North Korea vs Gun Control

[OKTexas]

You're not very smart, are ya? This is a guy that used artillery to kill his uncle and a nerve agent to kill his half brother in a crowded airport. No one knows how many he has murdered or starved to death in his own country. The country has agreed to abandon their nuclear ambitions multiple times for payment of tribute, three US presidents paid, how'd that work out?

If China or his own regime doesn't take him out, we will most likely have to, and it won't be pretty. Reagan, GHW Bush or Clinton should have done it, now we are where we are, it's up to the Kim regime what happens form here.

BTW, your analogy sucks.


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You call me stupid and then follow to show no understanding of my OP and then you go off on a rant that has nothing to do with the OP... Saying my analogy sucks is an argument a low IQ grade schooler makes... You're not doing yourself any favors with that response. Want to try again?

I fully understood the childish OP, you obviously have no understanding what is going on now or the history of the peninsula. Your attempt to equivocate real weapons of mass destruction in hands of evil to Americans having guns is below 4th grade reasoning.


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Oh did you think I was equivocating? Did you read the last line of the OP? You're little insults aren't working out very well for you... do you want to try and throw out some intelligent arguments to shut me down or are childish retorts all you have?

You asked for thoughts on your BS OP, I gave you mine. If you don't like them, tough.


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No, I asked for thoughts about the comparison between N Korea and domestic gun control. Not my fault if it went over your head. Feel free to piss off

It was an infantile comparison, I said that early on, feel free to practice what you preach.


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[ABikerSailor]

You know, I respect the OP's question, because there are quite a few similarities between the two.

However, the analogy falls apart when the question is asked if N. Korea should be allowed to keep their weapons. Why? Because there is no governing authority that has the ability or the jurisdiction to tell a country what they can and can't do with their economy and materials. If there was a governing authority that could force nations to behave in a responsible manner, it might be different, but it's not.

All we have along those lines is sanctions by the UN, but if other countries don't follow them, then they are pretty much useless.

 

[9thIDdoc]

There is an interesting parallel between the NK situation and the gun control debate that I want to throw out there...

Based on the slogan, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" does that also apply to Nukes? "Nukes don't kill people, people who push the button kill people" So does the rationale apply to both situations?

Is North Korea breaking international law by testing and developing weapons? Are they breaking laws by talking shit and making threats? If so, what laws are being broken? If not, then does the fact that they are developing weapons and threatening to use them if attacked warrant a military response like Trump has proclaimed?

Last time I checked it isn't illegal for a US citizen to threaten to use lethal force if they are attacked or if somebody threatens their life or family.

I know it isn't exactly apples to apples but thought it would stir an interesting debate. thoughts?

"Based on the slogan, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" does that also apply to Nukes? "Nukes don't kill people, people who push the button kill people" So does the rationale apply to both situations?"

Yes.

"Is North Korea breaking international law by testing and developing weapons? Are they breaking laws by talking shit and making threats? If so, what laws are being broken?"

No. "International law" is fictional. Does not exist in reality.

"If not, then does the fact that they are developing weapons and threatening to use them if attacked warrant a military response like Trump has proclaimed?"

President Trump was elected to act in the best interests of the American people. If that includes blowing Asia back into the stone age that is what is required of him.

 

[Slade3200]

You call me stupid and then follow to show no understanding of my OP and then you go off on a rant that has nothing to do with the OP... Saying my analogy sucks is an argument a low IQ grade schooler makes... You're not doing yourself any favors with that response. Want to try again?

I fully understood the childish OP, you obviously have no understanding what is going on now or the history of the peninsula. Your attempt to equivocate real weapons of mass destruction in hands of evil to Americans having guns is below 4th grade reasoning.


.

Oh did you think I was equivocating? Did you read the last line of the OP? You're little insults aren't working out very well for you... do you want to try and throw out some intelligent arguments to shut me down or are childish retorts all you have?

You asked for thoughts on your BS OP, I gave you mine. If you don't like them, tough.


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No, I asked for thoughts about the comparison between N Korea and domestic gun control. Not my fault if it went over your head. Feel free to piss off

It was an infantile comparison, I said that early on, feel free to practice what you preach.


