New York, New York

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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Pittsburgh
Over the past couple years I have made an informal, half-assed study of NYC, based on three personal visits spanning 9-10 days (depending on how you count), reading New York newspapers, and talking to locals. I believe that all Americans should "understand" NYC, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles, in the same way that we should understand the Constitution, because those cities are so important to the culture of the country (I'm being generous here).

For what it's worth, some good things about NYC:

It has incomparable opportunities to enjoy American culture and entertainment. Whether your passion is music, graphic arts, theater/film, sports (both spectator and participating), food, literature, or architecture, there is simply no place else that has New York's resources. As they used to say, "Enjoy." If you can't Enjoy in NYC there is something wrong with YOU.

While exploiting New York's mass transit resources can be trying at times, you can get anywhere in the five boroughs inexpensively and in a "reasonable" time. And the taxis and Ubers are surprisingly reasonable, compared to some other big cities around the world.

The neighborhoods are fabulous. No matter what sort of community you want to live in - ethnic, age based, interest based, whatever - you can find it in New York. I personally say, to hell with the "melting pot" metaphor; New York is a mosaic of cultures that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.

From what I saw, the NYPD is doing a pretty good job.

The amount of green space, parks, athletic venues, and running/walking/biking paths is amazing. You could take a different path every week for a year - and that's dedicated pathways, not on city streets.

But New York has some serious, serious problems.

The real estate market is much more fcuked up than anyone is willing to admit. Apartments are grotesquely over-priced, whether you are talking about rentals or condo/coop purchases. With AT LEAST 50% of the "white collar" world never going back to their respective offices, who do they think will be lining up to pay $4,000/month for a crappy little apartment in Manhattan? It cannot last. And the office vacancy rate is - to be honest - at least 50%, Most large employers are catatonically uncertain about where to go from here. Their most valuable employees will tell them to go fcuk themselves if they are ordered back to their expensive offices - which are now sitting empty, though rented. Again, the status quo cannot last.

Government employees (including employees of the scores of "authorities") are bankrupting the city, in several different ways. The wages, benefits, and retirement programs are simply unsustainable, even with massive state and federal help. It is impossible to pin down exactly, but I've heard it estimated that fully one-fourth of the New York population is either paid or supported with public funds. In addition, the NYC bureaucracy is the most obstructive web of interference since the fall of the Soviet Union. To illustrate the point, it took TEN YEARS simply to get the permitting for the building that replaced the WTC. In mass transit circles, it is known that building a subway line in New York is at least twice as much per kilometer as anyplace else in the world - including London, Paris, Singapore, etc.

Worst of all, unless you are one of the fortunate ones who has latched on to some sort of massive revenue stream, the cost of housing is simply crippling (while everything else is also quite expensive). If you are a working-class person without some family-based housing advantage, you will be living in a space that would simply be unacceptable for someone at a comparable economic stratum, anywhere else in the country.

Bottom line: there are a lot of people who are thriving in New York, but how they manage to do it is a mystery to me. I will only go back if I can manage to do it on an expense account, which is unlikely since I'm retired.
 
Being a guest and seeing something once or twice doesn't cut it.

If you don't live there, you don't know whats going on. It's like all these fuckers that think open borders is a GREAT thing.............move those fuckers down to a border state and see how long they keep that mentality!!!
 
I grew up in the Bronx, turned down a chance to go to Bronx High School of Science and instead found myself being bussed to Stevenson HS in the South Bronx in the mid 1970's. Worked and lived in Manhattan from 1982 to 1990, moved to Bayside for 10 years and then to Westchester County.

The OP has a lot of it right, NYC is a tale of Two Cities.

There's some incredible energy source powering the people in the city, something in the bedrock.

To me, it's like the Grand Canyon, you can listen to what other people tell you about it, or go experience it for yourself.
 
New York, like Los Angeles, is one of those cities where 22 year-olds go there with nothing but their clothes and sleep in their car for a week or two until they find work. And of course, 90% of 22 year-olds who do that don't make it past 2 weeks. But they try. And that's the thing. It represents big dreams.

