Zone1 No Wonder Why I Had Doubts In God's Existence Before

[The Duke]

Opiate of the masses. There is a separation of church and state written into the US Constitution because there is no freedom of religion without freedom from religion.

Thanks you for your opinion, Stalin Jr.

 

[ding]

We know what we perceive and if we don't perceive everything as it actually is we can never know the objective reality of anything.

And we do not perceive everything as it actually is do we?

We can know all kinds of shit but objective reality isn't one of them

So you are effectively agreeing with me by admitting you can't be objective or see reality.

 

[ding]

There you go. The paradox of knowing.

Actually it's the idiocy of subjectivity.

Earlier you said, the trick is to recognize biases," Why is recognizing biases the trick? Towards what end is recognizing biases if not to end them?

 

[ding]

All humans are unable to perceive objective reality.

If we can artificially create perceptions in the brain that a person will think are real then the idea of an objective reality is disproven.

And we can do this already and in time we will be even better at it than we are now.

But you are admitting you are subjective about everything, right?

 

[BULLDOG]

The entirety of scripture....proof texting is meaningless and it is usually out of context. Most often they are used to build those artificial gaps.

The scripture was certainly relevant to this discussion. Your out of context claim is inaccurate,

 

[Meriweather]

The scripture was certainly relevant to this discussion. Your out of context claim is inaccurate,

Yanking one passage out of scripture, ignoring all other passages that address the same issue is proof-texting. This pattern doesn't work:

• Find a minority belief among Christians, ignoring what the majority teaches.
• Find a single passage in scripture that appears to support the conclusion, ignoring all other passages that do not.
• Then with the minority belief and a single carefully picked Bible passage, speak for all of Christianity even though you have no belief in Christianity and do not follow it.

I stand by what I say. You are speaking out of context.

 

[BULLDOG]

Yanking one passage out of scripture, ignoring all other passages that address the same issue is proof-texting. This pattern doesn't work:

• Find a minority belief among Christians, ignoring what the majority teaches.
• Find a single passage in scripture that appears to support the conclusion, ignoring all other passages that do not.
• Then with the minority belief and a single carefully picked Bible passage, speak for all of Christianity even though you have no belief in Christianity and do not follow it.

I stand by what I say. You are speaking out of context.

As I have said many times, I was a devout Christian most of my life. Trying to say I don't know what I'm talking about is absurd. I would wager I know the Bible and the tenets of Christianity at least as well as you. Accepting Jesus as the only savior is the main focus of Christianity. Witout that, there is no Christianity.

 

[Meriweather]

As I have said many times, I was a devout Christian most of my life. Trying to say I don't know what I'm talking about is absurd. I would wager I know the Bible and the tenets of Christianity at least as well as you. Accepting Jesus as the only savior is the main focus of Christianity. Witout that, there is no Christianity.

It's not that you don't know what you are talking about. You are clearly talking about the minority view of Christianity.

Let's talk about the wider view. Jesus taught:

• God as our Father
• God as love
• The forgiveness of sins
• Jesus as Redeemer of the entire world
• The Way of salvation open to all--discerning the will of God and following it
• Loving as he loved

It is therefore puzzling that after Jesus bestowed redemption on the entire world and opened the way of salvation to everyone of all time, a few Christian sects decided they needed to contract and diminish Jesus message and limit it to a few.

Think about it. Weren't these limitations of God's love, forgiveness, redemption, and salvation so claustrophobic, you felt the need to break free? On the other hand, the magnitude of God's love, forgiveness, redemption, and salvation seems to overwhelm you as well.

If you know the Bible as you claim, then you know that Jesus taught the way of salvation did not rely on following rules, Temple sacrifices, or distancing oneself from the poor, from sinners, and those in the the lower social strata. Jesus' way of salvation was simply to discern the will of God and to follow it.

Jesus gave the instruction to proclaim the Good News. The Good News was not about limiting God or His love, His forgiveness, or His Way of Salvation. All of this is unlimited, open to all who want to take part in the Redemption of the whole world.

So while your sect of Christianity seems to have been about limiting God to a certain few, that is simply not true of all denominations or of all faiths.

 

[alang1216]

Except I actually know the science and you don't. So you would be incorrect. But if you are interested in learning the science I suggest starting here.

More arrogance. Thanks but I do know a bit about the science and I actually understand the implications of it.

 

[alang1216]

Why would anyone make that assumption without first seeking God...which begins with the concept God does exist.

I've always been impressed by resourcefulness of men. If they seek something with enough persistence, they will usually find it. That includes not only cures for our diseases but other things as well, e.g. God, Satan, angels, ghosts, UFOs, conspiracies, Leprechauns, Elvis, etc. That has always been my issue here, I can't begin with the concept God does exist. Or anything else on my short list.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

View attachment 852645

Your memes won't help you pass a 7th grade science quiz.

