New York Times: $15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business

[bripat9643]

You're deluded about the the cost of labor that goes into selling a Big Mack.

OK, smart guy, what's a Big Mac going to cost after these greedy, overpaid, low life workers get their way?

So you admit you just pulled that number out of your ass.

Minimum wage in California is $9 and hour - Quarter pounder with cheese is $4.85 there

Minimum hourly wage in Australia is $16.87 an hour- Quarter pounder with cheese is $4.95 there.

McDonald s Menu price list 2014 Victoria Australia Flickr - Photo Sharing
McDonalds Prices - Fast Food Menu Prices
california min wage - Google Search
australia minimum wage 2015 - Google Search

Australia has one minimum wage for adults and another for younger workers

For junior employees, the minimum rates are:
Under 16 years of age $5.87
At 16 years of age $7.55
At 17 years of age $9.22
At 18 years of age $10.90
At 19 years of age $13.17
At 20 years of age $15.59.

That is the wage that is required ONLY for first time workers who have never held a job before, once they have gone through training on the job they are given "awards" which makes their mandatory pay significantly HIGHER than what you have listed.

Prove it.

 

[SAYIT]

Considering what we know about the left, this theory sounds more plausible than the left's claim that it wants minimum wage workers to earn a "living wage."

New York Times 15 an Hour is Meant to Drive Fast Food Out of Business Red Statements​

As noted by the New York Post , the New York Times has let it slip that the real goal of the $15 dollar an hour wage is to drive cheap fast food restaurants out of business. And as they said:

“The restaurant industry . . . will not go down without a fight.”

But, I thought that all the businesses affected by the minimum wage were just greedy and could easily afford the wages they should have been paying all along? I guess that wasn’t true. That certainly wasn’t the case for Z Pizza in Seattle. Z Pizza employed 11 employees, who were convinced their lives would be better since they would now be making the astronomical sum of $15 an hour. The owner, Ritu Shah Burnham, tried everything. She laid off workers, cut hours and even quit paying herself a salary, but in the end, she was forced to close her doors. You see, while most businesses her size had six years before paying the $15, she had only two because she owns a franchise. She got nailed on Obamacare for the same reason.

Liberals in their infinite wisdom (cough cough) they decided that a small franchisee should be lumped together with all the the franchisees and company owned restaurants. To me, this is further proof that the goal is to destroy them. I mean, what difference is there between a franchise restaurant owner with 11 employees and any other pizza joint with 11 employees? This is Michelle Obama’s lunches for adults. The same liberals who demand the right to choose to kill innocent babies, is unwilling to give you the right to decide what to eat. ​

I suspect that fast food places will go to automated machines before they will fold. Raising minimum puts workers out of a job.

Either way, liberals win because they will have more government dependents, which seems to be what they desire. Even a minimum wage at $10 will still keep people below the poverty level and on welfare if they keep their jobs.

Once automation begins in earnest the jobs will be lost permanently and it's whose jobs that will be lost that is particularly galling. Most of our min wage earners are kids (part-time) just entering the job force, elderly (part-time) supplementing their retirement benefits, and 2nd jobbers (part time) supplementing their primary income.
The "concern" for them from our whiny, sniveling leftist cabal is ill-conceived and as phony as a $3 bill.

 

[Clementine]

Once automation begins in earnest the jobs will be lost permanently and it's whose jobs that will be lost that is particularly galling. Most of our min wage earners are kids (part-time) just entering the job force, elderly (part-time) supplementing their retirement benefits, and 2nd jobbers (part time) supplementing their primary income.
The "concern" for them from our whiny, sniveling leftist cabal is ill-conceived and as phony as a $3 bill.

You'd think the entire country relies on minimum wage jobs the way the left carries on. You are right about the jobs being meant for the young or the ones supplementing their income. When the main bread winner relies on a minimum wage job to support a family, something has gone wrong in their lives and increasing minimum isn't going to fix that. The liberals insist that these jobs should provide a living wage, but they were never meant for that.

