Neville Chamberlain- unfairly condemned?

[Ringel05]

Sure he should be villianized, Ringel. That's what we do here.

We wouldn't do things like that.......


Honestly so many politicians/leaders are villainized by some simply because they had it wrong, did the wrong thing, empowered the wrong people, etc. 20/20 hind sight is wonderful, too bad we don't have it in the here and now.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope, not at all. The French could have launched a spoling attack into the Reich, the Czechs would have seriously damaged the Germans as they went down, the British would send what it had to the Continent, and the Poles would have overrun East Prussia.

Neville made the wrong call, and so have you.

This would be the same Polish Army that would attack German tanks with horses and got wrapped up in six weeks a year later.

Were they super competent in 1938 and then turned sort of dumb in 1939?

For France, again, they didn't have the ability to launch a major offensive into Germany. When war broke out in 1939, they did launch "spoiler attacks" into Germany. And they never stretched more than 20 miles in, outside the fixed range of artiliery pieces on the Maginot Line.

The Poles were more competitive in 1938 with the Germans than in 1939. So were the Czechs, the French, and British.

Your position is debunked.

Except Poland wasn't going to throw in with the Czechs, necesarrily.

Poland had poor aircraft, no tanks, and was run by a military junta at that time. (This is what people tend to forget.

As for France and Britian. Do you know what they called the war in 1939 to early 1940 on the Western Front. "the Phony war" or the "Sitzkreig". The western allies did nothing while Poland was being taken apart.

Why do I get the feeling you've never served in the military, Jake the fake?

 

[JakeStarkey]

JoeB, have commanded troops, airborne infantry. Have you even served?

 

[JoeB131]

JoeB, have commanded troops, airborne infantry. Have you even served?

Quick, what was your MOS....

 

[JakeStarkey]

My MOS was 11B Poppa. What was yours, trainee?

 

[JoeB131]

My MOS was 11B Poppa. What was yours, trainee?

76Y30. They discontinued that designation in the 1990's and changed it to something in the 90's, but it's Unit Supply Specialist.

And again, since you lie about being a Republican and not being a Mormon, I really don't trust much of anything you say.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You don't understand the world, so you resent me, who obviously does. I am GOP, I am not a Mormon of any kind, I was airborne, and you continue a loser.

 

[JoeB131]

You don't understand the world, so you resent me, who obviously does. I am GOP, I am not a Mormon of any kind, I was airborne, and you continue a loser.

Nobody here beleives you're a republican, guy.

Or anything else you say.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

It is important to face up to the logistical challenges also. Even in 1939 the British had to go to the French in order to get at the Germans. The French would not move. Churchill was ful of ideas and the French just shrugged their shoulders at him. It would have been the same in 1938. If Chamberlain had tired to help the Czecks in 1938 he would have had the same effect as he did in 1939, just a buzzing fly against the glass wall of France.
Munich is what convinced Chamberlain that he concepts about Hitler were wrong. He spent the intervening year trying to fix the problem while dealing with a populace that was still determinedly blind.
In France the situation was even worse. The French army was run by folks who were still crippled from the last world war. Petain was a hero in WWI because he ran the sausage machine at Verdun where millions of French were killed in recovering a line that, after it was all over, was no different than it had been a year earlier. He was on recored for disdaining that kind of heroics in the future.

As for making a deal with Stallin, that would be making a deal with a worse devil. Both Russia and Germany were abattoirs run by psychos. With the information Chamberlain had, treating with Hitler was making a deal with the lesser devil.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You don't understand the world, so you resent me, who obviously does. I am GOP, I am not a Mormon of any kind, I was airborne, and you continue a loser.

Nobody here beleives you're a republican, guy.

Or anything else you say.

JoeB, you got yourself in a bind, and you are describing yourself. No one cares what you think, other than maybe JRK. And you are still and always will be a loser.

 

[JoeB131]

You don't understand the world, so you resent me, who obviously does. I am GOP, I am not a Mormon of any kind, I was airborne, and you continue a loser.

Nobody here beleives you're a republican, guy.

Or anything else you say.

JoeB, you got yourself in a bind, and you are describing yourself. No one cares what you think, other than maybe JRK. And you are still and always will be a loser.

