Ny man arrested for corralling kids who ransacked his house

[strollingbones]

i still cant believe the damage done by these kids....i just dont get this..the disregard for others property...the parents....the parents are more appalling than the kids...and it will all fall down to the side of these so called parents...they will sue and win....or the insurance will settle...it will be an interesting story to follow....

 

[PratchettFan]

no worries...i will get over it....


i had a problem where a man was on my property and refused to id himself....to make a long story short...when the police arrived...the policeman told me i could have shot him...simple as that...he ask why i didnt... the reason? i had left the house in a fit of anger in my housecoat without a gun

I think the policeman gave you some very bad advice. Personally, unless I am going somewhere it is not allowed I am typically armed whenever I go outside my house. So far, I have never needed it but it makes me feel better carrying it. Still, I understand that if I do pull my weapon I had better have a very good reason for doing so. Simply because someone won't get off my land is not a good enough reason. If the man comes at me in a threatening way, he is dead. I'm too old to even consider a fair fight. But just refusing to leave means I am calling the police and let them deal with it.

Despite what the cop told you, he has no control over it. If there is a dead body then the machine starts to move and it will eat you as a matter of course. The cop who shows up does not control that unless he helps you hide the body.

i live in a small rural area...i am an older (middle age if i plan to live to 120) woman, i have no police record nor any troubles with the law...he gave me the advice he would give any woman alone at home...why take a chance? some stranger is on my property refusing to id himself? all i ask for was id...all i got was slamming of car trunk and a smart ass reply...o i assure you ..he complained to the police about my blocking the road etc..and making him hand over his id and then telling him he could get his id back from the police...at that point...police looked at me and ask...ms. bones would you like to have this man arrested for trespassing?

i live in an area where you just dont screw around with people...simple as that...they call it the frontier or mountain mentality

I get that, but that really doesn't change things. The local cop comes in and there is a body. Now the reports go out. The case is taken away from the cop and it goes to homicide detectives. It then is reported to the district attorney. Within a few hours, the case is no longer being handled in a small rural area, it is being handled by people hq'd in wherever the government (probably County for you) is located. But it is all one big machine.

The Castle Doctrine you fall under covers people who are making forcible entry into your home, car or business. If that is happening, then they are presumed to be a threat and you can take lethal steps. Outside of those areas, you need to have cause to take lethal steps. You need to be able to show that you were actually in danger or at least had a reason to think your were. Being blown off when you asked for ID doesn't qualify because if you were actually afraid for your life, why did you go up to the guy and ask for ID in the first place?

I've only got what you have told me here, but based upon that I think if you had shot the guy you would have found yourself in some serious legal troubles. You may well have gotten off, but not before spending a lot of money on attorneys. So I think the cop gave you bad advice. My advice would have been to call the cops and never approach the man at all. Some may call that wimpy, but why put yourself in a position where may have to defend yourself? After all, there is no guarantee you will be successful.

 

[RKMBrown]

Call the police and seek restitution from the parents. What he shouldn't have done is threaten children with a hammer.

How do you detain and identify four kids with hammers without threatening them?

Since you don't seem to have read it.

The kids had the hammers, they broke into the father in law house of this guy named Daniels. The kids evidently did about 40-50k worth of damage. They broke windows, walls, cabinets, counters, sinks, everything, threw paint around, wrote curse words, completely trashed the insides of a nice house. According to Daniels the kids said it was in retaliation for someone telling the kids to get off the property earlier in the day. Allegedly the kids mom told the kids to trash the place in retaliation. When caught, the kids tried to run and Daniels corralled them into the closet.

Then two days later Daniels gets arrested for threatening the vandals? And you are good with that? The parent of two of the kids that wants the police to throw the book at Daniels is a real POS.

Sick how far people will go to support criminals destroying this country.

He was arrested for threatening children with a deadly weapon. Apparently you are ok with that. Interesting.

Were you there? Show me your proof that Daniels threatened the children. Do you know what Alleged means?

 

[PratchettFan]

How do you detain and identify four kids with hammers without threatening them?

Since you don't seem to have read it.

The kids had the hammers, they broke into the father in law house of this guy named Daniels. The kids evidently did about 40-50k worth of damage. They broke windows, walls, cabinets, counters, sinks, everything, threw paint around, wrote curse words, completely trashed the insides of a nice house. According to Daniels the kids said it was in retaliation for someone telling the kids to get off the property earlier in the day. Allegedly the kids mom told the kids to trash the place in retaliation. When caught, the kids tried to run and Daniels corralled them into the closet.

