NBA and Bullshit Fouls

[DGS49]

how utterly predictable.

 

[Unkotare]

how utterly predictable.

Just what I was thinking.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Do you mean to actually say that any player today shoots better than Bird? Maravich? Dumars?

You're conflating issues far too simply.

Certainly the best of the 80's/90's can shoot. I'm talking about the entire league.

I mean, do you think guys like John or Jim Paxon, Jeff Hornacek, Anthony Mason, Mark Eaton, John Koncak, Chris Dudley, etc. could play in today's NBA?

Don't answer that, because you and I both know it. Of course not. And there are dozens and dozens more players who you know darned well couldn't hang in today's NBA.

Plays defense better than Augmon?

"Plays defense better than Augmon"? A lot of NBA players play defense better than Stacy Augmon, back when he played and today. That's a really odd name to bring up as far as standard bearers for defense.

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

You're conflating issues far too simply.

Certainly the best of the 80's/90's can shoot. I'm talking about the entire league.

I mean, do you think guys like John or Jim Paxon, Jeff Hornacek, Anthony Mason, Mark Eaton, John Koncak, Chris Dudley, etc. could play in today's NBA?

Don't answer that, because you and I both know it. Of course not. And there are dozens and dozens more players who you know darned well couldn't hang in today's NBA.




"Plays defense better than Augmon"? A lot of NBA players play defense better than Stacy Augmon, back when he played and today. That's a really odd name to bring up as far as standard bearers for defense.

What don't you understand about the effects of rule changes on the NBA of today?

*ADDRESS HAND CHECK RULE*.

As for Augmon, he was known for his defense and was one of the best defenders in the league.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

What don't you understand about the effects of rule changes on the NBA of today?

*ADDRESS HAND CHECK RULE*.

As for Augmon, he was known for his defense and was one of the best defenders in the league.

Listen Gabe, we're debating a speculation-infinity loop here. I appreciate the discussion, because you seem to be semi-knowledgeable of the era.

Sure, I'm absolutely willing to cede that rule changes have made it easier for players today and have changed the game. I personally am pissed at some of the lax officiating on clear BS shot attempts that have sadly made me stop following the league. Mind you, I'm a basketball fan first and foremost, it's my first sports love, and I loved the NBA up until approx 2018-2019.

I'm also quite aware that if Larry Bird had modern training techniques at his disposal, he'd be even better than he was, and that's scary. I own a few jerseys in my closet... Larry Bird Celtics, Dominique Wilkins Hawks, and Charles Barkley Suns. I'm a knowledgeable, well-exposed observer of the NBA in the 80's and 90's.

With that being said, I also know that the game has changed even without referee BS. It's become more athletic based... long limbs, higher verticals, and how fast can you get from point A to point B. The NBA has gone through significant changes in overall mindset.. let's review

- Pre 3 point line, the mindset was to get as close as you can to the basket to get your shot
- Once the 3 point line was installed, it was long seen as a last resort
- Over time, into the 80's and 90's, while it became a part of the offense, it was delegated to only 3-4 players on any given team, and post play was still the gold standard (Patrick Ewing, Hakeem, David Robinson, etc.)
- Then data breached it's ugly head, but I can't blame the results. The data shows that an in-rhythm, open 3 pointer has the same chance of going in as a semi-defended 10-15 footer, or even a well-defended post hook or turn shot. The Suns with Mike D'antoni started the trend, and the Rockets took it a step further into an absolute strategy.

So, we now have a league where it's clear that jacking up 3 pointers is just as efficient as old-school, warrior inside warfare. Don't blame the players. Any 80's star would have done the exact same thing had they known.

So what do we do about it? I've said for a LONG time we need to:
- make the court a few feet wider and longer, given the advances of modern training
- Yes, move the 3 point line back.. like 2-3 feet.
- Create a rule that if you jump into somebody to draw a shooting foul, it's either not a foul or a foul on you.

That's what I think.

 

[marvin martian]

The modern NBA is complete garbage.

When I was a kid I used to love to watch games.

I even went to a few over the years.

But that shit today is horrible.

Pretty much EVERY sport has gotten softer in reflection of the greater culture.

The NFL of today is powder puff compared to the gladiator olympics of my childhood.

No real American in their right mind should be watching, attending, or in any way paying to see professional sports today. Got to a college, or even high school, basketball, football, baseball, or hockey game. They're better.

 

[22lcidw]

Listen Gabe, we're debating a speculation-infinity loop here. I appreciate the discussion, because you seem to be semi-knowledgeable of the era.

Sure, I'm absolutely willing to cede that rule changes have made it easier for players today and have changed the game. I personally am pissed at some of the lax officiating on clear BS shot attempts that have sadly made me stop following the league. Mind you, I'm a basketball fan first and foremost, it's my first sports love, and I loved the NBA up until approx 2018-2019.

I'm also quite aware that if Larry Bird had modern training techniques at his disposal, he'd be even better than he was, and that's scary. I own a few jerseys in my closet... Larry Bird Celtics, Dominique Wilkins Hawks, and Charles Barkley Suns. I'm a knowledgeable, well-exposed observer of the NBA in the 80's and 90's.

With that being said, I also know that the game has changed even without referee BS. It's become more athletic based... long limbs, higher verticals, and how fast can you get from point A to point B. The NBA has gone through significant changes in overall mindset.. let's review

- Pre 3 point line, the mindset was to get as close as you can to the basket to get your shot
- Once the 3 point line was installed, it was long seen as a last resort
- Over time, into the 80's and 90's, while it became a part of the offense, it was delegated to only 3-4 players on any given team, and post play was still the gold standard (Patrick Ewing, Hakeem, David Robinson, etc.)
- Then data breached it's ugly head, but I can't blame the results. The data shows that an in-rhythm, open 3 pointer has the same chance of going in as a semi-defended 10-15 footer, or even a well-defended post hook or turn shot. The Suns with Mike D'antoni started the trend, and the Rockets took it a step further into an absolute strategy.

So, we now have a league where it's clear that jacking up 3 pointers is just as efficient as old-school, warrior inside warfare. Don't blame the players. Any 80's star would have done the exact same thing had they known.

So what do we do about it? I've said for a LONG time we need to:
- make the court a few feet wider and longer, given the advances of modern training
- Yes, move the 3 point line back.. like 2-3 feet.
- Create a rule that if you jump into somebody to draw a shooting foul, it's either not a foul or a foul on you.

That's what I think.

Enlarging the court would make sense. In fact American Football should enlarge the Field. Using meters instead of yards would be the easiest way although it is the metric system.

 

[DGS49]

The math of the 3-point play: The Gold Standard of shooting has always been 50% (other than the post-up centers of yore). At 50%, the player averages one point per shot, 10 points for ten shots and so on. 30 points for 30 shots.

But with the 3-point shot, one only needs to make 33% of his shots to reach 30 points for thirty shots. So anything over 33% 3-point shooting is above the historical "gold standard." Any player who can make about 40% of his three's has a green light any time he wants to let it fly.

It makes mathematical sense.

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

No real American in their right mind should be watching, attending, or in any way paying to see professional sports today. Got to a college, or even high school, basketball, football, baseball, or hockey game. They're better.

You have a point there...done with this topic.