No veils in France

[tigerbob]

At least two women have been detained in France while wearing Islamic veils across their faces, after a law banning the garment in public came into force.

Police said they were held not because of their veils but for joining an unauthorised protest against the ban.

France is the first country in Europe to publicly ban a form of dress some Muslims regard as a religious duty.

Anyone caught breaking the law will be liable to a fine of 150 euros (£133; $217) and a citizenship course.

People forcing women to wear the veil face a much larger fine and a prison sentence of up to two years.

It was not clear whether the women detained at the protest would also be fined for their veils.

BBC News - Women in face veils detained as France enforces ban

Being required to remove a veil in an area where security / identification is an issue (like airports) is reasonable enough, but being banned from wearing it in a public park seems a bit draconian.

 

[Blagger]

At least two women have been detained in France while wearing Islamic veils across their faces, after a law banning the garment in public came into force.

Police said they were held not because of their veils but for joining an unauthorised protest against the ban.

France is the first country in Europe to publicly ban a form of dress some Muslims regard as a religious duty.

Anyone caught breaking the law will be liable to a fine of 150 euros (£133; $217) and a citizenship course.

People forcing women to wear the veil face a much larger fine and a prison sentence of up to two years.

It was not clear whether the women detained at the protest would also be fined for their veils.

BBC News - Women in face veils detained as France enforces ban

Being required to remove a veil in an area where security / identification is an issue (like airports) is reasonable enough, but being banned from wearing it in a public park seems a bit draconian.

No, I'm sorry, but I don't subscribe to the school of thought that argues that cultural integration means that incoming cultures can pick, choose and manipulate how they behave in a host country. What they do in their homes is their business, as long as it doesn't have a negative or intrusive impact on their neighbours. As far as I'm concerned, muslims in Europe can pray in whichever direction they wish, practice whatever their faith demands (within the law of their host nation) and eat food prepared in a way that is permitted/endorsed by their faith. But as soon as they step out in public, they are subject to the laws and overall culture of the country they're in. France has passed laws that stipulate that citizens are not allowed to go about in public with their face covered, and its citizens are legally bound to comply. Apart from its outlawing being a necessity in these more fractured times, in western society it's grossly impolite to go about in public with your face completely covered. If I were in a muslim country, which I have been, I would respect local customs, and have done. End Of.

Say what you like about France's supposedly deserved reputation for capitulation, but they're currently the only country in western Europe that is actively taking measures to curb islamic influence to the extent that it's checking the expanding influence of a religion that fundamentally clashes with the society it's attempting to impose itself on. I sincerely hope that Cameron and Merkel are watching today's events in France with interest.


P.s. I feel compelled to declare that I vehemently oppose the wearing of the full burka in public. It has no place in western society, and is in no way shape or form a religious requirement stated by the Qur'an.

 

[Sunni Man]

P.s. I feel compelled to declare that I vehemently oppose the wearing of the full burka in public. It has no place in western society, and is in no way shape or form a religious requirement stated by the Qur'an.

You are correct.

The burka is a cultural piece of clothing and is not Islamic or mandated by the Quran.

The veil has some basis in the Hadith for those who choose to wear it.

But in no way is the veil a required for Muslim women.

 

[manifold]

being banned from wearing it in a public park seems a bit draconian.

draconian?

hyperbole much?

 

[ekrem]

Apart from it's outlawing being a necessity in these more fractured times, in western society it's grossly impolite to go about in public with your face completly covered. If I were in a muslim country, which I have been, I would respect local customs, and have done. End Of.

There were regional elections (Département) in France in last week of March.
It was last election before presidential elections in next year.

Socialists got 36.2 %
Sarkozy got 18.6 %
LePen got 11.1 %
Kantonalwahlen in Frankreich: Sarkozys Partei erleidet schwere Pleite - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Politik

As it now stands, France will be ruled by a Socialist President next year and LePen is developing into a competition who achieves to steal votes from Sarkozy.