 

[charwin95]

Loki from your post #98 and 99.
I've been running my business for 18 years my father run it for 35 years before me now my son as CEOs in last five years.
For decades I've known hundreds and hundreds of business owners and companies here in U.S. From aircraft mfr., to restaurants, hotels and many others. I don't even count foreign entities.
I will answer all your questions based from a "reality and facts" considering your not even a business owner.
Who determined the worth of an employee? The employer. Who else do you think? You?
I'm not talking about worth of a human being its the worth of the job. Employees disadvantage in salary negotiations. That is correct. If we hire an engineer we have our pay scale. We don't offer you more or less than that. Unless your specialty like walk on water. Then I'm willing to relocate you with housing. Aside from that no deal. It's unfair if we are paying our current eng. 125k then we offer you 150k that doesn't make sense.

Minimum wage increase to $15. The increase is incremental that take 3 to years to get there. I know several restaurant owners like Applebee's, tgif, olive g and others like in Seattle or Boston area. All business owners hate wage increases b/c it cut down the profits. Restaurants had increased prices just about every year at their own discretion. Did customers went away? No but profit increases.
People like you get pay increase every year. So what is the problem if these low wages people get small increases. Where was the last time m/w was increased? Can you live with minimum wage?
I do not believe for a fact that business will close bc of mw increase.
Case of Z Pizza in Seattle that's BS. Why is it that she is in trouble ( right away) when others are thriving? Did fox interview other pizza place in that area? It's impossible to point one pizza place as a symptom of deeper problem. Maybe bad service. I know a rest. that closed bc of bad service.

 

[LOki]

Loki from your post #98 and 99.
I've been running my business for 18 years my father run it for 35 years before me now my son as CEOs in last five years.

Congratulations to you all.

For decades I've known hundreds and hundreds of business owners and companies here in U.S. From aircraft mfr., to restaurants, hotels and many others. I don't even count foreign entities.

Thanks for sharing.

I will answer all your questions based from a "reality and facts" considering your not even a business owner.

That's fine. I don't go in much for arguments from authority.

Regardless, as a proponent for statutory minimum wage, I am skeptical that you'll answer any of my questions.

I'll remind you that the primary question posed to you folks is:

"What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"​

Who determined the worth of an employee? The employer. Who else do you think? You?

If you had read the posts you cite, you'd have read that I am not the arbiter of "worth" for anyone but myself, I do not believe that I have the moral authority to make such a determination for others.

For an employment arrangement to be morally valid, the employer and the employee must agree upon what the prospective work is worth.

Since you CLEARLY presume someone has the authority to determine worth for everyone, it is valid to ask you these questions: Who do you think should determine worth for everyone else? Upon what moral authority do base your choice?

I'm not talking about worth of a human being its the worth of the job.

Good. Because that is obviously not the question I asked.

Employees disadvantage in salary negotiations. That is correct.

If you're talking absolutes, you're talking nonsense.

Labor markets are dynamic and diverse. When labor is in shortage, employees have a negotiating advantage; when labor is abundant, employers have the advantage.

If we hire an engineer we have our pay scale. We don't offer you more or less than that. Unless your specialty like walk on water. Then I'm willing to relocate you with housing. Aside from that no deal. It's unfair if we are paying our current eng. 125k then we offer you 150k that doesn't make sense.

I have no problem with you volunteering to disadadvsntage yourself so. And I have no problem with employees choosing of their own volition to accept your terms.

I have no idea what point you're attempting to advance with this information.

Minimum wage increase to $15. The increase is incremental that take 3 to years to get there. I know several restaurant owners like Applebee's, tgif, olive g and others like in Seattle or Boston area.

CHRIST! Can't any of you get to your point in a straightforward manner?

All business owners hate wage increases b/c it cut down the profits.

No. No they don't. They hate COMPULSORY wage increases because they are unconnected to profitability. Sometimes, wage increases are a very good means to improve profits.

Restaurants had increased prices just about every year at their own discretion. Did customers went away? No but profit increases.

Whatever. Your point?

People like you get pay increase every year.

Presumptive, and wrong.

But please, do not let me stop you from getting to some kind of point.

So what is the problem if these low wages people get small increases.

I have no problem with people getting raises.

Don't tell me your entire effort here is just to construct some fatuous straw man to distract us all from the fact that you're not going to answer my question.

Where was the last time m/w was increased?

Not relevant.

Can you live with minimum wage?

Really not relevant.

I do not believe for a fact that business will close bc of mw increase.

So what? Really. SO WHAT?

Case of Z Pizza in Seattle that's BS. Why is it that she is in trouble ( right away) when others are thriving? Did fox interview other pizza place in that area? It's impossible to point one pizza place as a symptom of deeper problem. Maybe bad service. I know a rest. that closed bc of bad service.