 

[Meriweather]

I can't begin with the concept God does exist.

Argue for limitations and we get to keep them.

That being said, there is so much knowledge in this world and this universe, that no one person can, in depth, investigate all. I chose God, but I have great admiration for those who choose to devote their time to curing disease, discovering ways for amputees to regain use of what was lost, great novels, physics--you name it.

Here is what I find difficult to understand: Because I do not spend time on sites telling others how wrong they are about--for example belief in leprechauns--it puzzles me that so many who hold no belief in God spend time in religion forums.

I don't believe in leprechauns so have little interest in them or discussing them. Those with no belief in God seem to retain an interest in God and in discussing Him. I've often wondered why that is.

 

[Blues Man]

Yet you engage people who are, stepping into their holy ground. You complain about and decry the problems this world faces, but you, yourself, do not take even the small courtesy of capitalizing God in a religion forum, speaking to people of faith. As I mentioned before: Want to make the world a better place, then start with your own small sphere and respect where you are.

No such thing as holy ground when speaking of ideas.

I am not going to compromise my own integrity by following a religious convention I have nothing to do with.

I can use another word if you are offended. Creator with a small c perhaps? or how about supreme being?

 

[Meriweather]

No such thing as holy ground when speaking of ideas.

When speaking of religion and faith, we are indeed on holy ground.

I am not going to compromise my own integrity by following a religious convention I have nothing to do with.

Disrespect is not a form of integrity.

I can use another word if you are offended. Creator with a small c perhaps? or how about supreme being?

You do not demean me by your disrespect of other beliefs, but yourself. A person of integrity gets that.

 

[Blues Man]

I didn't make a leap. I quoted you:


As our personal lives are a part of the larger picture, none are meaningless. But perhaps I should have asked, What do you consider the "larger picture" and what makes it so? Have you considered that you may be the larger picture, and the rest of the chaos in the outside world is simply a very small part of your world?

Yes in the larger picture what did you not understand about that?

What are my problems joys and sorrows in comparison to the totality of the universe, or even compared to the strife suffering and hardships of other on this little planet? What are yours in the totality of the universe? Then consider that we humans tend to invent problems that are not even there.

People that don't know me don't care about my relationship with my wife or a friend or my dogs or what I did for a living if I had a bad day or a great day. It matters nothing to them and why should I care if it does? That leads to expectations then to the clinging of desires to be important to others and it is that very desiring that is the problem. That does not negate that I can understand that people have lives just as complex as mine that I know nothing about in fact that is the definition of one of my favorite words

 

[Blues Man]

When speaking of religion and faith, we are indeed on holy ground.


Disrespect is not a form of integrity.


You do not demean me by your disrespect of other beliefs, but yourself. A person of integrity gets that.

I'm not trying to demean anyone. I see nothing disrespectful in using the word god, gods or the phrase the god of the bible or the god you worship.

Funny I have talked to people who don't worship the Abrahamic god and have used the same words and phrases and none of them have ever been offended, Hindu and Shinto practitioners specifically.

And then of course there are those nontheistic world views and their practitioners that don't get offended by talk of other gods

Maybe you're just too easily offended.

 

[Meriweather]

What are my problems joys and sorrows in comparison to the totality of the universe

The universe has no power to love. Individuals have the ability to love. What is an uncaring universe next to love?

People that don't know me don't care about my relationship with my wife or a friend or my dogs or what I did for a living if I had a bad day or a great day. It matters nothing to them and why should I care if it does?

Do you care, not only about your relationship, but to support the relationships of others? Do you care enough to quietly and without notice perform small acts of kindness?

Love and caring are an appreciable part of what goes on in the universe. I submit it is love that is the greater picture, and that each one of us can contribute to that picture.

 

[Blues Man]

Then the people in your personal life are doing horrible things to you?

People that have been in my personal life in the past have done horrible things to me.

And it matters not to the universe or to anyone else

 

[Blues Man]

That's an intellectually weak argument.

But true nonetheless.

Religions are made by men and fear was an integral component in the inception of all religions.

 

[Blues Man]

I already addressed this. They wouldn't necessarily believe in God because they are subjective. You prove this every time you dismiss the indirect evidence for God. It would be kind of hard for you to admit they would be objective after you stated you believe no one can ever be objective.

Arguing the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence is not a god of the gaps argument. It's an argument of intention. There are no gaps in the universe popping into existence. There are no gaps in intelligence being hardwired into the fabric of matter and the laws of nature. Although I expect you to argue it's not because you have already admitted you can't be objective about anything.

There is no evidence all we have are things we cannot explain and may never be able to explain.

And you can't be objective about anything either because your perceptions are as faulty as every other human's.

You're just to full of your own self to see it.