No charges for seller of gun used in killings

[airplanemechanic]

I have an idea. Make it illegal to BUY a firearm as a convicted felon. Don't EVER make it illegal to sell one.

Oh wait, already been done.

Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[007]

I have no problem with background checks between private individuals. I do have a problem that every one of those schemes has a gun registration component. That kills them with me.

Gun registration is an infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights and illegal.

It's a SLIGHT infringement if even that.

NO different than Voter ID laws in principle.

Wrong, there is only one reason for registration and that has been proven true through out history as well right here in the States.

I just showed you a perfectly realistic scenario where gun registration would not be part of background checks

Should we also start requiring registration for knives? Brass knuckles? Baseball bats? Ball peen hammers? When is it time to say enough is enough? Right after we've forced everyone in America to tell the government about every little thing they own that they can kill someone with? Where do you draw the line? You're just as dead if someone kills you with a knife as you are with a gun.

I don't get this willingness to be forced into revealing every little detail about your life and what you own to the government.

Should the people fear the government, or should the government fear the people?

If people were FORCED to register every one of their firearms, then that would be the final HUGE step closer to the government being able to CONFISCATE them, and if we look at history, history tells us that that usually hasn't ended well...

 

[Esmeralda]

If it had been a car used to plow into a group of pedestrians would the seller be responsible?

How about the store that sells rat poison bought and used to poison an entire first grade class?

If it had been a car used to plow into a group of pedestrians would the seller be responsible?

How about the store that sells rat poison bought and used to poison an entire first grade class?

Your examples are faulty reasoning. A car is not built to kill but to provide transportation. Rat poison is meant for rats. It is not at all the same thing as buying a gun. A gun is meant to kill, easily, quickly, impersonally, etc. You are trying to say that rat poison and cars are the same thing as a gun and that is not the case. These examples, in fact, are red herrings thrown in to detract from the real issue.

The real issue is that buying a gun has legal restrictions, such as a background check. Obviously, in this case there was no background check. Nothing was done to control who that gun went to. If there were strong restrictions in place when buying a gun, perhaps these innocent victims would still be alive.

 

[Esmeralda]

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

This is another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities are completely different issues. Race also has nothing to do with this. It's very amusing you bring it up as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

BTW, where did you learn to write? It should be "I mean, I'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in Chicago."

 

[007]

If it had been a car used to plow into a group of pedestrians would the seller be responsible?

How about the store that sells rat poison bought and used to poison an entire first grade class?

If it had been a car used to plow into a group of pedestrians would the seller be responsible?

How about the store that sells rat poison bought and used to poison an entire first grade class?

Your examples are faulty reasoning. A car is not built to kill but to provide transportation. Rat poison is meant for rats. It is not at all the same thing as buying a gun. A gun is meant to kill, easily, quickly, impersonally, etc. You are trying to say that rat poison and cars are the same thing as a gun and that is not the case. These examples, in fact, are red herrings thrown in to detract from the real issue.

The real issue is that buying a gun has legal restrictions, such as a background check. Obviously, in this case there was no background check. Nothing was done to control who that gun went to. If there were strong restrictions in place when buying a gun, perhaps these innocent victims would still be alive.

Again, because we KNOW that CRIMINALS will ALWAYS follow the LAW... right?

Why do you people keep peddling out the same old failed, debunked reasoning?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

Another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities is a completely different issue. Race also has nothing to do with this. Very amusing that you bring it us as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

Wait what? You're saying black deaths are somehow different than white ones?
Whatever happened to "Black Lives Matter" ?
And why pray tell does the op not post up about all the illegal guns held by the gang members in chicago? They would have ample material ......

Nothing but a gotcha thread....

 

[jon_berzerk]

If it had been a car used to plow into a group of pedestrians would the seller be responsible?

How about the store that sells rat poison bought and used to poison an entire first grade class?

If it had been a car used to plow into a group of pedestrians would the seller be responsible?

How about the store that sells rat poison bought and used to poison an entire first grade class?

Your examples are faulty reasoning. A car is not built to kill but to provide transportation. Rat poison is meant for rats. It is not at all the same thing as buying a gun. A gun is meant to kill, easily, quickly, impersonally, etc. You are trying to say that rat poison and cars are the same thing as a gun and that is not the case. These examples, in fact, are red herrings thrown in to detract from the real issue.

The real issue is that buying a gun has legal restrictions, such as a background check. Obviously, in this case there was no background check. Nothing was done to control who that gun went to. If there were strong restrictions in place when buying a gun, perhaps these innocent victims would still be alive.

Again, because we KNOW that CRIMINALS will ALWAYS follow the LAW... right?

Why do you people keep peddling out the same old failed, debunked reasoning?

because it is a mental illness

 

[Iceweasel]

Your examples are faulty reasoning. A car is not built to kill but to provide transportation. Rat poison is meant for rats. It is not at all the same thing as buying a gun. A gun is meant to kill, easily, quickly, impersonally, etc. You are trying to say that rat poison and cars are the same thing as a gun and that is not the case. These examples, in fact, are red herrings thrown in to detract from the real issue.