Well, once more we have another proponent for statutory minimum wage who engages in distraction to avoid answering the straightforward question:

What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

 

[SAYIT]

Loki from your post #98 and 99.
I've been running my business for 18 years my father run it for 35 years before me now my son as CEOs in last five years.

Congratulations to you all.

For decades I've known hundreds and hundreds of business owners and companies here in U.S. From aircraft mfr., to restaurants, hotels and many others. I don't even count foreign entities.

Thanks for sharing.

I will answer all your questions based from a "reality and facts" considering your not even a business owner.

That's fine. I don't go in much for arguments from authority.

Who determined the worth of an employee? The employer. Who else do you think? You?

If you had read the posts you cite, you'd have read that I am not the arbiter of "worth" for anyone but myself, I do not believe that I have the moral authority to make such a determination for others.

For an employment arrangement to be morally valid, the employer and the employee must agree upon what the prospective work is worth.

I'm not talking about worth of a human being its the worth of the job.

Good. Because that is obviously not the question I asked.

Employees disadvantage in salary negotiations. That is correct.

If you're talking absolutes, you're talking nonsense.

Labor markets are dynamic and diverse. When labor is in shortage, employees have a negotiating advantage; when labor is abundant, employers have the advantage.

If we hire an engineer we have our pay scale. We don't offer you more or less than that. Unless your specialty like walk on water. Then I'm willing to relocate you with housing. Aside from that no deal. It's unfair if we are paying our current eng. 125k then we offer you 150k that doesn't make sense.

I have no problem with you volunteering to disadadvsntage yourself so. And I have no problem with employees choosing of their own volition to accept your terms.

I have no idea what point you're attempting to advance with this information.

Minimum wage increase to $15. The increase is incremental that take 3 to years to get there. I know several restaurant owners like Applebee's, tgif, olive g and others like in Seattle or Boston area.

CHRIST! Can't any of you get to a yourb point in a straightforward manner?

All business owners hate wage increases b/c it cut down the profits.

No. No they don't. They hate COMPULSORY wage increases because they are unconnected to profitability. Sometimes, wage increases are a very good means to improve profits.

Restaurants had increased prices just about every year at their own discretion. Did customers went away? No but profit increases.

Whatever. Your point?

People like you get pay increase every year.

Presumptive, and wrong.

But please, do not let me stop you from getting to some kind of point.

So what is the problem if these low wages people get small increases.

I have no problem with people getting raises.

Don't tell me your entire effort here is just to construct some fatuous straw man to distract us all from the fact that you're not going to answer my question.

Where was the last time m/w was increased?

Not relevant.

Can you live with minimum wage?

Really not relevant.

I do not believe for a fact that business will close bc of mw increase.

So what? Really. SO WHAT?

Case of Z Pizza in Seattle that's BS. Why is it that she is in trouble ( right away) when others are thriving? Did fox interview other pizza place in that area? It's impossible to point one pizza place as a symptom of deeper problem. Maybe bad service. I know a rest. that closed bc of bad service.

Well, once more we have another proponent for statutory minimum wage who engages in distraction to avoid answering the straightforward question:

What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You not only have the patience of Job, you have the unique ability to make some sense of Charwin's semiliterate screed.

 

[charwin95]

Loki from your post #98 and 99.
I've been running my business for 18 years my father run it for 35 years before me now my son as CEOs in last five years.

Congratulations to you all.

For decades I've known hundreds and hundreds of business owners and companies here in U.S. From aircraft mfr., to restaurants, hotels and many others. I don't even count foreign entities.

Thanks for sharing.

I will answer all your questions based from a "reality and facts" considering your not even a business owner.

That's fine. I don't go in much for arguments from authority.

Regardless, as a proponent for statutory minimum wage, I am skeptical that you'll answer any of my questions.

I'll remind you that the primary question posed to you folks is:

"What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"​

Who determined the worth of an employee? The employer. Who else do you think? You?

If you had read the posts you cite, you'd have read that I am not the arbiter of "worth" for anyone but myself, I do not believe that I have the moral authority to make such a determination for others.

For an employment arrangement to be morally valid, the employer and the employee must agree upon what the prospective work is worth.

Since you CLEARLY presume someone has the authority to determine worth for everyone, it is valid to ask you these questions: Who do you think should determine worth for everyone else? Upon what moral authority do base your choice?

