Not the view you were looking for: A conservative woman's view on abortion

[Allenmichael]

I can't imagine how any mother can justify killing her child!


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[C_Clayton_Jones]

A brain dead person can be kept artificially alive by a machine that keeps the heart pumping. Is it "alive"?

Really? Nice. Not even the best kicker in the NFL can kick a football through those goalposts.

It's not as big a stretch as you think.

What the end of life? What defines the beginning of life?

*sigh* It would be nice if leftists had felt compelled to attend JUST ONE high-school biology class, instead of yoinking off behind the boys' gym.

The Definition of Life

1) Chemical uniqueness. Living systems demonstrate a unique and
complex molecular organization.
2) Complexity and hierarchical organization. Living systems
demonstrate a unique and complex hierarchical organization.
3) Reproduction. Living systems can reproduce themselves.
4) Possession of a genetic program. A genetic program provides fidelity
of inheritance.
5) Metabolism. Living organisms maintain themselves by obtaining
nutrients from their environments.
6) Development. All organisms pass through a characteristic life cycle.
7) Environmental reaction. All animals interact with their environment.

By the way, for the record, all living organisms interact with their environment, not just animals.

A fetus fails to meet the standard you set for yourself. They fail all of the standards you set except #4. Absent the nurturing environment of the womb, they cannot live. The are life in development, but they don't obtain nutrition from their environment, they obtain it from their host.

A fetus is a possibility of life. What kind of life they will have, if any, is dependent on their host and it is her decision and hers alone whether they will have life at all.

thank you for admitting abortion is murder.

No one has 'admitted' any such thing.

Again, as a fact of law abortion is not 'murder,' to argue otherwise is ignorant idiocy and demagoguery.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I can't imagine how any mother can justify killing her child!


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Fortunately citizens aren't require to 'justify' the exercising of a fundamental right as a 'prerequisite' to indeed do so.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really? Nice. Not even the best kicker in the NFL can kick a football through those goalposts.

It's not as big a stretch as you think.

What the end of life? What defines the beginning of life?

*sigh* It would be nice if leftists had felt compelled to attend JUST ONE high-school biology class, instead of yoinking off behind the boys' gym.

The Definition of Life

1) Chemical uniqueness. Living systems demonstrate a unique and
complex molecular organization.
2) Complexity and hierarchical organization. Living systems
demonstrate a unique and complex hierarchical organization.
3) Reproduction. Living systems can reproduce themselves.
4) Possession of a genetic program. A genetic program provides fidelity
of inheritance.
5) Metabolism. Living organisms maintain themselves by obtaining
nutrients from their environments.
6) Development. All organisms pass through a characteristic life cycle.
7) Environmental reaction. All animals interact with their environment.

By the way, for the record, all living organisms interact with their environment, not just animals.

A fetus fails to meet the standard you set for yourself. They fail all of the standards you set except #4. Absent the nurturing environment of the womb, they cannot live. The are life in development, but they don't obtain nutrition from their environment, they obtain it from their host.

A fetus is a possibility of life. What kind of life they will have, if any, is dependent on their host and it is her decision and hers alone whether they will have life at all.

thank you for admitting abortion is murder.

No one has 'admitted' any such thing.

Again, as a fact of law abortion is not 'murder,' to argue otherwise is ignorant idiocy and demagoguery.

It's not murder by more than just the law. It's not murder by the simple fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans do not believe that it should be punished as murder,

including, tellingly, an overwhelming majority of those who CALL it murder.

 

[Coyote]

Over and over I keep seeing "a woman must restrain herself" and "a woman must take responsibility".

Never anything about the man.

Men have enjoyed milliniums of sex without responsibility in a culture that largely supported it by putting the shame on women. The pill changed all that for women, putting reliable birth control in her hands and giving her, for the first time, the same freedoms enjoyed by men. But the culture hasn't changed.

Making birth control affordable, if not free, to everyone has been fought every step of the way by people who, ultimately don't approve of "sluts' having sex outside of marriage. The war on Planned Parenthood Clinic overlooks the fact that the biggest portion of their work is in contraception, education, and sexually transmitted disease prevention.

You want to to see fewer abortions? Make contraception easily and freely available and education mandatory. The choice of what to do with a pregnancy is a woman's - not some outside body of people who don't know her, never met her, but assume she's a slut who has abortions like eating candy.

