North Korea Attacks!

[Circe]

You come out looking like a liar.

Here's the rule:

If you can't talk nice, you can't talk to me. Good-bye, FA_Q2.

 

[Flopper]

In the same manner that we own SK.

That is just the reality of it. Large powers no longer fight wars because the distruction that it causes destroys all involved. The world learned this during the last world war and we are no longer interested in that occurrence with the new weapons that are ready to be brought to bear. It is one of the reasons that we no longer ‘conquer’ other nations. We don’t really want the land.

Instead, we fight ‘proxy’ wars through smaller nations. NK is simply the nation that we are fighting China with atm. In all reality though, war will be a reflection of the aggressor. If NK attacks, as I stated before, China is NOT going to get involved. It is simple as that.

The reason that China has been issuing statements of that like recently is that they are already relying themselves to abandon NK if they attack. It is HIGHLY unlikely that they will BUT China does not make a habit of relying on ‘likely.’ Again, China is not going to suffer the negative consequences of going to war over an errant dictator. IF SK was the aggressor then you would see china involved and we, in all likelihood, would not get involved at all.

I disagree. China would defend North Korean territory because it serves as a buffer between them and free South Korea. China does not share a border with any truly free country except India, and even there it's comprised of the rugged Himalaya's. IF South Korea and the US repeated the subjugation of the North as we did in 1950, I believe China would react pretty much the same way because an accessible border with a truly free state would draw disaffected and unhappy Chinese by the thousands, a state of affairs which would reveal the lie of the so-called "moderate" China.

Perhaps I should remind posters, Russia also shares a land border with North Korea and that border in within artillery range of the Vladivostok naval base.

Do you think the Russians will allow American troops that close?
I don't.

Like China, Russia has more ties to the west than they do to North Korea. Russian relations have cooled with North Korea over the nuclear arms. In fact, trade deals with North Korea have been tied to a moratorium on nuclear weapons development.

50 years ago boarder consideration would have been of paramount importance to both China and Russia, however I think economic considerations are more important today for both countries. South Korea is a major trading partner with China and Russia is trying to increase trade. A shared boarder with South Korea would benefit both countries, far more than a shared boarder with North Korea.

 

[FA_Q2]

You come out looking like a liar.

Here's the rule:

If you can't talk nice, you can't talk to me. Good-bye, FA_Q2.

If you want me to be nice, do not misquote me and misrepresent what I have said. Other than that, I have been quite nice to your posts. Good bye to you as well.

 

[Unkotare]

Me: "We didn't win ONE Revolutionary War battle...

Um, yes we did. Were you too busy with conspiracy theories to pay attention in history class?

 

[Unkotare]

We're in Afghanistan just for the Drug Trade.

That's stupid. Loosen your tinfoil hat.

 

[Oldguy]

Which one of those did we "lose"?

You were forced to a standstill in Korea..

"Forced"? No.

"Forced?" Yes.

 

[Oldguy]

OldGuy: "We didn't lose ONE battle in Vietnam! Our leaders lost it for us!"

Don't put words into my mouth. I never said that and never will.

 

[Circe]

You were forced to a standstill in Korea..

"Forced"? No.

"Forced?" Yes.

If he had to do it again, considering what is going on now, I wonder if Truman would have let MacArthur go on north. And also use nukes.

Looks like a missile launch tomorrow, headlines here are saying. If war comes, I bet a lot of people will wish Truman hadn't got cold feet. Never, NEVER accept an Armistice. If we didn't learn that from the 20th century, which had two disastrous armistices, we didn't learn much.

 

[Lovebears65]

got this on facebook

 

[Jarlaxle]

Any attack on South Korea by North Korea should result in Pyongyang vanishing in a nuclear fireball.

If you bomb in the summer, China, Japan and Russia are going to be less than pleased but, if you bomb in the winter, you fuck yourselves.

Any other insane ideas?

Tell the Chinese to curb their mad dog. Don't care what they do or how they do it, but deal with him permanently!

 

[Jarlaxle]

I disagree. China would defend North Korean territory because it serves as a buffer between them and free South Korea. China does not share a border with any truly free country except India, and even there it's comprised of the rugged Himalaya's. IF South Korea and the US repeated the subjugation of the North as we did in 1950, I believe China would react pretty much the same way because an accessible border with a truly free state would draw disaffected and unhappy Chinese by the thousands, a state of affairs which would reveal the lie of the so-called "moderate" China.

Perhaps I should remind posters, Russia also shares a land border with North Korea and that border in within artillery range of the Vladivostok naval base.

Do you think the Russians will allow American troops that close?
I don't.