I'm not talking about worth of a human being its the worth of the job.

Good. Because that is obviously not the question I asked.

Employees disadvantage in salary negotiations. That is correct.

If you're talking absolutes, you're talking nonsense.

Labor markets are dynamic and diverse. When labor is in shortage, employees have a negotiating advantage; when labor is abundant, employers have the advantage.

If we hire an engineer we have our pay scale. We don't offer you more or less than that. Unless your specialty like walk on water. Then I'm willing to relocate you with housing. Aside from that no deal. It's unfair if we are paying our current eng. 125k then we offer you 150k that doesn't make sense.

I have no problem with you volunteering to disadadvsntage yourself so. And I have no problem with employees choosing of their own volition to accept your terms.

I have no idea what point you're attempting to advance with this information.

Minimum wage increase to $15. The increase is incremental that take 3 to years to get there. I know several restaurant owners like Applebee's, tgif, olive g and others like in Seattle or Boston area.

CHRIST! Can't any of you get to your point in a straightforward manner?

All business owners hate wage increases b/c it cut down the profits.

No. No they don't. They hate COMPULSORY wage increases because they are unconnected to profitability. Sometimes, wage increases are a very good means to improve profits.

Restaurants had increased prices just about every year at their own discretion. Did customers went away? No but profit increases.

Whatever. Your point?

People like you get pay increase every year.

Presumptive, and wrong.

But please, do not let me stop you from getting to some kind of point.

So what is the problem if these low wages people get small increases.

I have no problem with people getting raises.

Don't tell me your entire effort here is just to construct some fatuous straw man to distract us all from the fact that you're not going to answer my question.

Where was the last time m/w was increased?

Not relevant.

Can you live with minimum wage?

Really not relevant.

I do not believe for a fact that business will close bc of mw increase.

So what? Really. SO WHAT?

Case of Z Pizza in Seattle that's BS. Why is it that she is in trouble ( right away) when others are thriving? Did fox interview other pizza place in that area? It's impossible to point one pizza place as a symptom of deeper problem. Maybe bad service. I know a rest. that closed bc of bad service.

Well, once more we have another proponent for statutory minimum wage who engages in distraction to avoid answering the straightforward question:

What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I'm giving you an examples based from a decades and reality of business experience NOT from a couple of jobs you had.
ALL business owners hate wage increases it doesn't matter what kind of wage increases mandatory or not. Your making a statement considering you don't even own one.
Labor markets are dynamic and diverse. For you but It's far simpler than that from my level. If we follow your ANALOGY then the whole world pay scale is out of wack. Again as example so YOU understand, currently there is a shortage of commercial airline pilots. It doesn't mean they pay them higher than their market value. This is based from a pilots that I knew.
ALL applicants has the option to negotiate but we dictate the min/max we offer based from what is your worth to us and your market value.
Main topic of this post is Minimum Wage isn't it? Why I tried to share my point about mw increase. Not interested, ignore.

Your question. Who do you think should determine the worth of every one else? What moral authority base your choice? Employers has the moral authority to determine what an employee is worth. That is based from calculations and series of questions plus market research is where we set our pay scale thus employee worth. This is business.
Your question is a joke. It's like asking me who determined the price a pound of beef in groceries and what moral authority..

 

[LOki]

Loki from your post #98 and 99.
I've been running my business for 18 years my father run it for 35 years before me now my son as CEOs in last five years.

Congratulations to you all.

For decades I've known hundreds and hundreds of business owners and companies here in U.S. From aircraft mfr., to restaurants, hotels and many others. I don't even count foreign entities.

Thanks for sharing.

I will answer all your questions based from a "reality and facts" considering your not even a business owner.

That's fine. I don't go in much for arguments from authority.

Regardless, as a proponent for statutory minimum wage, I am skeptical that you'll answer any of my questions.

I'll remind you that the primary question posed to you folks is:

"What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"​

Who determined the worth of an employee? The employer. Who else do you think? You?

If you had read the posts you cite, you'd have read that I am not the arbiter of "worth" for anyone but myself, I do not believe that I have the moral authority to make such a determination for others.

For an employment arrangement to be morally valid, the employer and the employee must agree upon what the prospective work is worth.

Since you CLEARLY presume someone has the authority to determine worth for everyone, it is valid to ask you these questions: Who do you think should determine worth for everyone else? Upon what moral authority do base your choice?

