Not the view you were looking for: A conservative woman's view on abortion

[JoeB131]

Wow...you do get it. The baby is a human being and humans have rights, including the right to not be murdered. Killing a baby is murder. Sadly, too many people hide it behind words like "fetus."

Maybe if we armed fetuses, they could take out the abortion doctors...

 

[NYcarbineer]

I won't stop with the "word parsings" until you (or rather TK) stops assuming I'm saying things I haven't said simply because I'm pro-choice and therefor must be saying it.

I believe that only the woman has the right to make decisions regarding her own body. That right is primary. Secondary comes the right of her fetus. I don't support elective abortions in the last trimester of pregnancy except under certain conditions: the mother's health or life is indangered or severe fetal deformaties. No one argues that it is not a "human being". But whether it is a person to be granted all rights is another argument entirely.

If you believe the woman has the right to make decisions for her own body...why limit that right after last trimester? Wrong...the sole argument is that the baby is not a human being, it is the only way they can kill it without guilt.

If it's human being then any abortion has to be treated as murder, with the appropriate penalties.

Except in the case where giving birth would kill one or both the mother or the child. Then you are trying to save a life and it is triage, not murder. Saving a life is the only exception that is moral and isn't murder.

America is never going to start locking women up for life for having had an abortion. You're dreaming.

I am stating the truth and reality. What Americans decide should be the law is hardly ever the truth and hardly ever addresses reality.

To equate the killing of a 2 day old fertilized human egg with the killing of a 2 year old child or a 20 year old person is far from reality.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If the fetus is a human being, or more precisely a person for legal purposes, then it would be entitled to constitutional equal protection under the law.
That protection includes the protection provided by laws against harm to its person, including fatal harm, which is what an abortion would be.
The fetus as a person would have the constitutional right not to be murdered, and that right is enforced by law.

Therefore aborting a fetus would have to be treated as murder, with all that implies. Any other treatment would be unconstitutional.

Wow...you do get it. The baby is a human being and humans have rights, including the right to not be murdered. Killing a baby is murder. Sadly, too many people hide it behind words like "fetus."

I said if.

I guarantee you that 99% of the anti-abortion people on this board do not agree with what I posted.

 

[2aguy]

If you believe the woman has the right to make decisions for her own body...why limit that right after last trimester? Wrong...the sole argument is that the baby is not a human being, it is the only way they can kill it without guilt.

If it's human being then any abortion has to be treated as murder, with the appropriate penalties.

Except in the case where giving birth would kill one or both the mother or the child. Then you are trying to save a life and it is triage, not murder. Saving a life is the only exception that is moral and isn't murder.

America is never going to start locking women up for life for having had an abortion. You're dreaming.

I am stating the truth and reality. What Americans decide should be the law is hardly ever the truth and hardly ever addresses reality.

To equate the killing of a 2 day old fertilized human egg with the killing of a 2 year old child or a 20 year old person is far from reality.

No, it is the truth. Left unmolested that 2 day old egg will become a full sized human being. Where you kill it in the process doesn't make it less human.

 

[JoeB131]

So fetuses have human DNA. And that supports the right-to-control-others-lives arguments how?

no, a baby is a human being and shouldn't be murdered.....and when the baby is born the woman can give up the baby and live her life...without killing another human being.......

You mean other than having her reputation ruined and all the complications of an unexpected pregnancy?

Here's the thing about you Wingnuts, and why I stopped taking you seriously on this issue.

There are two approaches you could take to reduce the number of abortions. One of them is to try to use the force of law to stop them. It's what you all claim will never, ever work with guns but will totally work with abortions.

Okay. Except it's been tried. The Philippines have the most restrictive laws on abortion in Asia. Yet it is estimated that 500,000 to 800,000 illegal abortions are performed there every year. Some of the methods are quite crude and 4000 Filipinas die every year from botched abortions. That doesn't stop them. They are having abortions at a higher rate than women in the US.

Another even worse example is Romania in the 1960's and 70's. Their whacky dictator decided the way to make Romania a major power was to not only ban abortion but birth control as well. and it worked. For about a year. Then the birth rate plummeted as people found ways to get abortions and birth control under the radar. Eventually people had eno ugh and shot their dictator.

So banning abortion- ain't gonna happen and ain't gonna work.

The converse to that would be France. Now, in France, abortion is totally legal in the first 12 weeks, and the government pays for them. After 12 weeks, a doctor has to give a good medical reason for them.

