New Little Ice Age

[Old Rocks]

Doubled the amount o CO2 in the atmosphere? It was at 7000 ppm not all that long ago in geological terms and now it is at about 400 ppm. What constant are you dreaming of?

You correctly point out that the Sun's output is lower right now than it has been in some decades. You omit that this level is a very, very recent phenomenom. You then present a multidecadenal measure of ice loss which was measured when the Sun's output was at its highest ever level as measured by instrument or proxy.

This is disingeuous and resembles a swindle-like lie.

It is this type of sleight-of-hand presentation of cherry picked, falsly connected and deliberately omitted facts that causes skeptics to question the tripe put forth by the politicians.

Are you parroting this misleading line or are you one of the swindlers?

This is to ask, "Are you a gullible fool or a decietful swindler?"

I love the girations you go through to ignore the facts.

The polar ice cap is melting at a rate of 6.1% per decade, and we have almost doubled the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere in the last 200 years.

And the Sun is at its lowest level of activity in 80 years.

Nice try, though.

Once again, you are citing a recent fall off of TSI and linking it to a reduction in ice that occurred prior to the fall-off.

Once again, the TSI is still at a historic high compared to the last 300 years.

Once again, even at the reduced level of TSI today, the 11 year moving average is higher than it was at any point in the record before about 1920 all the way back to about 1620.

The increase of the TSI pre-dates the Industrial Revolution by about 100 years and the resulting warming pre-dates any increase in CO2 that could possibly have resulted from the Industrial Revolution.

By the by, the Ice Extent in the Arctic has been increasing or stable lately.
So, to re-cap, the CO2 increases consistanly and the TSI varies slightly. The very slight variation in the TSI seems to be reflected in both the temperature and the Ice Extent while the vey consistanly increasing CO2 seems to have little or no impact on anything except the guages at Mauna Loa.
Now then, tell me again how the decrease in TSI across the last 3 years affected Arctic Sea Ice Extent 40 years ago.
http://chartsgraphs.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/tsi_1611_2009_11yr_ma.png

You interpret more than two deviations from the 29 year average as stable? I don't think I would want you on a team determining land stability in a slide zone.

LOL. Sure, the TSI is declining, we had a strong La Nina, and still since 1998 we have had the ten warmest years on record. Counting 1998, that is the ten warmest years on record in period of eleven years. And we are cooling???????????

And they were running freighters through the Northeast Passage forty years ago?

 

[SmellyLemmings]

if global warming is true, then shouldn't we be preparing for it? i don't mean like another cold war era where we'll be living in hibernation shelters or something like that. of course, saying we should be paranoid about it is another factor.

 

[FactFinder]

I love the girations you go through to ignore the facts.

The polar ice cap is melting at a rate of 6.1% per decade, and we have almost doubled the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere in the last 200 years.

And the Sun is at its lowest level of activity in 80 years.

Nice try, though.

Once again, you are citing a recent fall off of TSI and linking it to a reduction in ice that occurred prior to the fall-off.

Once again, the TSI is still at a historic high compared to the last 300 years.

Once again, even at the reduced level of TSI today, the 11 year moving average is higher than it was at any point in the record before about 1920 all the way back to about 1620.

The increase of the TSI pre-dates the Industrial Revolution by about 100 years and the resulting warming pre-dates any increase in CO2 that could possibly have resulted from the Industrial Revolution.

By the by, the Ice Extent in the Arctic has been increasing or stable lately.
So, to re-cap, the CO2 increases consistanly and the TSI varies slightly. The very slight variation in the TSI seems to be reflected in both the temperature and the Ice Extent while the vey consistanly increasing CO2 seems to have little or no impact on anything except the guages at Mauna Loa.
Now then, tell me again how the decrease in TSI across the last 3 years affected Arctic Sea Ice Extent 40 years ago.
http://chartsgraphs.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/tsi_1611_2009_11yr_ma.png

You interpret more than two deviations from the 29 year average as stable? I don't think I would want you on a team determining land stability in a slide zone.