I'm not talking about worth of a human being its the worth of the job.

Good. Because that is obviously not the question I asked.

Employees disadvantage in salary negotiations. That is correct.

If you're talking absolutes, you're talking nonsense.

Labor markets are dynamic and diverse. When labor is in shortage, employees have a negotiating advantage; when labor is abundant, employers have the advantage.

If we hire an engineer we have our pay scale. We don't offer you more or less than that. Unless your specialty like walk on water. Then I'm willing to relocate you with housing. Aside from that no deal. It's unfair if we are paying our current eng. 125k then we offer you 150k that doesn't make sense.

I have no problem with you volunteering to disadadvsntage yourself so. And I have no problem with employees choosing of their own volition to accept your terms.

I have no idea what point you're attempting to advance with this information.

Minimum wage increase to $15. The increase is incremental that take 3 to years to get there. I know several restaurant owners like Applebee's, tgif, olive g and others like in Seattle or Boston area.

CHRIST! Can't any of you get to your point in a straightforward manner?

All business owners hate wage increases b/c it cut down the profits.

No. No they don't. They hate COMPULSORY wage increases because they are unconnected to profitability. Sometimes, wage increases are a very good means to improve profits.

Restaurants had increased prices just about every year at their own discretion. Did customers went away? No but profit increases.

Whatever. Your point?

People like you get pay increase every year.

Presumptive, and wrong.

But please, do not let me stop you from getting to some kind of point.

So what is the problem if these low wages people get small increases.

I have no problem with people getting raises.

Don't tell me your entire effort here is just to construct some fatuous straw man to distract us all from the fact that you're not going to answer my question.

Where was the last time m/w was increased?

Not relevant.

Can you live with minimum wage?

Really not relevant.

I do not believe for a fact that business will close bc of mw increase.

So what? Really. SO WHAT?

Case of Z Pizza in Seattle that's BS. Why is it that she is in trouble ( right away) when others are thriving? Did fox interview other pizza place in that area? It's impossible to point one pizza place as a symptom of deeper problem. Maybe bad service. I know a rest. that closed bc of bad service.

Well, once more we have another proponent for statutory minimum wage who engages in distraction to avoid answering the straightforward question:

What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I'm giving you an examples based from a decades and reality of business experience NOT from a couple of jobs you had.

Your presumption is retarded, and your anecdote means nothing.

ALL business owners hate wage increases it doesn't matter what kind of wage increases mandatory or not. Your making a statement considering you don't even own one.

Both the assertion AND the presumption asserted here are baseless and retarded.

You are nothing if not consistent.

Labor markets are dynamic and diverse. For you but It's far simpler than that from my level. If we follow your ANALOGY then the whole world pay scale is out of wack.

You have no idea what you're talking about; I offered up no analogy.

Again as example so YOU understand, currently there is a shortage of commercial airline pilots. It doesn't mean they pay them higher than their market value.

I said nothing different; of course their wages are subject to market forces. What's wrong with you?

This is based from a pilots that I knew.

How tragic for them.

ALL applicants has the option to negotiate but we dictate the min/max we offer based from what is your worth to us and your market value.

So what?

Main topic of this post is Minimum Wage isn't it? Why I tried to share my point about mw increase. Not interested, ignore.

Thanks for sharing, you're clearly a loon.

Your question. Who do you think should determine the worth of every one else? What moral authority base your choice? Employers has the moral authority to determine what an employee is worth.

Upon what moral principle are employers the sole arbiter of what other people's work is worth?

That is based from calculations and series of questions plus market research is where we set our pay scale thus employee worth. This is business.

Of course you have the moral authority to determine what the work you need done is worth... the question is what by moral authority do you determine what the work of others is worth to each other.

You know, like the case of statutory minimum wage.

Your question is a joke. It's like asking me who determined the price a pound of beef in groceries and what moral authority..

It's not a joke, and you're not a businessman if you think so. It may be the most serious question.

 

[charwin95]

Loki from your post #98 and 99.
I've been running my business for 18 years my father run it for 35 years before me now my son as CEOs in last five years.

Congratulations to you all.

For decades I've known hundreds and hundreds of business owners and companies here in U.S. From aircraft mfr., to restaurants, hotels and many others. I don't even count foreign entities.

Thanks for sharing.

I will answer all your questions based from a "reality and facts" considering your not even a business owner.

That's fine. I don't go in much for arguments from authority.