Ipsos-polling says, that Sarkozy will loose against LePen in 1st presidential run-off election and that LePen will be the candidate to run against the Socialist Candidate.
Nicolas Sarkozys Gegner heißt Marine Le Pen
It is the 4th consecutive election poll by different polling-companies who predict, that Sarkozy will loose.


Burka issue
Women in France who wear a burka are counted as 1.900 according to French Domestic Ministry. To another study they only count 376 women.
It's just a political maneuver to placate the rise of right in France.
The Roma also had to experience this.

 

[ekrem]

The UMP is suffering its lowest ever ratings, with predictions for the 2012 election placing Sarkozy behind both the socialist candidate (yet to be decided) and Marine Le Pen, leader of the far-right National Front (FN).

“From Sarkozy’s point of view, he probably thinks things can’t get any worse,” social and political researcher on France, Matthew Moran from King’s College London told FRANCE 24. “It’s likely he’s hoping that appealing to far-right voters will give him the boost he needs”.

FRANCE 24 - PM, party officials boycott Sarkozy's Islam debate

“The president is hunting on the extreme right margins,” says Pierre Haski, editor of Rue 89, an online daily and weekly magazine. “The debate over Islam is not interesting. It is a gimmick to show to National Front voters they can vote UMP.”

France's Sarkozy faces rifts on Islam debate - CSMonitor.com

Cheap politics.
Sarkozy is an attention-whore (Bruni) and will do whatever it takes to stay President, even if that means to bomb countries like Libya.

Having almost 6 Million Muslims coming from Maghreb, Sarkozy bombs N.Africa.
What a far-sighted politician.

 

[Jos]

 

[Sunni Man]

Burka issue
Women in France who wear a burka are counted as 1.900 according to French Domestic Ministry. To another study they only count 376 women.
It's just a political maneuver to placate the rise of right in France.
The Roma also had to experience this.

The French government claims that it is a security issue.

Yet, not one single felony related crime has ever been committed by a woman wearing a burka in France.

 

[tigerbob]

At least two women have been detained in France while wearing Islamic veils across their faces, after a law banning the garment in public came into force.

Police said they were held not because of their veils but for joining an unauthorised protest against the ban.

France is the first country in Europe to publicly ban a form of dress some Muslims regard as a religious duty.

Anyone caught breaking the law will be liable to a fine of 150 euros (£133; $217) and a citizenship course.

People forcing women to wear the veil face a much larger fine and a prison sentence of up to two years.

It was not clear whether the women detained at the protest would also be fined for their veils.

BBC News - Women in face veils detained as France enforces ban

Being required to remove a veil in an area where security / identification is an issue (like airports) is reasonable enough, but being banned from wearing it in a public park seems a bit draconian.

No, I'm sorry, but I don't subscribe to the school of thought that argues that cultural integration means that incoming cultures can pick, choose and manipulate how they behave in a host country. What they do in their homes is their business, as long as it doesn't have a negative or intrusive impact on their neighbours. As far as I'm concerned, muslims in Europe can pray in whichever direction they wish, practice whatever their faith demands (within the law of their host nation) and eat food prepared in a way that is permitted/endorsed by their faith. But as soon as they step out in public, they are subject to the laws and overall culture of the country they're in. France has passed laws that stipulate that citizens are not allowed to go about in public with their face covered, and its citizens are legally bound to comply. Apart from its outlawing being a necessity in these more fractured times, in western society it's grossly impolite to go about in public with your face completely covered. If I were in a muslim country, which I have been, I would respect local customs, and have done. End Of.

Say what you like about France's supposedly deserved reputation for capitulation, but they're currently the only country in western Europe that is actively taking measures to curb islamic influence to the extent that it's checking the expanding influence of a religion that fundamentally clashes with the society it's attempting to impose itself on. I sincerely hope that Cameron and Merkel are watching today's events in France with interest.


P.s. I feel compelled to declare that I vehemently oppose the wearing of the full burka in public. It has no place in western society, and is in no way shape or form a religious requirement stated by the Qur'an.