Then two days later Daniels gets arrested for threatening the vandals? And you are good with that? The parent of two of the kids that wants the police to throw the book at Daniels is a real POS.

Sick how far people will go to support criminals destroying this country.

He was arrested for threatening children with a deadly weapon. Apparently you are ok with that. Interesting.

Were you there? Show me your proof that Daniels threatened the children. Do you know what Alleged means?

Yes. I know what alleged means. Do you know what arrested means? Were you there? Do you know the parent wants the police to throw the book at him? Do you know they are a "POS"? How much personal contact have you had with them to draw that conclusion?

Don't toss standards at me you don't want to live up to yourself.

 

[RKMBrown]

He was arrested for threatening children with a deadly weapon. Apparently you are ok with that. Interesting.

Were you there? Show me your proof that Daniels threatened the children. Do you know what Alleged means?

Yes. I know what alleged means. Do you know what arrested means? Were you there? Do you know the parent wants the police to throw the book at him? Do you know they are a "POS"? How much personal contact have you had with them to draw that conclusion?

Don't toss standards at me you don't want to live up to yourself.

I've seen the proof the parent is a POS. Where's your proof that the guy who stopped the kids is a raving lunatic that threatened to kill four sweet little innocent children, scarring them for life?

 

[PratchettFan]

Were you there? Show me your proof that Daniels threatened the children. Do you know what Alleged means?

Yes. I know what alleged means. Do you know what arrested means? Were you there? Do you know the parent wants the police to throw the book at him? Do you know they are a "POS"? How much personal contact have you had with them to draw that conclusion?

Don't toss standards at me you don't want to live up to yourself.

I've seen the proof the parent is a POS. Where's your proof that the guy who stopped the kids is a raving lunatic that threatened to kill four sweet little innocent children, scarring them for life?

I get you.

 

[RKMBrown]

Yes. I know what alleged means. Do you know what arrested means? Were you there? Do you know the parent wants the police to throw the book at him? Do you know they are a "POS"? How much personal contact have you had with them to draw that conclusion?

Don't toss standards at me you don't want to live up to yourself.

I've seen the proof the parent is a POS. Where's your proof that the guy who stopped the kids is a raving lunatic that threatened to kill four sweet little innocent children, scarring them for life?

I get you.

Fair enough. Sorry for the do you know what "" means tactic. I agree that an adult does not need to threaten kids with a hammer, I just doubt very seriously that he did. My gut says the kids that would be capable of destroying a home would also be capable of lying.

 

[PratchettFan]

I've seen the proof the parent is a POS. Where's your proof that the guy who stopped the kids is a raving lunatic that threatened to kill four sweet little innocent children, scarring them for life?

I get you.

Fair enough. Sorry for the do you know what "" means tactic. I agree that an adult does not need to threaten kids with a hammer, I just doubt very seriously that he did. My gut says the kids that would be capable of destroying a home would also be capable of lying.

No problem. It would not surprise me at all if they were. I think there is a lot of back story here we are not getting. I don't blame the guy for what he did and I think the kids belong in juvie and the parents possibly in jail. I was just pointing out that he made a mistake and opened himself up. The reality is that there are just some things you can't do when you are dealing with young children no matter what the situation.

 

[JoeBlam]

Uh huh. Another thing everybody knows, is it?

Yep. My background is no doubt different than yours....I grew up on the streets of Detroit and was taught by the older italian guys how things work. Often times, what goes unsaid leaves the clearest message. So when I got you against a wall with a hammer in my hand, I don't have to raise it and shake it at ya....that's menacing, assault without battery. But if I look at you for a lingering moment, then slowly glance down at the hammer at my side, then slowly return my gaze to you, eyes narrowed and curling my lip a little, EVERYBODY knows what's coming if they ain't doing what I told them to do....even YOU, Perry.....even you.

Well.... older italian guys from Detroit. Who can argue with that kind of expertise.

They knew the law better than you do, Mr. Mason...you can't earn if you're in the jailhouse. Oh and I see you're now an expert on the Castle Doctrine I introduced you to. I know your schtick is important to you so I'll stop laughing at you (for awhile).

 

[RKMBrown]

I get you.

Fair enough. Sorry for the do you know what "" means tactic. I agree that an adult does not need to threaten kids with a hammer, I just doubt very seriously that he did. My gut says the kids that would be capable of destroying a home would also be capable of lying.