They did in 1950. Why shouldn't they now?

They didn't rely on exports for their entire economy in 1950. Also, China could be brought to its knees with a very simple tactic: they import almost all their oil. Stop the imports and the country grinds to a halt.

 

[Jarlaxle]

We don't fight defensive wars anymore. We fight aggressive wars: Korea, Vietnam, Iraq II, Afghanistan. And we always, always lose...

Which one of those did we "lose"?

Vietnam. OldGuy can tell ya', he was there.

OldGuy: "We didn't lose ONE battle in Vietnam! Our leaders lost it for us!"
Me: "We didn't win ONE Revolutionary War battle, just as the Vietnamese did. Look who ended up winning."

We're in Afghanistan just for the Drug Trade.

You are a troll with no grasp of history. Please shut up, your betters are talking.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Your either very ignorant or naïve.


In 2010, the North Koreans sank a South Korean warship, killing 46, and launched an artillery barrage on an island that killed two of its civilians and two South Korean marines.
North Korean forces are arrayed along the demilitarized zone with 10,000 artillery pieces capable of reaching Seoul, said Bruce Klingner, a former CIA analyst now at the Heritage Foundation.

That proximity would let them cause a lot of casualties and damage in the initial stages of an attack. The North Koreans have about 1.1 million troops in their armed forces. Three-quarters of them are staged within 60 miles of the DMZ, Klingner said.

They also have long-range missiles capable of reaching targets in Japan and U.S. bases in Guam, Okinawa and the Japanese mainland.

Any conventional attack from the North would likely begin with an artillery barrage, which could include chemical weapons. The North Koreans have 5,000 tons of chemical warheads.

"They would try to overwhelm U.S. and Korean forces with volume," he said.

The artillery barrage would probably be followed by a blitzkrieg of tanks. The North has at least 4,000 tanks, though most of them are older Soviet-era models. Mechanized forces and infantry could also pour across the border. The North's special forces could infiltrate south in advance of an assault.

U.S. warplanes would attempt to destroy the artillery and tanks quickly in precision airstrikes, said Michael O'Hanlon, a military analyst at the Brookings Institution. The worst case: a nuclear missile or aircraft carrying such a weapon could slip through the South's defenses.

Any initial assault would face about 28,500 U.S. troops and about 600,000 troops in the South Korean armed forces.

North Korean forces are arrayed along the demilitarized zone with 10,000 artillery pieces capable of reaching Seoul, said Bruce Klingner, a former CIA analyst now at the Heritage Foundation.

That proximity would let them cause a lot of casualties and damage in the initial stages of an attack. The North Koreans have about 1.1 million troops in their armed forces. Three-quarters of them are staged within 60 miles of the DMZ, Klingner said.

They also have long-range missiles capable of reaching targets in Japan and U.S. bases in Guam, Okinawa and the Japanese mainland.

Any conventional attack from the North would likely begin with an artillery barrage, which could include chemical weapons. The North Koreans have 5,000 tons of chemical warheads, Klingner said.

"They would try to overwhelm U.S. and Korean forces with volume," he said.

The artillery barrage would probably be followed by a blitzkrieg of tanks. The North has at least 4,000 tanks, though most of them are older Soviet-era models. Mechanized forces and infantry could also pour across the border. The North's special forces could infiltrate south in advance of an assault.

U.S. warplanes would attempt to destroy the artillery and tanks quickly in precision airstrikes, said Michael O'Hanlon, a military analyst at the Brookings Institution. The worst case: a nuclear missile or aircraft carrying such a weapon could slip through the South's defenses.

Any initial assault would face about 28,500 U.S. troops and about 600,000 troops in the South Korean armed forces.

"In the war game simulations eventually we prevail, but it's World War I (levels of) casualties," Klingner said.

"That proximity would let them cause a lot of casualties and damage in the initial stages of an attack. The North Koreans have about 1.1 million troops in their armed forces. Three-quarters of them are staged within 60 miles of the DMZ, Klingner said.
"

That should make them easy to find and target.

Sounds to me like it's a perfect place to use nerve gas!

 

[Unkotare]

You were forced to a standstill in Korea..

"Forced"? No.

"Forced?" Yes.

Only if you mean by politicians back in DC.

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

 

[Circe]

Sounds to me like it's a perfect place to use nerve gas!

Small tactical nukes. Assuming they use nukes first. Otherwise we can't.

 

[Jarlaxle]

No, not nukes. Nerve gas. Phosgene. I can't imagine the NK troops have ANY protective gear. Those that do...well, that's what fuel-air explosives are for.