LOL. Sure, the TSI is declining, we had a strong La Nina, and still since 1998 we have had the ten warmest years on record. Counting 1998, that is the ten warmest years on record in period of eleven years. And we are cooling???????????

And they were running freighters through the Northeast Passage forty years ago?

This is so disingeneuous of you that it causes a questioning of your motive and integrity.

ICECAP

June Global Temperatures Drop Again, 8 Year Downtrend Continues
By Joseph D’Aleo

Dr. Roy Spencer announced on his blog that June’s anomaly globally using the Aqua satellite dropped to 0.001C. This continues the downtrend that started after 2001.


See larger image here.

Roy notes: June 2009 saw another - albeit small drop in the global average temperature anomaly, from +0.04 deg. C in May to 0.00 deg. C in June, with the coolest anomaly (-0.03 deg. C) in the Southern Hemisphere. The decadal temperature trend for the period December 1978 through June 2009 is now at +0.12 deg. C per decade.

 

[Old Rocks]

And?

UAH global temperature anomaly up significantly this month « Watts Up With That?

July 2009 Global Temperature Update: +0.41 deg. C

August 5th, 2009

YR MON GLOBE NH SH TROPICS
2009 1 0.304 0.443 0.165 -0.036
2009 2 0.347 0.678 0.016 0.051
2009 3 0.206 0.310 0.103 -0.149
2009 4 0.090 0.124 0.056 -0.014
2009 5 0.045 0.046 0.044 -0.166
2009 6 0.003 0.031 -0.025 -0.003
2009 7 0.410 0.211 0.609 0.427


July 2009 experienced a large jump in global average tropospheric temperatures, from +0.00 deg. C in June to +0.41 deg. C in July, with the tropics and southern hemisphere showing the greatest warming.

NOTE: For those who are monitoring the daily progress of global-average temperatures here, we will be switching from NOAA-15 to Aqua AMSU in the next few weeks, which will provide more accurate tracking on a daily basis. We will be including both our lower troposphere (LT) and mid-tropospheric (MT) pre-processing of the data.

Lucia at the Blackboard has an analaysis of RSS, which came in higher this month also, at 0.392°C.

 

[Old Rocks]

My, my.

August 2009 Global Temperature Update: +0.23 deg. C « Roy Spencer, Ph. D.

August 2009 saw a modest fall in the global average tropospheric temperature anomaly, from +0.41 deg. C in July to +0.23 deg. C in August. The tropical and Northern Hemispheric troposphere remain quite warm, but the Southern Hemisphere cooled by over 0.4 deg. C in the last month.

NOTE: For those who are monitoring the daily progress of global-average temperatures here, we are still working on switching from NOAA-15 to Aqua AMSU, which will provide more accurate tracking on a daily basis. We will be including both our lower troposphere (LT) and mid-tropospheric (MT) pre-processing of the data. We will also be adding global sea surface temperature anomalies from the AMSR-E instrument on board the NASA Aqua satellite.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oops!

Global Temperature Report: September 2009

Global Temperature Report: September 2009
next article 16.10.2009
A relatively routine El Nino Pacific Ocean warming event shouldn't cause the hottest tropical September in the past 31 years, but it did, according to Dr. John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at The University of Alabama in Huntsville.

On top of a record-setting month in the tropics, September 2009 was also the second warmest September on record both globally and in the Northern Hemisphere.

 

[Old Rocks]

if global warming is true, then shouldn't we be preparing for it? i don't mean like another cold war era where we'll be living in hibernation shelters or something like that. of course, saying we should be paranoid about it is another factor.

Yes. We should be making preperations. First, stop digging the hole deeper. Second, as much as possible, get an idea as to what the next 50 years will bring in terms of sea level, temperatures and precipitation around the world, but particularly in our food baskets.

Some things to think about. In our port cities, how much can the sea level rise before the existing sewage facilities are affected? At what point will the dock facilities be affected? How much will it cost to raise them or move them?

For low lying agricultural areas. How long until the aquifers are affected? Is there any source for replacement of the water?