If I can make it there, I can make it anywhere,
it's up to you, New York, New Yooooork!
 
Over the past couple years I have made an informal, half-assed study of NYC, based on three personal visits spanning 9-10 days (depending on how you count), reading New York newspapers, and talking to locals. I believe that all Americans should "understand" NYC, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles, in the same way that we should understand the Constitution, because those cities are so important to the culture of the country (I'm being generous here).

For what it's worth, some good things about NYC:

It has incomparable opportunities to enjoy American culture and entertainment. Whether your passion is music, graphic arts, theater/film, sports (both spectator and participating), food, literature, or architecture, there is simply no place else that has New York's resources. As they used to say, "Enjoy." If you can't Enjoy in NYC there is something wrong with YOU.

While exploiting New York's mass transit resources can be trying at times, you can get anywhere in the five boroughs inexpensively and in a "reasonable" time. And the taxis and Ubers are surprisingly reasonable, compared to some other big cities around the world.

The neighborhoods are fabulous. No matter what sort of community you want to live in - ethnic, age based, interest based, whatever - you can find it in New York. I personally say, to hell with the "melting pot" metaphor; New York is a mosaic of cultures that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.

From what I saw, the NYPD is doing a pretty good job.

The amount of green space, parks, athletic venues, and running/walking/biking paths is amazing. You could take a different path every week for a year - and that's dedicated pathways, not on city streets.

But New York has some serious, serious problems.

The real estate market is much more fcuked up than anyone is willing to admit. Apartments are grotesquely over-priced, whether you are talking about rentals or condo/coop purchases. With AT LEAST 50% of the "white collar" world never going back to their respective offices, who do they think will be lining up to pay $4,000/month for a crappy little apartment in Manhattan? It cannot last. And the office vacancy rate is - to be honest - at least 50%, Most large employers are catatonically uncertain about where to go from here. Their most valuable employees will tell them to go fcuk themselves if they are ordered back to their expensive offices - which are now sitting empty, though rented. Again, the status quo cannot last.

Government employees (including employees of the scores of "authorities") are bankrupting the city, in several different ways. The wages, benefits, and retirement programs are simply unsustainable, even with massive state and federal help. It is impossible to pin down exactly, but I've heard it estimated that fully one-fourth of the New York population is either paid or supported with public funds. In addition, the NYC bureaucracy is the most obstructive web of interference since the fall of the Soviet Union. To illustrate the point, it took TEN YEARS simply to get the permitting for the building that replaced the WTC. In mass transit circles, it is known that building a subway line in New York is at least twice as much per kilometer as anyplace else in the world - including London, Paris, Singapore, etc.

Worst of all, unless you are one of the fortunate ones who has latched on to some sort of massive revenue stream, the cost of housing is simply crippling (while everything else is also quite expensive). If you are a working-class person without some family-based housing advantage, you will be living in a space that would simply be unacceptable for someone at a comparable economic stratum, anywhere else in the country.

Bottom line: there are a lot of people who are thriving in New York, but how they manage to do it is a mystery to me. I will only go back if I can manage to do it on an expense account, which is unlikely since I'm retired.
New York City is the financial capital of the United States, as Nostradamus would say. I prefer the small cities.
 
...except that "great" is both undefinable and ambiguous. Horrific also comes under the heading of "great."

The question is - in my opinion - would any sane person choose to live there if the choice were free of historical family and friend attachments?

As with coastal California, the answer is, probably not.
 
...except that "great" is both undefinable and ambiguous. Horrific also comes under the heading of "great."

Yes, but I suspect now you're just being intentionally obtuse.

When I say "great" you know I'm not saying it's horrific...

The question is - in my opinion - would any sane person choose to live there if the choice were free of historical family and friend attachments?

If it wasn't for the prevailing political climate, I could easily see myself living in Manhattan...

As with coastal California, the answer is, probably not.

