No men around, and you want a baby? Sleep with your dad!

[Hollie]

Hmmm...Hollie disappeared. Oh I think I found her!

That about sums it up. Stop feeding the trolls and the trolls go away to another outhouse where they can bother someone else on the shitter until they too say "The Jake's occupied...will be for some time"

Aw. You angry fundies are so cute when you're throwing juvenile tantrums.

 

[aris2chat]

Please ignore the fact that they had just witnessed fire coming down killing everyone they knew.

Perhaps they thought Lot was the last man standing?

Not that it matters. Please carry on with your mocking post.

why would that matter.

Besides the fact there is no evidence they thought they were the last humans standing. Zoar was a city and it was not destroyed, and that is where Lot and family went first.

19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

So Lot and family were safe in Zoar when Sodom was destroyed.

Okay.

So at least one man in Zoar to slip the daughters of Lot the Sausage.

But...


19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

Lot and his Daughters

And you pretend to have read the bible and presume to tell others what is means??

Go back to school

 

[JoeB131]

Well as I have stated, I endorse the view that the author was insulting the Ammorites and Moabites but calling them incestuous scum, but look at the last verse you posted. "19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth"

"There is not a man in the earth to come in unto us....." yet you state "Besides the fact there is no evidence they thought they were the last humans standing." It seems to me that the very scripture you quote contradicts your argument.

Except God didn't destroy Zoar, and there were people in Zoar... but that's really not the point, is it?

The story has a lot of mish-mashes of confusing text, like when it says that Lot's daughter's are virgins before he offers them up for gang rape, but then he tries to convince their husbands to flee the city with him.

On the MACRO element of the story, though, God burns women and children alive, but personally sends ANGELS down to save a creep who offers his daughters up for gang rape and then has drunken sex with them himself. These are the folks God HAD to save.

Something for Christians to keep in mind when they pray for little Billy's cancer to get better and he dies, anyway.

Except these Funditards think that God helps Tebow win football games while ignoring famines in Africa.

 

[JoeB131]

And you pretend to have read the bible and presume to tell others what is means??

Go back to school

Uh, yeah, I'm telling you exactly what it means. I just don't engage in the kind of pretzel logic we frequently see from apologists trying to reconcile Bronze Age Barbarism with modern sensibilities.

 

[Hollie]

Please ignore the fact that they had just witnessed fire coming down killing everyone they knew.

Perhaps they thought Lot was the last man standing?

Not that it matters. Please carry on with your mocking post.

why would that matter.

Besides the fact there is no evidence they thought they were the last humans standing. Zoar was a city and it was not destroyed, and that is where Lot and family went first.

19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

So Lot and family were safe in Zoar when Sodom was destroyed.

Okay.

So at least one man in Zoar to slip the daughters of Lot the Sausage.

But...


19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

Lot and his Daughters

And you pretend to have read the bible and presume to tell others what is means??

Go back to school

While the fable surrounding Lot, him boinking both his daughters, the gawds proceeding with another serial mass murder, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah all make for fun reading, we should remember that there is no conclusive evidence that those cities ever actually existed.

 

[aris2chat]

Please ignore the fact that they had just witnessed fire coming down killing everyone they knew.

Perhaps they thought Lot was the last man standing?

Not that it matters. Please carry on with your mocking post.

why would that matter.

Besides the fact there is no evidence they thought they were the last humans standing. Zoar was a city and it was not destroyed, and that is where Lot and family went first.

19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

So Lot and family were safe in Zoar when Sodom was destroyed.

Okay.

So at least one man in Zoar to slip the daughters of Lot the Sausage.

But...


19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

Lot and his Daughters

And you pretend to have read the bible and presume to tell others what is means??

Go back to school

While the fable surrounding Lot, him boinking both his daughters, the gawds proceeding with another serial mass murder, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah all make for fun reading, we should remember that there is no conclusive evidence that those cities ever actually existed.

Have Sodom and Gomorrah Been Discovered The Institute for Creation Research

 

[Bonzi]

Genesis 19:30-38


Lot and His Daughters

30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his nameMoab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Ben-ammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.



These are the values we should be living by? Incest?

Nope. The race that came from that was tormented. Just because it happened in the Bible doesn't mean it's appropriate or God ordained.
The lineage of Lot produced the Moabites and the children of Ammon, who would come to plague the Israelites both in war and in temptation to serve other god's.

 

[Hollie]

Please ignore the fact that they had just witnessed fire coming down killing everyone they knew.

Perhaps they thought Lot was the last man standing?

Not that it matters. Please carry on with your mocking post.

why would that matter.

Besides the fact there is no evidence they thought they were the last humans standing. Zoar was a city and it was not destroyed, and that is where Lot and family went first.