No problem. It would not surprise me at all if they were. I think there is a lot of back story here we are not getting. I don't blame the guy for what he did and I think the kids belong in juvie and the parents possibly in jail. I was just pointing out that he made a mistake and opened himself up. The reality is that there are just some things you can't do when you are dealing with young children no matter what the situation.

Some times you have to do things when dealing with miscreants that would be seen as distasteful by others who were not there during the incident. Sometimes people get upset based on assumptions of guilt and / or projections of past punishments that they received. Folks might see the locking in the closet thing as a OMG why would he do that. Note, it did not say small dark closet. It said closet. My wife's closet is bigger than some bedrooms. Some folks might see a guy holding a hammer as threatening the kids with the hammer. Others might see the guy holding the hammer and putting them in the closet as protecting the kids from doing more harm with these hammers and holding them for the police that were on the way. The kids probably did see a guy with a hammer threatening them and forcing them into a closet. It's a matter of perspective.

 

[PratchettFan]

Fair enough. Sorry for the do you know what "" means tactic. I agree that an adult does not need to threaten kids with a hammer, I just doubt very seriously that he did. My gut says the kids that would be capable of destroying a home would also be capable of lying.

No problem. It would not surprise me at all if they were. I think there is a lot of back story here we are not getting. I don't blame the guy for what he did and I think the kids belong in juvie and the parents possibly in jail. I was just pointing out that he made a mistake and opened himself up. The reality is that there are just some things you can't do when you are dealing with young children no matter what the situation.

Some times you have to do things when dealing with miscreants that would be seen as distasteful by others who were not there during the incident. Sometimes people get upset based on assumptions of guilt and / or projections of past punishments that they received. Folks might see the locking in the closet thing as a OMG why would he do that. Note, it did not say small dark closet. It said closet. My wife's closet is bigger than some bedrooms. Some folks might see a guy holding a hammer as threatening the kids with the hammer. Others might see the guy holding the hammer and putting them in the closet as protecting the kids from doing more harm with these hammers and holding them for the police that were on the way. The kids probably did see a guy with a hammer threatening them and forcing them into a closet. It's a matter of perspective.

And yet here he is charged with child endangerment. No matter what the intent, he is faced with defending himself against a serious charge and that is going to cost him a lot. Whether you and I think he was justified in what he did, it is going to cost him. If he is found innocent, it is going to cost him. Guilty or innocent, defending yourself is not free. By doing what he did, he put himself in jeopardy.

The original question in this thread was what he should have done differently. I am saying he should not have put them in the closet. The minute he did that, he left himself open for exactly what happened. It was a mistake.

 

[RKMBrown]

No problem. It would not surprise me at all if they were. I think there is a lot of back story here we are not getting. I don't blame the guy for what he did and I think the kids belong in juvie and the parents possibly in jail. I was just pointing out that he made a mistake and opened himself up. The reality is that there are just some things you can't do when you are dealing with young children no matter what the situation.

Some times you have to do things when dealing with miscreants that would be seen as distasteful by others who were not there during the incident. Sometimes people get upset based on assumptions of guilt and / or projections of past punishments that they received. Folks might see the locking in the closet thing as a OMG why would he do that. Note, it did not say small dark closet. It said closet. My wife's closet is bigger than some bedrooms. Some folks might see a guy holding a hammer as threatening the kids with the hammer. Others might see the guy holding the hammer and putting them in the closet as protecting the kids from doing more harm with these hammers and holding them for the police that were on the way. The kids probably did see a guy with a hammer threatening them and forcing them into a closet. It's a matter of perspective.

And yet here he is charged with child endangerment. No matter what the intent, he is faced with defending himself against a serious charge and that is going to cost him a lot. Whether you and I think he was justified in what he did, it is going to cost him. If he is found innocent, it is going to cost him. Guilty or innocent, defending yourself is not free. By doing what he did, he put himself in jeopardy.

The original question in this thread was what he should have done differently. I am saying he should not have put them in the closet. The minute he did that, he left himself open for exactly what happened. It was a mistake.

You make the assumption that the guy had a better choice. The kids could have accused him of attacking them either way. The kids could have said he put them in the closet and they escaped. The kids could have said he forced them to ransack the house. The kids could have said they saw him destroy the house. The number of lies criminals can come up with to shed blame are endless. Hell the kids might have gotten shot by another neighbor or the cops had they run out, or maybe got run over by a car in the street, or killed each other with the hammers or some other weapons if they were on PCP.

You were not there, neither was I. He's not a criminal, they are.