New weapon

[RetiredGySgt]

I am thinking of buying a new weapon. I have an M1 Carbine good to a couple hundred yards and an M1 Gerand good to 1200 yards. Was thinking of getting a mid range rifle.

I do not hunt, these are for defense. Any suggestions?

 

[Mini 14]

AR or AK seem the obvious choices, depending on how you define "mid range." Some people hate them though.

If you don't have an AR, you probably need one. Easy, cheap ammo, and a real workhorse.

For the money, the S&W M&P AR is hard to beat. Run you right around $1000. If you want to go a little less expensive look at Rock River and Stag Arms, if you can find one. Solid, basic platforms with tight upper/lower/butt joints.

 

[Douger]

Galil.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

AR or AK seem the obvious choices, depending on how you define "mid range." Some people hate them though.

If you don't have an AR, you probably need one. Easy, cheap ammo, and a real workhorse.

For the money, the S&W M&P AR is hard to beat. Run you right around $1000. If you want to go a little less expensive look at Rock River and Stag Arms, if you can find one. Solid, basic platforms with tight upper/lower/butt joints.

Friend had an AK, Chinese made. It was a piece of shit. With the sights all the way over it was still shooting off the target to the right.

Local gunshop has an AR for 835. Leery though, I would have to buy magazines and then stock up on ammo. I know from buying pistol mags they are beyond expensive.

How much is .223? I would want to have at least a thousand rounds.

 

[Mini 14]

Galil.

Money is no object

Awesome weapons. If not the finest you can buy, certainly right there at the top.

I saw a tricked-out Barret at a gun show a couple of weeks ago. Guy was asking $12,500, but he was throwing in 500 rounds as well. I was tempted......

 

[Mini 14]

AR or AK seem the obvious choices, depending on how you define "mid range." Some people hate them though.

If you don't have an AR, you probably need one. Easy, cheap ammo, and a real workhorse.

For the money, the S&W M&P AR is hard to beat. Run you right around $1000. If you want to go a little less expensive look at Rock River and Stag Arms, if you can find one. Solid, basic platforms with tight upper/lower/butt joints.

Friend had an AK, Chinese made. It was a piece of shit. With the sights all the way over it was still shooting off the target to the right.

Local gunshop has an AR for 835. Leery though, I would have to buy magazines and then stock up on ammo. I know from buying pistol mags they are beyond expensive.

How much is .223? I would want to have at least a thousand rounds.

The mags are relatively cheap sarge. $17 for a 30 rounder? And the ammo is all over the place. I've bought 1000 rounds for as little as $225 (typically an enameled casing, or a European load), but the going rate for "sufficient quality," brass casings as about $350 and up for 1000. I shoot the Remington stuff a lot....20 rounds for under $10. I keep Federal for my bulk stuff....and when you can find 5.56 NATO, I jump all over them.

835 isn't bad at all. Is it used or new, and do you know which manufacturer?

 

[Douger]

Second in line would be a Steyr AUG.

 

[Mini 14]

Keep in mind Sarge....ARs and AKs aren't precision rifles. You can tweak them to get pretty good and reliable accuracy, but they are designed for a different purpose than the rifles you currently have. They are "accurate enough" at 3-400 yards, but typically aren't going to shoot a tight group reliably even at 100. That is the trade off for reliability and speed. The upper/lower/butt joints are the weak links for accuracy, but the strong points for reliability and flexibility for duty. Remember they are combat weapons that were designed to fit 100s od different scenarios, NONE of which were sniping.

And I'm with you on the AK. Other than reliability (you can throw it in a mud puddle, pick it up and know it will fire), they don't do much for me. I can throw rocks more accurately than most AKs from 100 yards.

 

[Mini 14]

Second in line would be a Steyr AUG.

Damn Douger....we need to hang out. I want to see your gun safe!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Keep in mind Sarge....ARs and AKs aren't precision rifles. You can tweak them to get pretty good and reliable accuracy, but they are designed for a different purpose than the rifles you currently have. They are "accurate enough" at 3-400 yards, but typically aren't going to shoot a tight group reliably even at 100. That is the trade off for reliability and speed. The upper/lower/butt joints are the weak links for accuracy, but the strong points for reliability and flexibility for duty. Remember they are combat weapons that were designed to fit 100s od different scenarios, NONE of which were sniping.

And I'm with you on the AK. Other than reliability (you can throw it in a mud puddle, pick it up and know it will fire), they don't do much for me. I can throw rocks more accurately than most AKs from 100 yards.

The M16a2 is damn accurate out to 500 yards. I shot back when they used scoring and not just body shots. I routinely scored over 230 of a possible 250 score. Very tight groups on rapid fire. The A1 was not nearly as accurate.

I don't know the manufacturer. Will have to take a trip out and look at it again if still there.

 

[Article 15]

 

[Mini 14]

The M16a2 is damn accurate out to 500 yards. I shot back when they used scoring and not just body shots. I routinely scored over 230 of a possible 250 score. Very tight groups on rapid fire. The A1 was not nearly as accurate.

I don't know the manufacturer. Will have to take a trip out and look at it again if still there.

With an AR, here's what you need to do:

Hold the rifle so that you can wiggle the upper and lower against each other. There is going to be a little bit of movement there, just because of the design, but you want as tight a joint as you can get. One that is poorly designed, or wearing out, will move very noticeably. Eventually, it may start to jam, and the only fix is a gunsmith with a manufacturer's license, because it is going to take some machining and a hefty bill to get it tight again.

Then hold the rifle and wiggle the butt joint (just wiggle the stock and see how much it moves). If it moves much at all, the threads may be wearing/stripped, or it might just be a cheaper design or a poorly matched stock. Think about it.....if the butt stocks wiggles, how accurate can it be?

That's why I like the Stag and Rock River guns. For the money, they typically give you good, steady joints at a relatively lower price. From there, ARs are pretty much all the same., You're going to trick it out how you like it, and all the parts are universal, so you fall back to relying on those two joints. Ask who made the upper. Daniel makes most of the uppers for the military now, and they are solid (there are better, but Daniel is (literally) good enough for government work).

I have a S&W M&P that I haven't touched at all. I think I paid right at $1100? It is VERY solid and well made. Right out of the box, it will be very adequate, but 300-400 or so more than the Stag and Rock River.

And know that you're used to precision, so no matter which one you get, you're going to be disappointed with the accuracy. They're just not designed for that, and in the scenario I *think* your describing for this one, speed of fire and ease/cost of ammo are going to be the bigger factors. Sounds like this is going to be an "oh shit!" gun?

Good luck, and let me know if I can help. Gunbroker.com (really any of the auction sites) is a GREAT place to look around and get an idea on prices/availability.

 

[Mini 14]

As Douger would say, "I've got to go pay the murkins."

Heading to work to cut payroll and grab some cash.

See you later.