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I do practice what I preach. Look at my posts, I state an arguement or opinion and then explain why or reference facts that support what I'm saying. Look at yours... empty insults, no substance. Saying I'm making an infantile comparison without explaining why means absolutely nothing... especially after the last line of my OP states that I realize I'm not comparing apples to apples... just makes you look infantile and shows that you missed the point

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know Slade3200, 9thIDoc is right, there isn't really any such thing as "international law", because that is nothing more than a bunch of treaties drawn up between countries and they can back out of those agreements if they wish, or they can choose to only halfway enforce them.

For the halfway enforcement, see China. They don't like what N. Korea is doing, they have signed on to the sanctions imposed by the UN, but they are still contributing a great deal to their economy.

 

[Slade3200]

You know, I respect the OP's question, because there are quite a few similarities between the two.

However, the analogy falls apart when the question is asked if N. Korea should be allowed to keep their weapons. Why? Because there is no governing authority that has the ability or the jurisdiction to tell a country what they can and can't do with their economy and materials. If there was a governing authority that could force nations to behave in a responsible manner, it might be different, but it's not.

All we have along those lines is sanctions by the UN, but if other countries don't follow them, then they are pretty much useless.

I agree with your assessment which is why it is an exploratory discussion. We have a system of laws and rights in this country and a governing authority to evolve and enforce those laws. North Korea is their own nation, yet we are having discussions about changing their leadership and/or taking their weapons away, and/or using our power to effect their economy and strong arm them into doing what we want. We do this for our own protection and national security so I'm not objecting to it or even stating a position about it. I'm just curious about the differing viewpoints about what defines or justifies our actions and why. People like okTexas don't seem to get it and want to get in petty squabbles, but I've enjoyed the discussion and arguments that ABikerSailor brought to the thread. That's to type of smart civil discussion I was hoping for.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, I respect the OP's question, because there are quite a few similarities between the two.

However, the analogy falls apart when the question is asked if N. Korea should be allowed to keep their weapons. Why? Because there is no governing authority that has the ability or the jurisdiction to tell a country what they can and can't do with their economy and materials. If there was a governing authority that could force nations to behave in a responsible manner, it might be different, but it's not.

All we have along those lines is sanctions by the UN, but if other countries don't follow them, then they are pretty much useless.

I agree with your assessment which is why it is an exploratory discussion. We have a system of laws and rights in this country and a governing authority to evolve and enforce those laws. North Korea is their own nation, yet we are having discussions about changing their leadership and/or taking their weapons away, and/or using our power to effect their economy and strong arm them into doing what we want. We do this for our own protection and national security so I'm not objecting to it or even stating a position about it. I'm just curious about the differing viewpoints about what defines or justifies our actions and why. People like okTexas don't seem to get it and want to get in petty squabbles, but I've enjoyed the discussion and arguments that ABikerSailor brought to the thread. That's to type of smart civil discussion I was hoping for.

Well, then I'll summarize................

Kim Jon Un meets all the criteria of what would be required in this country to take away his weapons. He's crazy, he's been threatening others, and has landed his missiles in international waters.

Unfortunately, because there is no one world governing authority, all we can hope for is for other nations to go along with our sanctions, and that N. Korea won't fire missiles at US properties. Trump has said he was getting China to help out, but so far, they seem to not be interested as they are still holding up N. Korea's economy for them.

 

[Slade3200]

There is an interesting parallel between the NK situation and the gun control debate that I want to throw out there...

Based on the slogan, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" does that also apply to Nukes? "Nukes don't kill people, people who push the button kill people" So does the rationale apply to both situations?

Is North Korea breaking international law by testing and developing weapons? Are they breaking laws by talking shit and making threats? If so, what laws are being broken? If not, then does the fact that they are developing weapons and threatening to use them if attacked warrant a military response like Trump has proclaimed?

Last time I checked it isn't illegal for a US citizen to threaten to use lethal force if they are attacked or if somebody threatens their life or family.