 

[Flopper]

In 2010, the North Koreans sank a South Korean warship, killing 46, and launched an artillery barrage on an island that killed two of its civilians and two South Korean marines.
North Korean forces are arrayed along the demilitarized zone with 10,000 artillery pieces capable of reaching Seoul, said Bruce Klingner, a former CIA analyst now at the Heritage Foundation.

That proximity would let them cause a lot of casualties and damage in the initial stages of an attack. The North Koreans have about 1.1 million troops in their armed forces. Three-quarters of them are staged within 60 miles of the DMZ, Klingner said.

They also have long-range missiles capable of reaching targets in Japan and U.S. bases in Guam, Okinawa and the Japanese mainland.

Any conventional attack from the North would likely begin with an artillery barrage, which could include chemical weapons. The North Koreans have 5,000 tons of chemical warheads.

"They would try to overwhelm U.S. and Korean forces with volume," he said.

The artillery barrage would probably be followed by a blitzkrieg of tanks. The North has at least 4,000 tanks, though most of them are older Soviet-era models. Mechanized forces and infantry could also pour across the border. The North's special forces could infiltrate south in advance of an assault.

U.S. warplanes would attempt to destroy the artillery and tanks quickly in precision airstrikes, said Michael O'Hanlon, a military analyst at the Brookings Institution. The worst case: a nuclear missile or aircraft carrying such a weapon could slip through the South's defenses.

Any initial assault would face about 28,500 U.S. troops and about 600,000 troops in the South Korean armed forces.

North Korean forces are arrayed along the demilitarized zone with 10,000 artillery pieces capable of reaching Seoul, said Bruce Klingner, a former CIA analyst now at the Heritage Foundation.

That proximity would let them cause a lot of casualties and damage in the initial stages of an attack. The North Koreans have about 1.1 million troops in their armed forces. Three-quarters of them are staged within 60 miles of the DMZ, Klingner said.

They also have long-range missiles capable of reaching targets in Japan and U.S. bases in Guam, Okinawa and the Japanese mainland.

Any conventional attack from the North would likely begin with an artillery barrage, which could include chemical weapons. The North Koreans have 5,000 tons of chemical warheads, Klingner said.

"They would try to overwhelm U.S. and Korean forces with volume," he said.

The artillery barrage would probably be followed by a blitzkrieg of tanks. The North has at least 4,000 tanks, though most of them are older Soviet-era models. Mechanized forces and infantry could also pour across the border. The North's special forces could infiltrate south in advance of an assault.

U.S. warplanes would attempt to destroy the artillery and tanks quickly in precision airstrikes, said Michael O'Hanlon, a military analyst at the Brookings Institution. The worst case: a nuclear missile or aircraft carrying such a weapon could slip through the South's defenses.

Any initial assault would face about 28,500 U.S. troops and about 600,000 troops in the South Korean armed forces.

"In the war game simulations eventually we prevail, but it's World War I (levels of) casualties," Klingner said.

"That proximity would let them cause a lot of casualties and damage in the initial stages of an attack. The North Koreans have about 1.1 million troops in their armed forces. Three-quarters of them are staged within 60 miles of the DMZ, Klingner said.

Very interesting and useful post. I did not know they had "5,000 tons of chemical warheads"! Nice guys, huh? It just reminds me that all, all, all weapons are always normalized AND used, however many people say they are "inhuman," dah-dah-dah, like people always do.

They forget, of course, that inhuman is exactly what is WANTED. As long as they achieve a win.

Well, I do not have a good feeling about this. My best hope is that it all has destabilized the region enough that the war fever will settle down but a reunification of Korea will break thru --- with South Korea governing it. I don't think we can go back to business as usual after this; it has the feeling of Yeltsin on the tank, somehow.

A unification of Korea would benefit everyone accept the government of North Korea.

 

[Flopper]

U.S. defenses could intercept a ballistic missile launched by North Korea, the top U.S. military commander in the Pacific said Tuesday, as the relationship between the West and the communist government hit its lowest ebb since the end of the Korean War.

During an exchange with Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., Locklear said the U.S. military has the capability to thwart a North Korean strike, but he said a decision on whether a missile should be intercepted should be based on where it is aimed and expected to land.

"I believe we have the ability to defend the homeland, Guam, Hawaii and defend our allies," said Locklear, who added that it wouldn't take long to determine where a missile would strike.

U.S. can intercept North Korean ballistic missile, top American admiral says - CBS News

 

[Unkotare]

Don't forget the Udon 1. Its full range is still unknown:

http://treeofmamre.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/long-udon-noodle.jpg?w=640