Regardless, as a proponent for statutory minimum wage, I am skeptical that you'll answer any of my questions.

I'll remind you that the primary question posed to you folks is:

"What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"​

Who determined the worth of an employee? The employer. Who else do you think? You?

If you had read the posts you cite, you'd have read that I am not the arbiter of "worth" for anyone but myself, I do not believe that I have the moral authority to make such a determination for others.

For an employment arrangement to be morally valid, the employer and the employee must agree upon what the prospective work is worth.

Since you CLEARLY presume someone has the authority to determine worth for everyone, it is valid to ask you these questions: Who do you think should determine worth for everyone else? Upon what moral authority do base your choice?

I'm not talking about worth of a human being its the worth of the job.

Good. Because that is obviously not the question I asked.

Employees disadvantage in salary negotiations. That is correct.

If you're talking absolutes, you're talking nonsense.

Labor markets are dynamic and diverse. When labor is in shortage, employees have a negotiating advantage; when labor is abundant, employers have the advantage.

If we hire an engineer we have our pay scale. We don't offer you more or less than that. Unless your specialty like walk on water. Then I'm willing to relocate you with housing. Aside from that no deal. It's unfair if we are paying our current eng. 125k then we offer you 150k that doesn't make sense.

I have no problem with you volunteering to disadadvsntage yourself so. And I have no problem with employees choosing of their own volition to accept your terms.

I have no idea what point you're attempting to advance with this information.

Minimum wage increase to $15. The increase is incremental that take 3 to years to get there. I know several restaurant owners like Applebee's, tgif, olive g and others like in Seattle or Boston area.

CHRIST! Can't any of you get to your point in a straightforward manner?

All business owners hate wage increases b/c it cut down the profits.

No. No they don't. They hate COMPULSORY wage increases because they are unconnected to profitability. Sometimes, wage increases are a very good means to improve profits.

Restaurants had increased prices just about every year at their own discretion. Did customers went away? No but profit increases.

Whatever. Your point?

People like you get pay increase every year.

Presumptive, and wrong.

But please, do not let me stop you from getting to some kind of point.

So what is the problem if these low wages people get small increases.

I have no problem with people getting raises.

Don't tell me your entire effort here is just to construct some fatuous straw man to distract us all from the fact that you're not going to answer my question.

Where was the last time m/w was increased?

Not relevant.

Can you live with minimum wage?

Really not relevant.

I do not believe for a fact that business will close bc of mw increase.

So what? Really. SO WHAT?

Case of Z Pizza in Seattle that's BS. Why is it that she is in trouble ( right away) when others are thriving? Did fox interview other pizza place in that area? It's impossible to point one pizza place as a symptom of deeper problem. Maybe bad service. I know a rest. that closed bc of bad service.

Well, once more we have another proponent for statutory minimum wage who engages in distraction to avoid answering the straightforward question:

What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I'm giving you an examples based from a decades and reality of business experience NOT from a couple of jobs you had.

Your presumption is retarded, and your anecdote means nothing.

ALL business owners hate wage increases it doesn't matter what kind of wage increases mandatory or not. Your making a statement considering you don't even own one.

Both the assertion AND the presumption asserted here are baseless and retarded.

You are nothing if not consistent.

Labor markets are dynamic and diverse. For you but It's far simpler than that from my level. If we follow your ANALOGY then the whole world pay scale is out of wack.

You have no idea what you're talking about; I offered up no analogy.

Again as example so YOU understand, currently there is a shortage of commercial airline pilots. It doesn't mean they pay them higher than their market value.

I said nothing different; of course their wages are subject to market forces. What's wrong with you?

This is based from a pilots that I knew.

How tragic for them.

ALL applicants has the option to negotiate but we dictate the min/max we offer based from what is your worth to us and your market value.

So what?

Main topic of this post is Minimum Wage isn't it? Why I tried to share my point about mw increase. Not interested, ignore.

Thanks for sharing, you're clearly a loon.

Your question. Who do you think should determine the worth of every one else? What moral authority base your choice? Employers has the moral authority to determine what an employee is worth.

Upon what moral principle are employers the sole arbiter of what other people's work is worth?

That is based from calculations and series of questions plus market research is where we set our pay scale thus employee worth. This is business.

Of course you have the moral authority to determine what the work you need done is worth... the question is what by moral authority do you determine what the work of others is worth to each other.