The real issue is that buying a gun has legal restrictions, such as a background check. Obviously, in this case there was no background check. Nothing was done to control who that gun went to. If there were strong restrictions in place when buying a gun, perhaps these innocent victims would still be alive.

Your reasoning is faulty. Guns aren't made to commit murder.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

Another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities is a completely different issue. Race also has nothing to do with this. Very amusing that you bring it us as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

Wait what? You're saying black deaths are somehow different than white ones?
Whatever happened to "Black Lives Matter" ?
And why pray tell does the op not post up about all the illegal guns held by the gang members in chicago? They would have ample material ......

Nothing but a gotcha thread....

talk about spreading guns illegally in this country

you have to look no further then this administration

with its ATF operation fast n furious

which is still getting people killed too this day

and will for years into the future

 

[Roadrunner]

Unless Virginia requires some spell check on personal sales of firearms they have nothing to charge the seller with.

Which is morally wrong. ALL gun sales should require a back ground check.

I know, I know, but just common decency demands it at this point, there's too many whack jobs out there and you can't always tell by looking at them

And of course, many people just don't care.

So if you sell your brother a firearm you should run a background check on him?

OH, HELL YEAH!!!!!

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

Another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities is a completely different issue. Race also has nothing to do with this. Very amusing that you bring it us as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

Wait what? You're saying black deaths are somehow different than white ones?
Whatever happened to "Black Lives Matter" ?
And why pray tell does the op not post up about all the illegal guns held by the gang members in chicago? They would have ample material ......

Nothing but a gotcha thread....

talk about spreading guns illegally in this country

you have to look no further then this administration

with its ATF operation fast n furious

which is still getting people killed too this day

and will for years into the future

But those are government guns...they're different somehow.

 

[Roadrunner]

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

Another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities is a completely different issue. Race also has nothing to do with this. Very amusing that you bring it us as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

Wait what? You're saying black deaths are somehow different than white ones?
Whatever happened to "Black Lives Matter" ?
And why pray tell does the op not post up about all the illegal guns held by the gang members in chicago? They would have ample material ......

Nothing but a gotcha thread....

BLACK LIVES MATTER(if a white guy takes them)

 

[Roadrunner]

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

Another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities is a completely different issue. Race also has nothing to do with this. Very amusing that you bring it us as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

Wait what? You're saying black deaths are somehow different than white ones?
Whatever happened to "Black Lives Matter" ?
And why pray tell does the op not post up about all the illegal guns held by the gang members in chicago? They would have ample material ......

Nothing but a gotcha thread....

talk about spreading guns illegally in this country

you have to look no further then this administration

with its ATF operation fast n furious

which is still getting people killed too this day

and will for years into the future

But those are government guns...they're different somehow.

Same old crap, like "they don't murder each other in Europe(if you don't count genocide, class war or ethnic cleansing)."

 

[jon_berzerk]

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

Another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities is a completely different issue. Race also has nothing to do with this. Very amusing that you bring it us as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

Wait what? You're saying black deaths are somehow different than white ones?
Whatever happened to "Black Lives Matter" ?
And why pray tell does the op not post up about all the illegal guns held by the gang members in chicago? They would have ample material ......

Nothing but a gotcha thread....

talk about spreading guns illegally in this country

you have to look no further then this administration

with its ATF operation fast n furious

which is still getting people killed too this day

and will for years into the future

But those are government guns...they're different somehow.

the prezbo never dreamed

that once in a thousand years he would get caught

on this scheme to attack legal firearm ownership

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

Another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities is a completely different issue. Race also has nothing to do with this. Very amusing that you bring it us as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

Wait what? You're saying black deaths are somehow different than white ones?
Whatever happened to "Black Lives Matter" ?
And why pray tell does the op not post up about all the illegal guns held by the gang members in chicago? They would have ample material ......

Nothing but a gotcha thread....

talk about spreading guns illegally in this country

you have to look no further then this administration

with its ATF operation fast n furious

which is still getting people killed too this day

and will for years into the future

But those are government guns...they're different somehow.

Same old crap, like "they don't murder each other in Europe(if you don't count genocide, class war or ethnic cleansing)."

Yeah...it's just like "guns make it to easy to commit suicide"!!! Forget about Japan and it's suicide rates! They mean nothing!

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

If it had been a car used to plow into a group of pedestrians would the seller be responsible?

How about the store that sells rat poison bought and used to poison an entire first grade class?

If it had been a car used to plow into a group of pedestrians would the seller be responsible?

How about the store that sells rat poison bought and used to poison an entire first grade class?

Your examples are faulty reasoning. A car is not built to kill but to provide transportation. Rat poison is meant for rats. It is not at all the same thing as buying a gun. A gun is meant to kill, easily, quickly, impersonally, etc. You are trying to say that rat poison and cars are the same thing as a gun and that is not the case. These examples, in fact, are red herrings thrown in to detract from the real issue.

The real issue is that buying a gun has legal restrictions, such as a background check. Obviously, in this case there was no background check. Nothing was done to control who that gun went to. If there were strong restrictions in place when buying a gun, perhaps these innocent victims would still be alive.