But France also provides free medical care, free child care, paid family and medical leave and even have government employees who will stop by in the first few weeks and help you get adjusted and perform chores.

"OH MY GOD" Conservative Me from 2000 screams, "That's TOTAL ******* SOCIALISM! That's not what the Founding Fathers would have wanted!!!!"

Yeah, but here's the thing. France has about half the abortion rate we have. There will still be the women who think Abortion is an okay method of birht control and you can't fix that kind of stupid. But if it comes down to economic choices, those babies can be saved.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You're kind of mashing things together and claiming things I've neither said nor suggested.

Funny you use that reasoning to define what is or isn't a human being.

I have not defined what is or isn't a human being.

It would help us all if you would just stop with the bullshit word parsings and tell us what you actually believe. Or do you need these excuses in order to support murder of the innocent?

I won't stop with the "word parsings" until you (or rather TK) stops assuming I'm saying things I haven't said simply because I'm pro-choice and therefor must be saying it.

I believe that only the woman has the right to make decisions regarding her own body. That right is primary. Secondary comes the right of her fetus. I don't support elective abortions in the last trimester of pregnancy except under certain conditions: the mother's health or life is indangered or severe fetal deformaties. No one argues that it is not a "human being". But whether it is a person to be granted all rights is another argument entirely.

If you believe the woman has the right to make decisions for her own body...why limit that right after last trimester? Wrong...the sole argument is that the baby is not a human being, it is the only way they can kill it without guilt.

It's not a 'belief,' its a fact: all persons have a right to privacy, including women the right to decide whether to have a child or not absent unwarranted interference by the state.

And although inalienable, our rights are not absolute, and subject to reasonable restrictions by government, including the right to privacy, where limits can be placed on when abortions may be performed, and seeking to 'ban' abortion manifest as an undue burden to exercising the right to privacy, and is hence un-Constitutional.

It's also a fact of law that prior to birth the embryo/fetus is not entitled to Constitutional protections, consequently to refer to abortion as 'murder' is ignorant idiocy and demagoguery.

To seek to overturn the Constitutional underpinnings of the right to privacy – the fundamental, inalienable right to be free to make personal, private decisions about one's life absent interference by the state – is to seek to increase the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty, something conservatives were once opposed to, but now seek to implement, the tragic consequence of associating with the social right.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If it's human being then any abortion has to be treated as murder, with the appropriate penalties.

Except in the case where giving birth would kill one or both the mother or the child. Then you are trying to save a life and it is triage, not murder. Saving a life is the only exception that is moral and isn't murder.

America is never going to start locking women up for life for having had an abortion. You're dreaming.

I am stating the truth and reality. What Americans decide should be the law is hardly ever the truth and hardly ever addresses reality.

To equate the killing of a 2 day old fertilized human egg with the killing of a 2 year old child or a 20 year old person is far from reality.

No, it is the truth. Left unmolested that 2 day old egg will become a full sized human being. Where you kill it in the process doesn't make it less human.

Every cell in your body is human. duh

 

[NYcarbineer]

If it's human being then any abortion has to be treated as murder, with the appropriate penalties.

Except in the case where giving birth would kill one or both the mother or the child. Then you are trying to save a life and it is triage, not murder. Saving a life is the only exception that is moral and isn't murder.

America is never going to start locking women up for life for having had an abortion. You're dreaming.

I am stating the truth and reality. What Americans decide should be the law is hardly ever the truth and hardly ever addresses reality.

To equate the killing of a 2 day old fertilized human egg with the killing of a 2 year old child or a 20 year old person is far from reality.

No, it is the truth. Left unmolested that 2 day old egg will become a full sized human being. Where you kill it in the process doesn't make it less human.

Oh, your position is clear enough. Unfortunately it is so unreasonable that very few anti-abortionists even agree with you.

 

[2aguy]

Funny you use that reasoning to define what is or isn't a human being.

I have not defined what is or isn't a human being.

It would help us all if you would just stop with the bullshit word parsings and tell us what you actually believe. Or do you need these excuses in order to support murder of the innocent?

I won't stop with the "word parsings" until you (or rather TK) stops assuming I'm saying things I haven't said simply because I'm pro-choice and therefor must be saying it.