19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

So Lot and family were safe in Zoar when Sodom was destroyed.

Okay.

So at least one man in Zoar to slip the daughters of Lot the Sausage.

But...


19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

Lot and his Daughters

And you pretend to have read the bible and presume to tell others what is means??

Go back to school

While the fable surrounding Lot, him boinking both his daughters, the gawds proceeding with another serial mass murder, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah all make for fun reading, we should remember that there is no conclusive evidence that those cities ever actually existed.

Have Sodom and Gomorrah Been Discovered The Institute for Creation Research

The ICR? Lovely.

Encyclopedia of American Loons Search results for John d. Morris

 

[Moonglow]

Two nights in a row he didn't know what was happening because his daughters 'made' him drink wine (where did they get it all?)?

If passed out on alcohol, it becomes very difficult to believe you got it up, in, and got off.

I never had any problemo...

 

[presonorek]

Genesis 19:30-38

Lot and His Daughters

30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his nameMoab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Ben-ammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.



These are the values we should be living by? Incest?

Now that I breed chickens this passage of scripture makes a lot of sense to me. The chickens we eat are hybrids. I prefer to have hybrids in my flock because they are healthy. However, those hybrids are comprised of specific pure bred chickens. I want to know what type of mutt that I have so I have to start with purebred chickens. The meat chicken industry wants to know type of mutt that they are producing so they also have to start with purebred chickens. (I do have a point so bear with me.)

If you read the book of Leviticus you will see that the hybridization of livestock and produce is a forbidden husbandry practice. They even went as far as never mixing different types of thread. If you are a conspiracy theorist that believes the Israelites (or Jews) have the ambition of world domination as described in the Book of Isaiah then this makes complete sense. They want to be the profiteers by maintaining the purebreds to sell to the experimenting farmer. It is job security forever. For example: If the only two Ayam Cemani (extremely rare) chickens available within a thousand mile radius is a rooster and his two daughters then it is better to breed these chickens with the practice of incest than to let the potential profit of selling purebreds disappear forever. I wouldn't be afraid to take this to the highest extreme. If you believe that Israelites are the highest prized race of people and your people are about to go extinct then it is totally acceptable to breed with your dad in order to continue the Israelite race. This is only abhorrent to us because it isn't applicable to the world today. Remember Judaism and Islamic tradition thinks in terms of thousands of years instead of planning for the weekend. The writers of the book of Genesis had already heard legends or even experienced the extermination of entire tribes of peop: le. The writers of Genesis wanted the Israelite race to endure on this earth forever even if you are in a situation that appears hopeless. Yes. It's cool to breed with your dad if you are a female and your dad is the only male Israelite in existence. That scripture doesn't have applicability today. Stop making a big deal about it.

Note: I don't like to use the word Jew as a substitute for Israelite because I am convinced that they aren't the same thing. That's another topic of discussion. I just wanted you to know that you can use the terms interchangeable in the above post if it makes you feel more comfortable.

 

[presonorek]

What is the moral of the story of incest with drunken father and having children. Tell me ? Enlighten us to the morality of , getting your father so drunk to have sex with him and get PG. Please I will be waiting. Tell also why this is fine literature and not filth and porn, worst than porn , incest.

See my previous post. I tried to explain it the best that I could. I'm sure there are loads of scholars that have commented on this story.

 

[presonorek]

I think you are the clueless one. You have never read the OT or NT have you?

Yes. I have read the 1611 King James Version twice. I have read the New Testament a third time.

 

[Penelope]

I think you are the clueless one. You have never read the OT or NT have you?

Yes. I have read the 1611 King James Version twice. I have read the New Testament a third time.

I wasn't referring to you.
I guess we have to assume the boys they had then had sex with their aunts and reproduced and on an on till they got a tribe going. I guess this would be called a new cavemen tribe who became enemies of the incestuous Israelites. They either met another tribe and killed them or got along and combined.

Today there is not a pure Israelite, they all intermarried and had kids, if one believes EZRA, one book that is more believable than many other books. They have been intermarrying ever since in Europe and the US, well all over the globe.

I agree your right, all Israelites are not Jews and all Jews are not Israelites. I fail to understand present day Israel, as on one had they do not want orthodox Judaism to flourish yet they want Jews to marry Jews to have a race which is not a race, so they can call Israel a Jewish state.

Besides the point is the whole story stinks, Lot willing to give his daughters to the men, then we have to wonder why Lot didn't go find Abraham or vice versa.

PS: Now I have to wonder about chicken interbreeding.

 

[aris2chat]

Please ignore the fact that they had just witnessed fire coming down killing everyone they knew.