You do realize that there are uses for a gun besides killing people, right?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I have an idea. Make it illegal to BUY a firearm as a convicted felon. Don't EVER make it illegal to sell one.

Oh wait, already been done.

Nothing to see here, move along.

So you don't think selling a gun to a felon should be illegal eh?

That's stupid

Should we not charge liquor stores who sell to minors with a crime either?

 

[Esmeralda]

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

Another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities is a completely different issue. Race also has nothing to do with this. Very amusing that you bring it us as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

Wait what? You're saying black deaths are somehow different than white ones?
Whatever happened to "Black Lives Matter" ?
And why pray tell does the op not post up about all the illegal guns held by the gang members in chicago? They would have ample material ......

Nothing but a gotcha thread....

You don't understand using logical reasoning. Gang and drug warfare are different issues from the issue in the OP. Race is not at all the issue, so stop race baiting.

This thread is about restrictions on the sale of guns. Not about blacks. Not about gangs. Not about drug wars. Those are separate issues.

You don't know where criminals get guns. How they obtain them, whether they steal them or buy them from people who have stolen them.

It's not likely they have purchased them from ordinary people, as in the situation in the OP. It's more likely they have either stolen them or purchased them on some sort of criminal market completely outside the legal sale of guns. That is another issue altogether from implementing the legal sale of guns and having reasonable restrictions for that.

You are trying to deflect from the real subject.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

Another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities is a completely different issue. Race also has nothing to do with this. Very amusing that you bring it us as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

Wait what? You're saying black deaths are somehow different than white ones?
Whatever happened to "Black Lives Matter" ?
And why pray tell does the op not post up about all the illegal guns held by the gang members in chicago? They would have ample material ......

Nothing but a gotcha thread....

You don't understand using logical reasoning. Gang and drug warfare are different issues from the issue in the OP. Race is not at all the issue, so stop race baiting.

This thread is about restrictions on the sale of guns. Not about blacks. Not about gangs. Not about drug wars. Those are separate issues.

You don't know where criminals get guns. How they obtain them, whether they steal them or buy them from people who have stolen them.

It's not likely they have purchased them from ordinary people, as in the situation in the OP. It's more likely they have either stolen them or purchased them on some sort of criminal market completely outside the legal sale of guns. That is another issue altogether from implementing the legal sale of guns and having reasonable restrictions for that.

You are trying to deflect from the real subject.

Only when it's a white guy right?
I mean i'm sure I just missed all your threads about all those dead blacks in chicago.

Another red herring that has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Gang and drug warfare in the inner cities is a completely different issue. Race also has nothing to do with this. Very amusing that you bring it us as you conservatives are always saying it is the liberals who do all the race baiting. And here you are doing the race baiting.

Wait what? You're saying black deaths are somehow different than white ones?
Whatever happened to "Black Lives Matter" ?
And why pray tell does the op not post up about all the illegal guns held by the gang members in chicago? They would have ample material ......

Nothing but a gotcha thread....

You don't understand using logical reasoning. Gang and drug warfare are different issues from the issue in the OP. Race is not at all the issue, so stop race baiting.

This thread is about restrictions on the sale of guns. Not about blacks. Not about gangs. Not about drug wars. Those are separate issues.

You don't know where criminals get guns. How they obtain them, whether they steal them or buy them from people who have stolen them.

It's not likely they have purchased them from ordinary people, as in the situation in the OP. It's more likely they have either stolen them or purchased them on some sort of criminal market completely outside the legal sale of guns. That is another issue altogether from implementing the legal sale of guns and having reasonable restrictions for that.

You are trying to deflect from the real subject.

Oh I understand the situation perfectly.
We dont have gun law problems,we have a culture problem.
Talking about more restrictions is a waste of time. And America agrees...
Support for gun rights at highest point in two decades - Washington Times

There is even a surge in gun ownership in the black community. And I promise you it ain't the gangbangers buying the guns,it's the honest blacks who are sick of being victims.
Fix the culture in the inner cities and U.S. gun crimes would be among the lowest in the world.

 

[Roadrunner]

I have an idea. Make it illegal to BUY a firearm as a convicted felon. Don't EVER make it illegal to sell one.

Oh wait, already been done.

Nothing to see here, move along.

So you don't think selling a gun to a felon should be illegal eh?

That's stupid

Should we not charge liquor stores who sell to minors with a crime either?

Knowingly selling a gun to a felon is illegal.

That said, there is no requirement to do a background check.

When I sell at a gun show, to get rid of an extra gun, or to get cash for a new one, I always ask if the buyer is legally able to buy the gun.

If I detect something fishy, then I say, well, I have friend at a table that will do a background check.

I never have had anybody say they objected, but if they start to follow me to the table to do the check, I just sell it, like I can legally.

Never had anybody get all antsy and say no check either

My son ran a gun counter at a large sporting goods store, they could not get BATF to do anything when they denied a sale because they caught a GF buying a gun for a felon, or caught someone brazenly lying on the form.

Even when they got as far as submitting the form, and the check denied the sale, nothing was ever done.