I know it isn't exactly apples to apples but thought it would stir an interesting debate. thoughts?

"Based on the slogan, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" does that also apply to Nukes? "Nukes don't kill people, people who push the button kill people" So does the rationale apply to both situations?"

Yes.

"Is North Korea breaking international law by testing and developing weapons? Are they breaking laws by talking shit and making threats? If so, what laws are being broken?"

No. "International law" is fictional. Does not exist in reality.

"If not, then does the fact that they are developing weapons and threatening to use them if attacked warrant a military response like Trump has proclaimed?"

President Trump was elected to act in the best interests of the American people. If that includes blowing Asia back into the stone age that is what is required of him.

Thanks for the direct answers, I like your style and appreciate you staying on topic.

I want to push back at your Trump assessment a little... though you are correct that he is our elected commander and chief I can't help to be nervous about his ability to make the best decisions for our country when it comes to military matters. He was largely elected because of his business background by people that wanted less government, a better economy, and a shake up in Washington. He has zero military experience. And his messaging seems to contrast the messaging of his military advisors whom I do very much respect. I think those advisors are capable of making smart decisions I just hope Trumps mouth doesn't get us into a war with a crazy manchild. That was a bit off topic but I thought it a point worth making

 

[Juche]

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea understands this truth - If Iraq really had nuclear weapons in the year Juche 92, it would not have been invaded by the American Imperialists.

During this time, President George Bush linked the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea together with Iraq in the 'axis of evil'.
We are determined to not meet the same fate as the Iraqi people. We will not be a chess piece in the game of Imperialism.
Thanks to our President, the Great Leader Comrade Kim Il-sung, we are proud and we are strong and with the Chairman, Marshal Comrade Kim Jong-un, to lead us, we will become ever stronger.

 

[OKTexas]

I fully understood the childish OP, you obviously have no understanding what is going on now or the history of the peninsula. Your attempt to equivocate real weapons of mass destruction in hands of evil to Americans having guns is below 4th grade reasoning.


.

Oh did you think I was equivocating? Did you read the last line of the OP? You're little insults aren't working out very well for you... do you want to try and throw out some intelligent arguments to shut me down or are childish retorts all you have?

You asked for thoughts on your BS OP, I gave you mine. If you don't like them, tough.


.

No, I asked for thoughts about the comparison between N Korea and domestic gun control. Not my fault if it went over your head. Feel free to piss off

It was an infantile comparison, I said that early on, feel free to practice what you preach.


.

I do practice what I preach. Look at my posts, I state an arguement or opinion and then explain why or reference facts that support what I'm saying. Look at yours... empty insults, no substance. Saying I'm making an infantile comparison without explaining why means absolutely nothing... especially after the last line of my OP states that I realize I'm not comparing apples to apples... just makes you look infantile and shows that you missed the point

I guess you missed my first post, but that's OK, infantilism often accompanies senility.

I realize I'm not comparing apples to apples

At least you got one point right, you were comparing nuclear weapons to privately held American firearms. And NO crazy people don't get to have either.


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[Slade3200]

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea understands this truth - If Iraq really had nuclear weapons in the year Juche 92, it would not have been invaded by the American Imperialists.

During this time, President George Bush linked the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea together with Iraq in the 'axis of evil'.
We are determined to not meet the same fate as the Iraqi people. We will not be a chess piece in the game of Imperialism.
Thanks to our President, the Great Leader Comrade Kim Il-sung, we are proud and we are strong and with the Chairman, Marshal Comrade Kim Jong-un, to lead us, we will become ever stronger.

Why not just be cool? chill out and stop talking shit and making threats. America wouldn't care at all about what you did if you weren't making threats. You could chill, we could chill, and we all could just be happy doing our own thing. How does that sound?

 

[Juche]

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea understands this truth - If Iraq really had nuclear weapons in the year Juche 92, it would not have been invaded by the American Imperialists.

During this time, President George Bush linked the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea together with Iraq in the 'axis of evil'.
We are determined to not meet the same fate as the Iraqi people. We will not be a chess piece in the game of Imperialism.
Thanks to our President, the Great Leader Comrade Kim Il-sung, we are proud and we are strong and with the Chairman, Marshal Comrade Kim Jong-un, to lead us, we will become ever stronger.