For agricultural areas in general. How are the precipitation patterns likely to change? Temperatures? A small example here in the Willemette Valley. Vintners here are considering moving their various types of grapes 150 ft higher because the increasing temperatures have affected the quality of the wines.

But the chief preparation at this point is much more research and monitoring as to what is actually happening in the real world. Our ignorance on this subject is still much greater than our knowledge. There may actually be a negative feedback out there that will ameliorate the situation. I hope there is. However, at present, what we are seeing is that the scientists estimates have been far too conservative. The polar melt and the ice caps, Greenland and Antarctica, are both losing ice much faster than the models forecast. And the present outgassing of the clathrates in the Arctic Ocean has taken everybody by surprise.

 

[Chris]

The government of the Maldives islands is preparing....

Maldives government holds underwater cabinet meeting - Telegraph

President Mohamed Nasheed, dressed in full scuba gear, conducted the 30-minute meeting at a depth of 20 feet off the coast just north of the capital Male.

Most of the island nation, a tourist paradise featuring coral reefs and white sand beaches, lies less just over three feet above sea level and scientists have warned it could be uninhabitable in less than 100 years.

Aminath Shauna, the event's co-ordinator, said the ministers had signed their wetsuits, which would be auctioned on the protectthemaldives.com website to raise money for coral reef protection in the atoll-chain.

The government arranged a horseshoe-shaped table on the seabed for the ministers, who communicated using white boards and hand signals.

The Divers Association of Maldives said the ministers, who had trained over the past two months, felt confident about the unprecedented meeting.

 

[Fatality]

i wish our little ice age would start, we are still in the friggin 90's!!

 

[FactFinder]

Oops!

Global Temperature Report: September 2009

Global Temperature Report: September 2009
next article 16.10.2009
A relatively routine El Nino Pacific Ocean warming event shouldn't cause the hottest tropical September in the past 31 years, but it did, according to Dr. John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at The University of Alabama in Huntsville.

On top of a record-setting month in the tropics, September 2009 was also the second warmest September on record both globally and in the Northern Hemisphere.

They have isolated El Nino as the only event effecting the temp?
The oceans are cooling. Hellooo...that means the heat is dissipating into the air. That air gets circulated. It is not rocket science.

These one dimensional proclamations are always suspect.

Oh and the arctic ice extent has been expanding for the last 2 years. Go figure..perhaps the air circulation shifted again. Ah,,couldn't be..that never happens.

 

[FactFinder]

i wish our little ice age would start, we are still in the friggin 90's!!

Think the expanding arctic air from the north could be holding the southern air flows in place?

from weather.com:

South | View Regional Video
High pressure keeps much of the region chilly through Monday and dry through Tuesday.

Temperatures remain chilly early Monday with morning lows in the 30s to lower 40s north, the 40s and 50s along the Gulf coast, and in the 50s and 60s in southern Florida and Texas.

Frost advisories or freeze warnings cover much of the interior Southeast and mid-South through Monday morning.

Seems a bit chilly for October, heh?

 

[Old Rocks]

Oops!

Global Temperature Report: September 2009

Global Temperature Report: September 2009
next article 16.10.2009
A relatively routine El Nino Pacific Ocean warming event shouldn't cause the hottest tropical September in the past 31 years, but it did, according to Dr. John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at The University of Alabama in Huntsville.

On top of a record-setting month in the tropics, September 2009 was also the second warmest September on record both globally and in the Northern Hemisphere.

They have isolated El Nino as the only event effecting the temp?
The oceans are cooling. Hellooo...that means the heat is dissipating into the air. That air gets circulated. It is not rocket science.

These one dimensional proclamations are always suspect.

Oh and the arctic ice extent has been expanding for the last 2 years. Go figure..perhaps the air circulation shifted again. Ah,,couldn't be..that never happens.

The oceans are cooling so much that we have had the hottest temperatures ever recorded in them this summer and fall. Now that is one hell of a cooling trend!

Oh, yeah, the artic ice is expanding. In the last three years the lowest extent on record, and thinner every year. Less volume. In the next one or two years, we will have a year in which the ice covers less than it did in 2007.

