life that sits on top of the food chain and we are merely farm animals serving it.

That may have been true when money actually represented an honest value by which to exchange labor and products.

 

[midcan5]

It would be an interesting study in ideas to trace how Americans came to hate themselves. Automobiles were our life blood, they still are, they have brought great pleasure and complex negative consequences. My first Chevy, a 55 V8 with four barrel and three moved to the floor was my first love. Nah, that was Linda, but that is another story. Anyway, how did Americans come to hate what they made, to look down on those who make them, especially when it provided a wonderful middle class life? Gawd, I still love the backroad, windows open, and beauty passing by.....

As a nation we sure as hell have some twisted values, when some gloat over the failure of who we are.


PS we just bought another Buick. Now That Buick is JD Power Number One Brand in Quality.

http://gm-volt.com/2009/03/22/now-t...ity-is-it-time-for-an-electric-buick-electra/

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It would be an interesting study in ideas to trace how Americans came to hate themselves. Automobiles were our life blood, they still are, they have brought great pleasure and complex negative consequences. My first Chevy, a 55 V8 with four barrel and three moved to the floor was my first love. Nah, that was Linda, but that is another story. Anyway, how did Americans come to hate what they made, to look down on those who make them, especially when it provided a wonderful middle class life? Gawd, I still love the backroad, windows open, and beauty passing by.....

As a nation we sure as hell have some twisted values, when some gloat over the failure of who we are.

It's easy to paint those of us calling for an end to bailouts as hating America's working class or a certain industry, but the fact is that propping up a failed business is harmful to the entire economy and that's where our complaints come from. Nobody wants to see GM or Chrysler fail, but neither do we want to prolong this recession any longer than we need to.

 

[editec]

Kevin what you are calling a recession may not be just a recession.

I sincerely hope you're right but I don't see anything in the "fundamentals" to support your faith.

Now that does not mean I support the bailouts, simply that I am dubious this economic crises is as temporary as you think it is.

I think we're in for a decade of financial disaster.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kevin what you are calling a recession may not be just a recession.

I sincerely hope you're right but I don't see anything in the "fundamentals" to support your faith.

Now that does not mean I support the bailouts, simply that I am dubious this economic crises is as temporary as you think it is.

I think we're in for a decade of financial disaster.

I agree that we're in this for the long haul, but that's because of all the wrong things the government has done to try to get us out of it.

 

[neurosport]

It would be an interesting study in ideas to trace how Americans came to hate themselves. Automobiles were our life blood, they still are, they have brought great pleasure and complex negative consequences. My first Chevy, a 55 V8 with four barrel and three moved to the floor was my first love. Nah, that was Linda, but that is another story. Anyway, how did Americans come to hate what they made, to look down on those who make them, especially when it provided a wonderful middle class life? Gawd, I still love the backroad, windows open, and beauty passing by.....

As a nation we sure as hell have some twisted values, when some gloat over the failure of who we are.


PS we just bought another Buick. Now That Buick is JD Power Number One Brand in Quality.

Now That Buick is JD Power Number One Brand in Quality, is it Time for an Electric Buick Electra? | GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site

American cars are great if you don't care about style, performance, safety or resale value.

I just wish import cars were bigger inside. People in other countries are way too small.

They need to be introduced to Junk Food and Steroids. They have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[midcan5]

It's easy to paint those of us calling for an end to bailouts as hating America's working class or a certain industry, but the fact is that propping up a failed business is harmful to the entire economy and that's where our complaints come from. Nobody wants to see GM or Chrysler fail, but neither do we want to prolong this recession any longer than we need to.

That answer is disingenuous and your reply to Editec confirms that. You see bad guys because you have to see bad guys, next thing you'll be mentioning fanny and freddie. Sorry, I don't buy your concern, I think it is pure BS. And it is not 'easy' but obvious, you know those bad union workers....


"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It's easy to paint those of us calling for an end to bailouts as hating America's working class or a certain industry, but the fact is that propping up a failed business is harmful to the entire economy and that's where our complaints come from. Nobody wants to see GM or Chrysler fail, but neither do we want to prolong this recession any longer than we need to.

That answer is disingenuous and your reply to Editec confirms that. You see bad guys because you have to see bad guys, next thing you'll be mentioning fanny and freddie. Sorry, I don't buy your concern, I think it is pure BS. And it is not 'easy' but obvious, you know those bad union workers....


"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman

The only bad buys I see are in the government and the Federal Reserve, everyone else is just a victim of their policies. Call it disingenuous if you want, but keeping our economy depressed in a desperate bid to save failed businesses isn't a viable option in my opinion.