You know, like the case of statutory minimum wage.

Your question is a joke. It's like asking me who determined the price a pound of beef in groceries and what moral authority..

It's not a joke, and you're not a businessman if you think so. It may be the most serious question.

ROTFL from all your comments.
Your question is one of the most stupid question I encountered in the internet.
You are telling us your opinion based from your own low experience, or none or even had a job. That's ok kid I understand someday you grow up and get some real experience.

 

[francoHFW]

Why do NZ and Australia have $15+ minimum wages and everything it just spiffy, hater dupes?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Why do NZ and Australia have $15+ minimum wages and everything it just spiffy, hater dupes?

Oh really now?

Australian unemployment levels continue to rise - World Socialist Web Site

 

[Noomi]

Typical greedy Yanks worrying that they will be forced to close up shop if they had to pay their employes a decent wage. Get over yourselves.

 

[Noomi]

Why do NZ and Australia have $15+ minimum wages and everything it just spiffy, hater dupes?

The Yanks think that if a McDonalds worker was paid $15 an hour, the cost of a Big Mac would go up to around $90.

A Big Mac (on its own) here is around $5.15, depending what store you visit.

And I get paid $19.75 per hour., plus I get one day annual leave per month, and sick leave on top of that. Suck on that, conservatives.

 

[LOki]

Loki from your post #98 and 99.
I've been running my business for 18 years my father run it for 35 years before me now my son as CEOs in last five years.

Congratulations to you all.

For decades I've known hundreds and hundreds of business owners and companies here in U.S. From aircraft mfr., to restaurants, hotels and many others. I don't even count foreign entities.

Thanks for sharing.

I will answer all your questions based from a "reality and facts" considering your not even a business owner.

That's fine. I don't go in much for arguments from authority.

Regardless, as a proponent for statutory minimum wage, I am skeptical that you'll answer any of my questions.

I'll remind you that the primary question posed to you folks is:

"What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"​

Who determined the worth of an employee? The employer. Who else do you think? You?

If you had read the posts you cite, you'd have read that I am not the arbiter of "worth" for anyone but myself, I do not believe that I have the moral authority to make such a determination for others.

For an employment arrangement to be morally valid, the employer and the employee must agree upon what the prospective work is worth.

Since you CLEARLY presume someone has the authority to determine worth for everyone, it is valid to ask you these questions: Who do you think should determine worth for everyone else? Upon what moral authority do base your choice?

I'm not talking about worth of a human being its the worth of the job.

Good. Because that is obviously not the question I asked.

Employees disadvantage in salary negotiations. That is correct.

If you're talking absolutes, you're talking nonsense.

Labor markets are dynamic and diverse. When labor is in shortage, employees have a negotiating advantage; when labor is abundant, employers have the advantage.

If we hire an engineer we have our pay scale. We don't offer you more or less than that. Unless your specialty like walk on water. Then I'm willing to relocate you with housing. Aside from that no deal. It's unfair if we are paying our current eng. 125k then we offer you 150k that doesn't make sense.

I have no problem with you volunteering to disadadvsntage yourself so. And I have no problem with employees choosing of their own volition to accept your terms.

I have no idea what point you're attempting to advance with this information.

Minimum wage increase to $15. The increase is incremental that take 3 to years to get there. I know several restaurant owners like Applebee's, tgif, olive g and others like in Seattle or Boston area.

CHRIST! Can't any of you get to your point in a straightforward manner?

All business owners hate wage increases b/c it cut down the profits.

No. No they don't. They hate COMPULSORY wage increases because they are unconnected to profitability. Sometimes, wage increases are a very good means to improve profits.

Restaurants had increased prices just about every year at their own discretion. Did customers went away? No but profit increases.

Whatever. Your point?

People like you get pay increase every year.

Presumptive, and wrong.

But please, do not let me stop you from getting to some kind of point.

So what is the problem if these low wages people get small increases.

I have no problem with people getting raises.

Don't tell me your entire effort here is just to construct some fatuous straw man to distract us all from the fact that you're not going to answer my question.

Where was the last time m/w was increased?

Not relevant.

Can you live with minimum wage?

Really not relevant.

I do not believe for a fact that business will close bc of mw increase.

So what? Really. SO WHAT?

Case of Z Pizza in Seattle that's BS. Why is it that she is in trouble ( right away) when others are thriving? Did fox interview other pizza place in that area? It's impossible to point one pizza place as a symptom of deeper problem. Maybe bad service. I know a rest. that closed bc of bad service.