I believe that only the woman has the right to make decisions regarding her own body. That right is primary. Secondary comes the right of her fetus. I don't support elective abortions in the last trimester of pregnancy except under certain conditions: the mother's health or life is indangered or severe fetal deformaties. No one argues that it is not a "human being". But whether it is a person to be granted all rights is another argument entirely.

If you believe the woman has the right to make decisions for her own body...why limit that right after last trimester? Wrong...the sole argument is that the baby is not a human being, it is the only way they can kill it without guilt.

It's not a 'belief,' its a fact: all persons have a right to privacy, including women the right to decide whether to have a child or not absent unwarranted interference by the state.

And although inalienable, our rights are not absolute, and subject to reasonable restrictions by government, including the right to privacy, where limits can be placed on when abortions may be performed, and seeking to 'ban' abortion manifest as an undue burden to exercising the right to privacy, and is hence un-Constitutional.

It's also a fact of law that prior to birth the embryo/fetus is not entitled to Constitutional protections, consequently to refer to abortion as 'murder' is ignorant idiocy and demagoguery.

To seek to overturn the Constitutional underpinnings of the right to privacy – the fundamental, inalienable right to be free to make personal, private decisions about one's life absent interference by the state – is to seek to increase the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty, something conservatives were once opposed to, but now seek to implement, the tragic consequence of associating with the social right.

Justify murder any way you want moron...

 

[Misty]

I get women wanting the choice I just wish they would they wouldn't make light of the fact that an abortion ends a human life.

Just know that when you choose to abort your clump of cells you are taking a human life.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

America is never going to start locking women up for life for having had an abortion. You're dreaming.

Even though that's not actually going to happen under when it becomes illegal. I can see clinics being illegal, just like it'd be illegal to set up your own private meth dispensary. The "doctors" (used loosely as they're acting in open defiance of the Hippocratic Oath the community no longer even gives a shit about) would find their trade as illegal as other forms of hitmen.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

To equate the killing of a 2 day old fertilized human egg with the killing of a 2 year old child or a 20 year old person is far from reality.

Ageism would also have it that killing a two week old child isn't nearly as bad as killing a nineteen year old.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So fetuses have human DNA. And that supports the right-to-control-others-lives arguments how?

You don't understand how being a living human being changes the perspective on the situation? Really?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I notice how misogynistic liberals get when a woman shares an opposing view on abortion.

Liberals get misogynistic any time a woman leaves the leftist reservation.

 

[Dragonlady]

I would like to respond to the idea that a 2 day old fertilized egg will become a human being. That's not true. That the egg will develop normal and eventually become a human being isn't a certainty, only a possibility.

One third of all pregnancies end in miscarriages. When abortion is banned, women who miscarry become suspects.

 

[NYcarbineer]

America is never going to start locking women up for life for having had an abortion. You're dreaming.

Even though that's not actually going to happen under when it becomes illegal. I can see clinics being illegal, just like it'd be illegal to set up your own private meth dispensary. The "doctors" (used loosely as they're acting in open defiance of the Hippocratic Oath the community no longer even gives a shit about) would find their trade as illegal as other forms of hitmen.

You can't exempt women from the crime of murder if abortion is murder and they have an abortion. That makes no sense.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Saw her on Bill Maher - she's a ditz whose only claim to fame is bankrupting a major company.

Unless she's pregnant, abortion is none of her business. Same to the useless little boy who wrote the OP.

MYOB and get a job.

Well, since YOU can't get pregnant AT ALL, it DEFINITELY isn't any of your business. So why are you posting, hypocrite?

MYOB and practice what you preach, jackass.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I notice how misogynistic liberals get when a woman shares an opposing view on abortion.

Liberals get misogynistic any time a woman leaves the leftist reservation.

And as always, out comes the vagina card.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I would like to respond to the idea that a 2 day old fertilized egg will become a human being. That's not true. That the egg will develop normal and eventually become a human being isn't a certainty, only a possibility.

One third of all pregnancies end in miscarriages. When abortion is banned, women who miscarry become suspects.

Ahh, I do so love the "hard science" approach of the left.

Honestly, is there a single instance in which the left thinks that reality is NOT subject to preferences and whims and airy-fairy redefinition?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Of course zygotes have DNA. Who the hell said they didn't?

You did. The specific phrase was "a clump of cells" if I recall.

It is an accurate phrase.

Only to the extent that you, I, and every other human being on the planet is ALSO a "clump of cells".

It's technically accurate, but not especially specific or useful.