Pregnancy carries risks - higher risks than abortion even in this country. The pregnant woman assumes all the risks. She is the one who may end up dropping out of school, losing her job, losing her health or losing her life. She is the one people condemn. At the very most, the only responsibility a man MAY be forced into is child support. That is not to say all men are baby daddies any more than all women are sluts. It's just the fact of life - a man can walk away and disappear, but a woman has to contend with the fact she is pregnant and her future is going to be drastically changed forever.

It's possible to implant a pregnancy in a man (it's been done). It's risky, of course. But it's interesting because it shifts the debate and asks the question: how would you feel if you were forced to carry a pregnancy you did not want? If someone else took control of your choices concerning your body?

 

[rdean]

I know, I know, The View is nothing more than a liberal echo chamber, but Carly Fiorina chose to jump into the lions den despite that fact. In a feature segment involving Fiorina, Whoopi Goldberg during the segment decided to ambush the former Hewlett-Packard CEO with a rather pointed question on the issue of abortion, while also questioning her Christian values..

“Are you going to run as a person who’s going to govern for everyone, or are you running on your Christian beliefs?” Goldberg asked. “Because you said some wonderful things and it made me beg the question ... if you feel that women should have the choices ... why do you think choice is not a good thing?”

Fiorina promptly flattened Goldberg with an equally pointed and scientific answer.

“Well, look abortion is obviously a very delicate subject, she replied. "I happen to believe that science is proving us right. The DNA in a zygote is the same as the DNA the day you die, we do have common ground on this issue now.”

“The majority of women, the majority of young people, the majority of Americans now think that late-term abortion for any reason at all is a problem,” Fiorina continued. “So what I say is, let’s go find that common ground.”

I would be more interested in a conservative woman's view on helping the born.

44 - Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms
Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms

But I already have a pretty good idea.

 

[Coyote]

When does life begin? No one agrees here.

Medical Controversy When Does Life Begin Brain Blogger

This is what I agree with:

Week 25

A sizable contingent would assert that life begins at 25 weeks. The rationale for this starting point is based on our definition of death. The definition of death is not disputed, and is considered the time when electroencephalography (EEG) activity ceases. EEG measures brain activity and must demonstrate regular wave patterns to be considered valid. Therefore, by this rule the onset of life would be the time when fetal brain activity begins to exhibit regular wave patterns, which occurs fairly consistently around week 25. Previous to that time, the EEG only shows small bursts of activity without sustained firing of neurons.

 

[Spare_change]

Funny how someone like Hobby Lobby had to sue the US Government for that right. But then again, we're talking choice here, are we not?

You mean Hobby Lobby was going to have a baby and someone was going to force it to have an abortion?

Oh. Wait. Hobby Lobby doesn't have a uterus. Hobby Lobby isn't even a person. Hobby Lobby just wanted to deny their $9.00 an hour cashiers the right to use the birth control of their choice because they hate abortion so much.

Of course, Hobby Lobby doesn't hate abortion so much to the point where they stop doing business with China, which forces women to have abortions if they've exceeded their one-child limit.

Must you always misrepresent the facts????

Contrary to your mischaracterization, Hobby Lobby didn't want to "deny their $9.00 an hour cashiers the right to use the birth control of their choice".

They simply didn't want to have to pay for abortafacient drugs. Their "$9 an hour cashiers" can use whatever birth control method they choose, as long as Hobby Lobby doesn't have to pay for a certain category of them.

 

[Spare_change]

you are placing different values on human life and attempting to justify it.

Thing is, in one instance you don't consider it to BE human life. Nice try.

That's because it isn't human life, it is the potential for human life. There is no proof or guarantee that the fetus will ever be a human life because 1/3 of all fetuses are not even viable and spontaneously abort.

That's why women don't generally tell people they are pregnant until after the first trimester has passed.

So Mrs. Mao, if someone punches a pregnant woman intentionally and kills the fetus, is it murder?

In 38 states .... and climbing.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Funny, Coyote, it doesn't begin at 25 weeks. We all equate a heartbeat with the presence of life, that happens in the first 3-5 weeks.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Funny, Coyote, it doesn't begin at 25 weeks. We all equate a heartbeat with the presence of life, that happens in the first 3-5 weeks.

Tell us what the law should be. On abortion.