Well, once more we have another proponent for statutory minimum wage who engages in distraction to avoid answering the straightforward question:

What is your objection to basing a worker's wage solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I'm giving you an examples based from a decades and reality of business experience NOT from a couple of jobs you had.

Your presumption is retarded, and your anecdote means nothing.

ALL business owners hate wage increases it doesn't matter what kind of wage increases mandatory or not. Your making a statement considering you don't even own one.

Both the assertion AND the presumption asserted here are baseless and retarded.

You are nothing if not consistent.

Labor markets are dynamic and diverse. For you but It's far simpler than that from my level. If we follow your ANALOGY then the whole world pay scale is out of wack.

You have no idea what you're talking about; I offered up no analogy.

Again as example so YOU understand, currently there is a shortage of commercial airline pilots. It doesn't mean they pay them higher than their market value.

I said nothing different; of course their wages are subject to market forces. What's wrong with you?

This is based from a pilots that I knew.

How tragic for them.

ALL applicants has the option to negotiate but we dictate the min/max we offer based from what is your worth to us and your market value.

So what?

Main topic of this post is Minimum Wage isn't it? Why I tried to share my point about mw increase. Not interested, ignore.

Thanks for sharing, you're clearly a loon.

Your question. Who do you think should determine the worth of every one else? What moral authority base your choice? Employers has the moral authority to determine what an employee is worth.

Upon what moral principle are employers the sole arbiter of what other people's work is worth?

That is based from calculations and series of questions plus market research is where we set our pay scale thus employee worth. This is business.

Of course you have the moral authority to determine what the work you need done is worth... the question is what by moral authority do you determine what the work of others is worth to each other.

You know, like the case of statutory minimum wage.

Your question is a joke. It's like asking me who determined the price a pound of beef in groceries and what moral authority..

It's not a joke, and you're not a businessman if you think so. It may be the most serious question.

ROTFL from all your comments.
Your question is one of the most stupid question I encountered in the internet.
You are telling us your opinion based from your own low experience, or none or even had a job. That's ok kid I understand someday you grow up and get some real experience.

Some one who has had 1 job that he got from his dad should be a little less smug, Pumpkin.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Why do NZ and Australia have $15+ minimum wages and everything it just spiffy, hater dupes?

The Yanks think that if a McDonalds worker was paid $15 an hour, the cost of a Big Mac would go up to around $90.

A Big Mac (on its own) here is around $5.15, depending what store you visit.

And I get paid $19.75 per hour., plus I get one day annual leave per month, and sick leave on top of that. Suck on that, conservatives.

Hey noomi have not seen you post recently, glad to hear things still going well for you

 

[francoHFW]

Why do NZ and Australia have $15+ minimum wages and everything it just spiffy, hater dupes?

Oh really now?

Australian unemployment levels continue to rise - World Socialist Web Site

Has to do with falling coal prices, not this...So why hasn't their economy collapsed from happy people lol?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Why do NZ and Australia have $15+ minimum wages and everything it just spiffy, hater dupes?

Oh really now?

Australian unemployment levels continue to rise - World Socialist Web Site

Has to do with falling coal prices, not this...So why hasn't their economy collapsed from happy people lol?

lmao made you look it up

 

[francoHFW]

I'm always fact checking- you ought to try it some time...

 

[SAYIT]

Typical greedy Yanks worrying that they will be forced to close up shop if they had to pay their employes a decent wage. Get over yourselves.

Silly presumptions. American biz owners, like those worldwide, must operate at a profit or lose their biz. We pay our people what the market for labor requires for the job and if we can't make money at that rate, we close up.

 

[francoHFW]

Typical greedy Yanks worrying that they will be forced to close up shop if they had to pay their employes a decent wage. Get over yourselves.

Silly presumptions. American biz owners, like those worldwide, must operate at a profit or lose their biz. We pay our people what the market for labor requires for the job and if we can't make money at that rate, we close up.

You're cheap, shortsighted, brainwashed Reaganist bastids that are turning us into a 3rd world oligarchy, you mean. Your chumps' run is about over however. It's getting so obvious even the good old, careless, misinformed American voter is getting up on his hind legs and voting DEM. Except pure hater dupes of greedy idiot billionaire Pubs, of course. see sig.