Nobody believes you are a Repulican. Nobody.

Heck, I'm the only person here who still pays attention to you, probably because you don't have any friends.

 

[Katzndogz]

Chamberlain's worst error is that he used "Peace in our time" to prevent the British from preparing for what was to come. Had the British listened to Winston Churchill instead of Neville Chamberlain they would have been in a better position to defend themselves when the inevitable war reached England. Not only the government, but the people also needed to be educated in what they were going to be facing.

 

[elvis]

We all got this lesson in history class. Neville Chamberlain went to Munich, and cravenly sold out Czechoslovakia to Hitler. In hindsight, since war inevitably came anyway, it seems that his actions were cowardly.

However, I offer a different view. Chamberlain played the hand he was dealt, and made the only calls he could.

First, it was impossible for the United Kingdom and France to do much of anything to help Prague in case of a war. After the union of Austria and Germany, the western half of the country was surrounded on three sides. France had invested most of its infrastructure into fixed defenses like the ones that got it through World War I, and not tanks and planes. Hungary and Italy's alliances with Germany made it impossible to help Czechoslovakia from the South.

Second, Czechoslovakia itself was a polite fiction. The country was made up of 6 million Czechs, 3 million Germans in the Sudetenland, who really wanted to be part of Germany, and 1.5 million Slovaks who would have preferred independence. There were also large amounts of Hungarians who wanted to be part of Hungary again.

Finally, the united Kingdom wasn't ready for a war. Not yet. They were in the midst of a rearmorment program and the political classes hadn't accepted another war might be needed.

So really, all Neville could do at Munich was keep the peace... because war was an impossible situation.

the problem was, he did nothing when Hitler TOOK all of Czechoslovakia, which led the Nazis to think he'd do nothing if they attacked Poland.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nobody here beleives you're a republican, guy.

Or anything else you say.

JoeB, you got yourself in a bind, and you are describing yourself. No one cares what you think, other than maybe JRK. And you are still and always will be a loser.

Nobody believes you are a Repulican. Nobody.

Heck, I'm the only person here who still pays attention to you, probably because you don't have any friends.

Contine to be delusional. Did you see what Christie did yesterday? You are such a laugh here.

 

[JoeB131]

We all got this lesson in history class. Neville Chamberlain went to Munich, and cravenly sold out Czechoslovakia to Hitler. In hindsight, since war inevitably came anyway, it seems that his actions were cowardly.

However, I offer a different view. Chamberlain played the hand he was dealt, and made the only calls he could.

First, it was impossible for the United Kingdom and France to do much of anything to help Prague in case of a war. After the union of Austria and Germany, the western half of the country was surrounded on three sides. France had invested most of its infrastructure into fixed defenses like the ones that got it through World War I, and not tanks and planes. Hungary and Italy's alliances with Germany made it impossible to help Czechoslovakia from the South.

Second, Czechoslovakia itself was a polite fiction. The country was made up of 6 million Czechs, 3 million Germans in the Sudetenland, who really wanted to be part of Germany, and 1.5 million Slovaks who would have preferred independence. There were also large amounts of Hungarians who wanted to be part of Hungary again.

Finally, the united Kingdom wasn't ready for a war. Not yet. They were in the midst of a rearmorment program and the political classes hadn't accepted another war might be needed.

So really, all Neville could do at Munich was keep the peace... because war was an impossible situation.

the problem was, he did nothing when Hitler TOOK all of Czechoslovakia, which led the Nazis to think he'd do nothing if they attacked Poland.

No, the problem was, there was nothing he actually could do. There was nothing he could actually do if Hitler took out Poland, either.

 

[JoeB131]

Contine to be delusional. Did you see what Christie did yesterday? You are such a laugh here.

Yeah. So what.

Hey, did you see the new NBC Poll. The one where Cain's now pulled ahead of Rombot?

Romney is STILL at the same lame 23% he was two months ago. That's his ceiling, man.

If he gets the nomination, it will because the beltway bunch rigged the game. And they they'll wonder why millions of us will go third party.

 

[elvis]

We all got this lesson in history class. Neville Chamberlain went to Munich, and cravenly sold out Czechoslovakia to Hitler. In hindsight, since war inevitably came anyway, it seems that his actions were cowardly.