Have you ever lived in either?
 
Over the past couple years I have made an informal, half-assed study of NYC, based on three personal visits spanning 9-10 days (depending on how you count), reading New York newspapers, and talking to locals. I believe that all Americans should "understand" NYC, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles, in the same way that we should understand the Constitution, because those cities are so important to the culture of the country (I'm being generous here).

For what it's worth, some good things about NYC:

It has incomparable opportunities to enjoy American culture and entertainment. Whether your passion is music, graphic arts, theater/film, sports (both spectator and participating), food, literature, or architecture, there is simply no place else that has New York's resources. As they used to say, "Enjoy." If you can't Enjoy in NYC there is something wrong with YOU.

While exploiting New York's mass transit resources can be trying at times, you can get anywhere in the five boroughs inexpensively and in a "reasonable" time. And the taxis and Ubers are surprisingly reasonable, compared to some other big cities around the world.

The neighborhoods are fabulous. No matter what sort of community you want to live in - ethnic, age based, interest based, whatever - you can find it in New York. I personally say, to hell with the "melting pot" metaphor; New York is a mosaic of cultures that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.

From what I saw, the NYPD is doing a pretty good job.

The amount of green space, parks, athletic venues, and running/walking/biking paths is amazing. You could take a different path every week for a year - and that's dedicated pathways, not on city streets.

But New York has some serious, serious problems.

The real estate market is much more fcuked up than anyone is willing to admit. Apartments are grotesquely over-priced, whether you are talking about rentals or condo/coop purchases. With AT LEAST 50% of the "white collar" world never going back to their respective offices, who do they think will be lining up to pay $4,000/month for a crappy little apartment in Manhattan? It cannot last. And the office vacancy rate is - to be honest - at least 50%, Most large employers are catatonically uncertain about where to go from here. Their most valuable employees will tell them to go fcuk themselves if they are ordered back to their expensive offices - which are now sitting empty, though rented. Again, the status quo cannot last.

Government employees (including employees of the scores of "authorities") are bankrupting the city, in several different ways. The wages, benefits, and retirement programs are simply unsustainable, even with massive state and federal help. It is impossible to pin down exactly, but I've heard it estimated that fully one-fourth of the New York population is either paid or supported with public funds. In addition, the NYC bureaucracy is the most obstructive web of interference since the fall of the Soviet Union. To illustrate the point, it took TEN YEARS simply to get the permitting for the building that replaced the WTC. In mass transit circles, it is known that building a subway line in New York is at least twice as much per kilometer as anyplace else in the world - including London, Paris, Singapore, etc.

Worst of all, unless you are one of the fortunate ones who has latched on to some sort of massive revenue stream, the cost of housing is simply crippling (while everything else is also quite expensive). If you are a working-class person without some family-based housing advantage, you will be living in a space that would simply be unacceptable for someone at a comparable economic stratum, anywhere else in the country.

Bottom line: there are a lot of people who are thriving in New York, but how they manage to do it is a mystery to me. I will only go back if I can manage to do it on an expense account, which is unlikely since I'm retired.
/——-/ I made my home in New York in 1971. I loved the city, and always felt safe. Today, at 71 years old, I won’t go in unless I’m in a crowd, mainly because of the runaway crime.
 
There's not enough money you could pay me to live in that way over crowded, crime ridden, dirty hell hole. ... :nono:

Sure there is. Everyone has their price, and you're no different.

But, hey, fuck it. More of the best pizza and bagels on earth for me...
 
Before Rudy became mayor of New York City, the city was a toilet.

DeBlasio and now Adams are bringing NYC back to the pre-Giuliani days of utter depravity and crime.

A British subject living there in the 1970's explains the situation at the time.


"Don't you know the crime rate is going up, up, up, up, up
To live in this town you must be tough, tough, tough, tough, tough!
You got rats on the West Side
Bed bugs uptown
What a mess this town's in tatters, I've been shattered
My brain's been battered, splattered all over Manhattan"
 

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