WillowTree
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2008
- 84,532
- 16,102
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Obama administration releases secret Bush memos
- Thread starter JimH52
- Start date
Obviously, given the extraordinary circumstances of that time, and the Bush Administrations extraordinary responses, many of which were done in secret -- even to Congress! -- an investigation of those response is needed.
However, given those extrordinary circumstances, as we uncover additional information in order to evaluate the legality of the steps taken, we need to remember just exactly how extrordinary those times were.
What does the above really mean?
Unless the Bush Amdinistration was CLEARLY violating the Constitution and KNEW IT, and if they tooks steps to obfuscate what they KNEW TO BE CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS OF THE POTUS's constiutional authority, even I would be inclined to go lightly on the players involved.
However, if it can shown that the Bush Admin players were KNOWING violating the Constitution, then they should be called to account for their actions and their punishment should be swift and fair regardless of WHOM is found to be responsible for those violations.
IN other words, we need to go as far up the chain of command as we need to go to punish those who are discovered were involved in any criminal behavior, or any cover-up of criminal behavior.
Failure to diligently invesigate, and failure to punish if criminal behavior is doscovered would insure that future presidents and their administration would do likewise.
Now I KNOW that some of you think that Bush should be given a pass.
But if we give Bush a pass, assuming criminality is discovered, then we WILL BE GRANTING all future POTUSs the same right to conduct activities clearly defined as unconstiutional.
No man can be above the law in a land governed by laws.
If the law is wrong, CHANGE it.
If the law is right, INDICT.
However, given those extrordinary circumstances, as we uncover additional information in order to evaluate the legality of the steps taken, we need to remember just exactly how extrordinary those times were.
What does the above really mean?
Unless the Bush Amdinistration was CLEARLY violating the Constitution and KNEW IT, and if they tooks steps to obfuscate what they KNEW TO BE CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS OF THE POTUS's constiutional authority, even I would be inclined to go lightly on the players involved.
However, if it can shown that the Bush Admin players were KNOWING violating the Constitution, then they should be called to account for their actions and their punishment should be swift and fair regardless of WHOM is found to be responsible for those violations.
IN other words, we need to go as far up the chain of command as we need to go to punish those who are discovered were involved in any criminal behavior, or any cover-up of criminal behavior.
Failure to diligently invesigate, and failure to punish if criminal behavior is doscovered would insure that future presidents and their administration would do likewise.
Now I KNOW that some of you think that Bush should be given a pass.
But if we give Bush a pass, assuming criminality is discovered, then we WILL BE GRANTING all future POTUSs the same right to conduct activities clearly defined as unconstiutional.
No man can be above the law in a land governed by laws.
If the law is wrong, CHANGE it.
If the law is right, INDICT.
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- Thread starter
- #23
How would Obama gotten access to these secret documents as a Senator? Bush stone walled every attempt at tranparency.
- Thread starter
- #24
Wow! I only have to read a few lines to figure out this Yoo guy was a Bush pawn. As for realeasing these documents now? I am not sure what this will immediately accomplish, other than give chat boards lots of material. I don't think this is how one should begin an investigation, if the administration feels such an investigation is warranted.
michiganFats
Silver Member
- Banned
- #25
I saw two issues raised in the OP article. Wiretapping and torture.
Wiretapping. For all of his talk against it, Obama voted for the current FISA set-up.
Torture. Obama's policy? Rendition.
I find much of what is said to be in these memos repugnant, however spitballing ideas and breaking the law are two different things. IMO Obama is using these memos to embarass Bush. I'd like to see the secret memos of every President who has held office over the last 80 years, but that will never happen because it serves no partisan purpose.
Wiretapping. For all of his talk against it, Obama voted for the current FISA set-up.
Torture. Obama's policy? Rendition.
I find much of what is said to be in these memos repugnant, however spitballing ideas and breaking the law are two different things. IMO Obama is using these memos to embarass Bush. I'd like to see the secret memos of every President who has held office over the last 80 years, but that will never happen because it serves no partisan purpose.
I love how Bush plays the innocent doofis on breaking the law. The way I heard it this morning, Bush is suggesting that, "it was a difficult time and we had to make difficult decisions in extreme times, blabla.
The fact is, you broke the law George, AND, you made the WRONG decision to torture.
So this is the closest we will ever get to an admission of guilt.
But knowing about the Aschcroft conversations, we know that Bush/Chaney/Rumsfeld knew they were breaking the law, and lied.
Republicans will justify why they broke the law and why they lied. And that's fine. Just admit they lied and broke the law.
The fact is, you broke the law George, AND, you made the WRONG decision to torture.
So this is the closest we will ever get to an admission of guilt.
But knowing about the Aschcroft conversations, we know that Bush/Chaney/Rumsfeld knew they were breaking the law, and lied.
Republicans will justify why they broke the law and why they lied. And that's fine. Just admit they lied and broke the law.
Think about the Privates at Abu Grabe that were thrown in jail and dishonorably discharged for doing what Rumsfeld/Chaney told them to do.
Now that we know the facts, why isn't Rummy gonna serve time?
Because he is above the law.
Now that we know the facts, why isn't Rummy gonna serve time?
Because he is above the law.
Who is that?
OMG, did you hear? Hillary is going around meeting with people from other countries, WITHOUT PRECONDITIONS!!!!!
You and Willow are perfect together. I'd love a manajatwa with you two.
PS. Didn't the rest of the world HATE US when Bush was running the show?
All of the sudden I feel a lot safer.
PS. What is Bush pre planning an attack on civilians inside the USA? And why does he want to take habius and due process away? Boy did he abuse that. Jose Padilla.
No, you are dangerous to America.
Hey, I just thought of something. The rest of the world doesn't hate America! The rest of the world hates right wing America! I'll put a new thread up on this. But seriously, the rest of the world hates the right wing, much like the left in America does.
We don't want to blow you up, but we sure do wish you would stop fucking our lives up.
And when we said that maybe America did something to deserve 9-11, it wasn't us. It was corporate America forcing its capitalism on the rest of the world.
So we go around fighting all these wars and making all these enemies for the right wing?
This is a new thougth I came up with on my own. I love it that i remembered!!!!
- Thread starter
- #32
How can Bush and Obama have a cordial existance after this? I expect GW is pretty pissed.
The more documents that people read, the more crdibility that Bush is going to lose. The question still needs to be asked though, "What does the release accomplish?" Most of us have known for some time that Bush was an idiot.
The more documents that people read, the more crdibility that Bush is going to lose. The question still needs to be asked though, "What does the release accomplish?" Most of us have known for some time that Bush was an idiot.
Hardly....
The world issued a great sigh of relief when the village idiot left office.
rayboyusmc
Senior Member
''
They aren't secret except to protect the people who wrote them.
I thought the right was for limited government.
rayboyusmc
Senior Member
P.S. He didn't have access to them as a senator.
Bunch of wining losers.
Bunch of wining losers.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
No, he did not. If fact, had FDR acted as George did, we would have attacked Brazil after Pearl Harbor. And the East Coast would be speaking German, the West Coast Japanese.
Bush was the most incompetant President in our history.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
My, my, head for the storm cellar, put on the tin foil hats.
Laugh at us now? What were they doing when ol' idiot child was running things. In case you did not notice, in spite of the "dead or alive" statement, Bin Laden is still alive and free. Way to go, George.
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