Why not just be cool? chill out and stop talking shit and making threats. America wouldn't care at all about what you did if you weren't making threats. You could chill, we could chill, and we all could just be happy doing our own thing. How does that sound?

Korea is occupied by American Imperialists. Leave and then there will be peace.

 

[Slade3200]

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea understands this truth - If Iraq really had nuclear weapons in the year Juche 92, it would not have been invaded by the American Imperialists.

During this time, President George Bush linked the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea together with Iraq in the 'axis of evil'.
We are determined to not meet the same fate as the Iraqi people. We will not be a chess piece in the game of Imperialism.
Thanks to our President, the Great Leader Comrade Kim Il-sung, we are proud and we are strong and with the Chairman, Marshal Comrade Kim Jong-un, to lead us, we will become ever stronger.

Why not just be cool? chill out and stop talking shit and making threats. America wouldn't care at all about what you did if you weren't making threats. You could chill, we could chill, and we all could just be happy doing our own thing. How does that sound?

Korea is occupied by American Imperialists. Leave and then there will be peace.

Are you talking about our presence in South Korea? Or are you saying we have forces in North Korea that you want out?

 

[Juche]

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea understands this truth - If Iraq really had nuclear weapons in the year Juche 92, it would not have been invaded by the American Imperialists.

During this time, President George Bush linked the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea together with Iraq in the 'axis of evil'.
We are determined to not meet the same fate as the Iraqi people. We will not be a chess piece in the game of Imperialism.
Thanks to our President, the Great Leader Comrade Kim Il-sung, we are proud and we are strong and with the Chairman, Marshal Comrade Kim Jong-un, to lead us, we will become ever stronger.

Why not just be cool? chill out and stop talking shit and making threats. America wouldn't care at all about what you did if you weren't making threats. You could chill, we could chill, and we all could just be happy doing our own thing. How does that sound?

Korea is occupied by American Imperialists. Leave and then there will be peace.

Are you talking about our presence in South Korea? Or are you saying we have forces in North Korea that you want out?

Korea is one nation and one people.

 

[Slade3200]

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea understands this truth - If Iraq really had nuclear weapons in the year Juche 92, it would not have been invaded by the American Imperialists.

During this time, President George Bush linked the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea together with Iraq in the 'axis of evil'.
We are determined to not meet the same fate as the Iraqi people. We will not be a chess piece in the game of Imperialism.
Thanks to our President, the Great Leader Comrade Kim Il-sung, we are proud and we are strong and with the Chairman, Marshal Comrade Kim Jong-un, to lead us, we will become ever stronger.

Why not just be cool? chill out and stop talking shit and making threats. America wouldn't care at all about what you did if you weren't making threats. You could chill, we could chill, and we all could just be happy doing our own thing. How does that sound?

Korea is occupied by American Imperialists. Leave and then there will be peace.

Are you talking about our presence in South Korea? Or are you saying we have forces in North Korea that you want out?

Korea is one nation and one people.

How does Mr Moon fit into that?

 

[Rustic]

The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea understands this truth - If Iraq really had nuclear weapons in the year Juche 92, it would not have been invaded by the American Imperialists.

During this time, President George Bush linked the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea together with Iraq in the 'axis of evil'.
We are determined to not meet the same fate as the Iraqi people. We will not be a chess piece in the game of Imperialism.
Thanks to our President, the Great Leader Comrade Kim Il-sung, we are proud and we are strong and with the Chairman, Marshal Comrade Kim Jong-un, to lead us, we will become ever stronger.

Why not just be cool? chill out and stop talking shit and making threats. America wouldn't care at all about what you did if you weren't making threats. You could chill, we could chill, and we all could just be happy doing our own thing. How does that sound?

Korea is occupied by American Imperialists. Leave and then there will be peace.

Are you talking about our presence in South Korea? Or are you saying we have forces in North Korea that you want out?

Korea is one nation and one people.