Interesting observations, and if I tried responding to it I'd probably end up in a wide ranging discussion about something for which I have only a passing interest, so I'm going to leave it alone.

Suffice to say that if we did discuss it, you would quite possibly find I'm not so far away from your position as you appear to think I am.

 

[tigerbob]

being banned from wearing it in a public park seems a bit draconian.

draconian?

hyperbole much?

sentence much?

 

[tigerbob]

Burka issue
Women in France who wear a burka are counted as 1.900 according to French Domestic Ministry. To another study they only count 376 women.
It's just a political maneuver to placate the rise of right in France.
The Roma also had to experience this.

The French government claims that it is a security issue.

Yet, not one single felony related crime has ever been committed by a woman wearing a burka in France.

Hence my earlier hyperbole.

 

[Grace]

being banned from wearing it in a public park seems a bit draconian.

draconian?

hyperbole much?

sentence much?

 

[manifold]

being banned from wearing it in a public park seems a bit draconian.

draconian?

hyperbole much?

sentence much?

Still not a rebuttal though.

 

[Si modo]

At least two women have been detained in France while wearing Islamic veils across their faces, after a law banning the garment in public came into force.

Police said they were held not because of their veils but for joining an unauthorised protest against the ban.

France is the first country in Europe to publicly ban a form of dress some Muslims regard as a religious duty.

Anyone caught breaking the law will be liable to a fine of 150 euros (£133; $217) and a citizenship course.

People forcing women to wear the veil face a much larger fine and a prison sentence of up to two years.

It was not clear whether the women detained at the protest would also be fined for their veils.

BBC News - Women in face veils detained as France enforces ban

Being required to remove a veil in an area where security / identification is an issue (like airports) is reasonable enough, but being banned from wearing it in a public park seems a bit draconian.

Not only that, but banning a protest in a public about it?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Burka issue
Women in France who wear a burka are counted as 1.900 according to French Domestic Ministry. To another study they only count 376 women.
It's just a political maneuver to placate the rise of right in France.
The Roma also had to experience this.

The French government claims that it is a security issue.

Yet, not one single felony related crime has ever been committed by a woman wearing a burka in France.

Except for Muslim women, in the US in most locals it is ILLEGAL to wear a mask covering your face with out a legal or medical requirement. Exception being Halloween.

 

[Si modo]

Burka issue
Women in France who wear a burka are counted as 1.900 according to French Domestic Ministry. To another study they only count 376 women.
It's just a political maneuver to placate the rise of right in France.
The Roma also had to experience this.

The French government claims that it is a security issue.

Yet, not one single felony related crime has ever been committed by a woman wearing a burka in France.

Except for Muslim women, in the US in most locals it is ILLEGAL to wear a mask covering your face with out a legal or medical requirement. Exception being Halloween.

Not necessarily. If the intent of covering one's face is to intimidate another and/or conceal one's identity in the commission of a crime or intimidation. that's true. I doubt that was the reason the women covered their faces. I'm pretty sure their reason was for cultural/religious reasons. That's allowed in most states here, likely all.

http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/mcs/maskcodes.html

 

[Sunni Man]

Except for Muslim women, in the US in most locals it is ILLEGAL to wear a mask covering your face with out a legal or medical requirement. Exception being Halloween.

A veil is not a mask.

 

[manifold]

Except for Muslim women, in the US in most locals it is ILLEGAL to wear a mask covering your face with out a legal or medical requirement. Exception being Halloween.

A veil is not a mask.

Yes it is.

 

[manifold]

Few people seem to have any problem with 'draconian' laws that require certain body parts remain covered in public. So what is so offensive about a law that requires certain body parts remain uncovered in public?

 

[Sunni Man]

Except for Muslim women, in the US in most locals it is ILLEGAL to wear a mask covering your face with out a legal or medical requirement. Exception being Halloween.

A veil is not a mask.

Yes it is.

No, it's a veil.

That's why the English language has two different words.

To describe to different items.