Perhaps they thought Lot was the last man standing?

Not that it matters. Please carry on with your mocking post.

why would that matter.

Besides the fact there is no evidence they thought they were the last humans standing. Zoar was a city and it was not destroyed, and that is where Lot and family went first.

19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

So Lot and family were safe in Zoar when Sodom was destroyed.

Okay.

So at least one man in Zoar to slip the daughters of Lot the Sausage.

But...


19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

Lot and his Daughters

And you pretend to have read the bible and presume to tell others what is means??

Go back to school

While the fable surrounding Lot, him boinking both his daughters, the gawds proceeding with another serial mass murder, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah all make for fun reading, we should remember that there is no conclusive evidence that those cities ever actually existed.

Have Sodom and Gomorrah Been Discovered The Institute for Creation Research

The ICR? Lovely.

Encyclopedia of American Loons Search results for John d. Morris

Lot and his Daughters
Genesis 19 31-35 Lot s Daughters Sleep With Their Father Pondering Scripture

 

[presonorek]

PS: Now I have to wonder about chicken interbreeding.

It is extremely common. It is especially common with rare breeds.

Perhaps the fable of Lot and his daughters was just used to reinforce proper farming practices under the Levitical Law. It was a metaphor or an illustration of what to do when all breeding resources have been exhausted.

The royal family in England commonly inbred to keep the kingdom from spreading to outsiders. Wealthy Plantation owners in the South married their cousin with the same motivation in mind. This is where the jokes originate about people from Alabama having sex with their cousin. This was fairly common. In societies the lower classes mimick the lower classes. It is likely that incest was common in the south in the 1700's and 1800's. This wasn't even that long ago. Only today do we find it "yucky". Just a few generations ago slavery and incest were considered normal here in the United States. People get their panties all up in a bunch over nothing. The traditions and beliefs of people had different customs than we do today. Why is that so earth shattering? If American culture has shifted in less then 200 years then why do we expect the culture of people 7000 miles away and 7000 years ago to be similar to ours. You are really making a big deal over nothing.

However, a note of irony: the Levitical law forbids incest and gives a very detailed description of the types of incest that are forbidden. The story of Lot and his daughters just serves as an emotional loophole for an Israelite to exercise in dire circumstances. Those dire circumstances aren't today. Chances are very high that if a modern person was stranded on a deserted island for 10+ years with a sibling, parent or child and both of you were of child bearing age incest would cross your mind. It wouldn't be motivated by sexual perversion but motivated by necessity. Honestly! It is completely silly to be making moral arguments for a situation like that. Those moral arguments can be made once you get into that situation. They don't need to be made in the midst of a modern society. Again. You are making a big deal over nothing.

 

[presonorek]

These are the values we should be living by? Incest?

Synthaholic,

Are you not interested in discussing this matter any more?

Your friend in conversation,

vasuderatorrent

P.S. You don't have to hide when people actually bring up points that you never considered. It's ok to discuss the issue further. This way we can all become wiser and more confident with our opinions.

 

[presonorek]

Incest is the essence of the Jesus and Mary storyline. Joseph, the alleged father of Jesus was 99 when he allegedly wed Mary who was 16. All the bridegroom stuff makes no sense unless in the context of the Oedipus complex. Jesus was 33 and Mary was 40? Houston we have a problem.

Would you mind telling us what you are talking about? I have read through the Bible twice. I don't recall any of this.

If you want to critique the Bible then try this:

The entire 1st Chapter of Matthew traces Joseph's lineage all the way back to Adam. Why does that matter if Joseph isn't Jesus's father?

 

[presonorek]

Sorry its has to be one of the most sick stories in the OT,

Are you messing around? Did you read what happened when Dinah was raped? Did you read what Saul ask David to do in order to marry his daughter? Did you read about Deborah in the book of Judges and how she killed the King? Did you read about Amnon and his sister Tamor in the book of Samuel? Did you read about Noah and the flood? (I have a hard time understanding why the story of Noah is such a cutsie wutsie kid's story.) People accuse American artist of utilizing the shock factor in order to gain an audience. I think Ancient Israelites were doing this a long time before Miley Cyrus. The Old Testament is chock full of juicy tales with a shocking story line. Those stories are even shocking by today's standards.

 

[presonorek]

tl;dr version: God works in mysterious, dickish ways. Who are we to second guess His decisions?

Humans! We are a species with a vast curiosity. We think more than any other creature on the planet. Of course we are going to second guess His decisions. Some of us just may not be brave enough to do it out loud.

 

[presonorek]

To me that defines you as a troller and not worthy of reading nor responding to your posts

Whoops! You responded to his post.