 

[JoeB131]

Must you always misrepresent the facts????

Contrary to your mischaracterization, Hobby Lobby didn't want to "deny their $9.00 an hour cashiers the right to use the birth control of their choice".

They simply didn't want to have to pay for abortafacient drugs. Their "$9 an hour cashiers" can use whatever birth control method they choose, as long as Hobby Lobby doesn't have to pay for a certain category of them.

You're making $9.00 an hour, you really don't have the money to chuck out for an IUD. (which isn't a drug, and one of the things Hobby Lobby objected to.)

the point is, Hobby Lobby isn't a doctor. Hobby Lobby shouldn't be telling a woman and her doctor what the best form of treatment is.

The idea that your medical treatment can be denied because your employer has weird religious beliefs and a lack of understanding of science is just crazy.

And if Hobby Lobby was so upset about abortion, maybe they should stop buying 93% of their product from China, a country that COMPELS women to have abortions.

 

[rdean]

Republicans never answer why they care so much for the fetus and not the born.

 

[kaz]

you are placing different values on human life and attempting to justify it.

Thing is, in one instance you don't consider it to BE human life. Nice try.

That's because it isn't human life, it is the potential for human life. There is no proof or guarantee that the fetus will ever be a human life because 1/3 of all fetuses are not even viable and spontaneously abort.

That's why women don't generally tell people they are pregnant until after the first trimester has passed.

So Mrs. Mao, if someone punches a pregnant woman intentionally and kills the fetus, is it murder?

In 38 states .... and climbing.

You missed the point of the question

 

[Dragonlady]

Funny, Coyote, it doesn't begin at 25 weeks. We all equate a heartbeat with the presence of life, that happens in the first 3-5 weeks.

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

 

[kaz]

Funny, Coyote, it doesn't begin at 25 weeks. We all equate a heartbeat with the presence of life, that happens in the first 3-5 weeks.

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

So what about answering my question. Can you be charged with murder then for killing a fetus? Stop running away and address the question. If it's not a life, how can anyone killing it be murder?

 

[mdk]

Of course zygotes have DNA. Who the hell said they didn't?

You did. The specific phrase was "a clump of cells" if I recall.

Are you ever going to man up and admit you were incorrect in this statement? Can't bring yourself to do it can ya? Too funny.

 

[Seawytch]

Funny, Coyote, it doesn't begin at 25 weeks. We all equate a heartbeat with the presence of life, that happens in the first 3-5 weeks.

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

So what about answering my question. Can you be charged with murder then for killing a fetus? Stop running away and address the question. If it's not a life, how can anyone killing it be murder?

Courts are finding a way to thread the needle.

Courts Split Abortion and Fetus Murder

 

[kaz]

Funny, Coyote, it doesn't begin at 25 weeks. We all equate a heartbeat with the presence of life, that happens in the first 3-5 weeks.

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

So what about answering my question. Can you be charged with murder then for killing a fetus? Stop running away and address the question. If it's not a life, how can anyone killing it be murder?

Courts are finding a way to thread the needle.

Courts Split Abortion and Fetus Murder

That isn't the point of the question. Dragonlady apparently gets it since she keeps running away and hiding from it.

Her argument is that a baby isn't a human, it's a potential human. If that's the case, no one else could be charged with murder either.

Even when liberals are right, it's always for the wrong reason. Government has no legitimate power to force a woman to carry a baby to term, that is why abortion should be legal. Not because the fetus isn't a human, which isn't true.

Liberals group think a position then justify it, which is why every standard you claim to hold you contradict on other issues

 

[Idadunno]

So fetuses have human DNA. And that supports the right-to-control-others-lives arguments how?

no, a baby is a human being and shouldn't be murdered.....and when the baby is born the woman can give up the baby and live her life...without killing another human being.......

I'm going to spin this---men masturbate. This is a needless waste of life-giving sperm--it's bloody damn murder!. Those spermies are potential babies, and they all have a man's DNA. I think we should ban male masturbating. If you masturbate, you will go to jail for mass murder. A woman cannot get pregnant without sperm and sperm must come from a donor. Therefore, to hold only one party libel is discrimination. If men can masturbate, women can choose abortion. Oh, sperm does not have a heartbeat... or do they? Hmm... If it can swim, can it not also feel? It is physically active! Save the babies!! Stop masturbating!!