 

[FactFinder]

Oops!

Global Temperature Report: September 2009

Global Temperature Report: September 2009
next article 16.10.2009
A relatively routine El Nino Pacific Ocean warming event shouldn't cause the hottest tropical September in the past 31 years, but it did, according to Dr. John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at The University of Alabama in Huntsville.

On top of a record-setting month in the tropics, September 2009 was also the second warmest September on record both globally and in the Northern Hemisphere.

They have isolated El Nino as the only event effecting the temp?
The oceans are cooling. Hellooo...that means the heat is dissipating into the air. That air gets circulated. It is not rocket science.

These one dimensional proclamations are always suspect.

Oh and the arctic ice extent has been expanding for the last 2 years. Go figure..perhaps the air circulation shifted again. Ah,,couldn't be..that never happens.

The oceans are cooling so much that we have had the hottest temperatures ever recorded in them this summer and fall. Now that is one hell of a cooling trend!

Oh, yeah, the artic ice is expanding. In the last three years the lowest extent on record, and thinner every year. Less volume. In the next one or two years, we will have a year in which the ice covers less than it did in 2007.

Here is the chart of the Argo data:

Sloping down means coolong, no?

 

[FactFinder]

Oh, this could be why the Arctic ice extent is growing, heh?

 

[Old Rocks]

Now this is the source of your graphs. And, yes, there is an overall cooling in the last 3 years of some oceans. However, have a look at the first graph from the site, the link to which you failed to include. Note the long term heat rise. And note there have been many periods of brief cooling. As the oceans warm more, this short period will be even less memorable than the last cooling periods.

Climate Observations: ENSO Dominates NODC Ocean Heat Content (0-700 Meters) Data

 

[Chris]

The North Atlantic may be cooling because the Gulf Stream is being shut down by the decrease in the salinity of the water caused by the polar ice melt.

But the overall temperature of all the oceans is the warmest ever recorded.

 

[FactFinder]

Here is the Argo data compiled globally.

Still looks like a downward trend to me. Maybe I need my eyes checked?

Isn't it amazing how all data whether land or sea follows the levels of solar irradiance? Whooda thunk the sun had anything to do with it?

 

[FactFinder]

Now this is the source of your graphs. And, yes, there is an overall cooling in the last 3 years of some oceans. However, have a look at the first graph from the site, the link to which you failed to include. Note the long term heat rise. And note there have been many periods of brief cooling. As the oceans warm more, this short period will be even less memorable than the last cooling periods.

Climate Observations: ENSO Dominates NODC Ocean Heat Content (0-700 Meters) Data

you keep twisting and turning as the facts come out. Careful now, some may interpret that as squirming.

Oh the latest updated data is here:
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/10/nodc-corrections-to-ocean-heat-content_16.html

I had full confidence that you could check the source of the graph as most schoolkids know about these days.

Oh why did you say that the oceans are warming then contradict yourself and add your opinions as if they are fact when confronted with the facts?
Mother Nature is a fickle partner. Just when you think you have her figured out she'll change on ya.
It's meant to be that way so that humankind has proper perspective on their smallness.

 

[editec]

What is it with you people?

Of course the sun can alter our climate.

Likewise, man's activities can alter our climate.

Volcanos can alter our climate.

All kinds of things natural or manmade can screw it up.

Don't you people read anything but right-leaning blogs?

 

[Old Rocks]

http://i35.tinypic.com/mrzhhu.png

Finder, this is from the site you posted. Note on the graph, as of Jan09, the oceans, globally, were warmer than they have been before about 2002.

And this summer and fall, they were warmer than at any point on the graph. So the coldest the oceans were in the last seven years, they were far warmer than at any point prior to that.

But you seem to think that the minor variations in that represent a cooling trend?

Where in the hell did you ever learn to read graphs at?

This is the site you claim supports your arguement that the oceans are cooling. Look at the graph I posted by itself from the site, then look at all the other graphs. All but one show long term warming, that the cooling that you refer to represents exactly the natural variations that is seen in the graph in prior decades.