However, I offer a different view. Chamberlain played the hand he was dealt, and made the only calls he could.

First, it was impossible for the United Kingdom and France to do much of anything to help Prague in case of a war. After the union of Austria and Germany, the western half of the country was surrounded on three sides. France had invested most of its infrastructure into fixed defenses like the ones that got it through World War I, and not tanks and planes. Hungary and Italy's alliances with Germany made it impossible to help Czechoslovakia from the South.

Second, Czechoslovakia itself was a polite fiction. The country was made up of 6 million Czechs, 3 million Germans in the Sudetenland, who really wanted to be part of Germany, and 1.5 million Slovaks who would have preferred independence. There were also large amounts of Hungarians who wanted to be part of Hungary again.

Finally, the united Kingdom wasn't ready for a war. Not yet. They were in the midst of a rearmorment program and the political classes hadn't accepted another war might be needed.

So really, all Neville could do at Munich was keep the peace... because war was an impossible situation.

the problem was, he did nothing when Hitler TOOK all of Czechoslovakia, which led the Nazis to think he'd do nothing if they attacked Poland.

No, the problem was, there was nothing he actually could do. There was nothing he could actually do if Hitler took out Poland, either.

Well, assuming you're right that there was nothing he could do, he still did nothing.

 

[JoeB131]

the problem was, he did nothing when Hitler TOOK all of Czechoslovakia, which led the Nazis to think he'd do nothing if they attacked Poland.

No, the problem was, there was nothing he actually could do. There was nothing he could actually do if Hitler took out Poland, either.

Well, assuming you're right that there was nothing he could do, he still did nothing.

No, he did do something.

He didn't commit his country to a war it wasn't ready for after 20 years of diverting military spending into social programs.

He didn't commit his country to a war that the vast majority of his own people wanted no part of. Understandable, really. They UK had buried a million men in WWI and had nothing to show for it.

He didn't commit his country to fighting a war for a "country" which was hated by half of its own population. Sudeten Germans, Slovaks, Hungarians. They were all sick of the Czechs in Prague and their bullshit.

Can you find "Czechoslovakia" on a map today? NOPE. Because left to their own devices, the Czechs and Slovaks wanted their own nations.

 

[elvis]

No, the problem was, there was nothing he actually could do. There was nothing he could actually do if Hitler took out Poland, either.

Well, assuming you're right that there was nothing he could do, he still did nothing.

No, he did do something.

He didn't commit his country to a war it wasn't ready for after 20 years of diverting military spending into social programs.

He didn't commit his country to a war that the vast majority of his own people wanted no part of. Understandable, really. They UK had buried a million men in WWI and had nothing to show for it.

He didn't commit his country to fighting a war for a "country" which was hated by half of its own population. Sudeten Germans, Slovaks, Hungarians. They were all sick of the Czechs in Prague and their bullshit.

Can you find "Czechoslovakia" on a map today? NOPE. Because left to their own devices, the Czechs and Slovaks wanted their own nations.

So why commit the country to war after Poland, then?

 

[JoeB131]

Well, assuming you're right that there was nothing he could do, he still did nothing.

No, he did do something.

He didn't commit his country to a war it wasn't ready for after 20 years of diverting military spending into social programs.

He didn't commit his country to a war that the vast majority of his own people wanted no part of. Understandable, really. They UK had buried a million men in WWI and had nothing to show for it.

He didn't commit his country to fighting a war for a "country" which was hated by half of its own population. Sudeten Germans, Slovaks, Hungarians. They were all sick of the Czechs in Prague and their bullshit.

Can you find "Czechoslovakia" on a map today? NOPE. Because left to their own devices, the Czechs and Slovaks wanted their own nations.

So why commit the country to war after Poland, then?

That was probably a terrible idea, too.

WWII brought the end of the British Empire. At the end of the day, they had to go hat in hand to the colonies that they depended on for their economy to get people to fight.

Ugly truth. Only 500,000 Britons died in WWII fighting for the British Empire. 1,500,000 Indians and Pakistanis also died defending it. Essentially, perserving the Empire was "Outsourced".

The west would have been better off staying out of it and letting Hitler and Stalin bleed each other.