Navy electronic attack aircraft heading to Germany

[Rogue AI]

Saw an article on Drudge claiming the Ukraine negotiator was poisoned. Don't know if its legit.

I heard that too, but it really makes no sense. It's not like killing negotiators would change anything. Sounds more like a badly botched false flag or simply an accident. If Russia doesn't want to negotiate they can cancel.

 

[flacaltenn]

What was it Biden said in Poland?

here's a logical explanation for that move in the Opening Post. One that DOES NOT involve the US in the conflict in fact.

Those air assets are Electronic Warfare. Putin is showing off a lot of new stuff that maybe has never been exposed as it in Ukraine. You can COLLECT electronic intelligence without ever entering Ukraine. Nothing to DO with the troops. Why would we waste a good opportunity to spy on Russian capabilities?

Might be a GOOD thing.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I heard that too, but it really makes no sense. It's not like killing negotiators would change anything. Sounds more like a badly botched false flag or simply an accident. If Russia doesn't want to negotiate they can cancel.

Billionaire Abramovich, Ukrainian peace negotiators hit by suspected poisoning -reports

Abramovich, who accepted a Ukrainian request to help negotiate an end to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and at least two senior members of the Ukrainian team, were affected, the WSJ report said. Ukrainian officials poured cold water on the report.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Damaged Eagle]

here's a logical explanation for that move. One that DOES NOT involve the US in the conflict in fact.

Those air assets are Electronic Warfare. Putin is showing off a lot of new stuff that maybe has never been exposed as it in Ukraine. You can COLLECT electronic intelligence without ever entering Ukraine. Nothing to DO with the troops. Why would we waste a good opportunity to spy on Russian capabilities?

Might be a GOOD thing.

Or the Russians are hoping to gain electronic intelligence from us and are hoping for such a move.

I'm sure China would be very interested in learning anything they can.

*****SMILE*****

 

[flacaltenn]

Basically confirms what I have been saying since this thing began.

It has always been about regime change in Russia, it is why they tricked him into invading.

Biden Confirms Why the US Needed This War​

Biden Confirms Why the US Needed This War

In a moment of candor, Joe Biden has revealed why the U.S. needed the Russian invasion and why it needs it to continue, writes Joe Lauria. By Joe Lauria Special to Consortium News The U.S. got its war in Ukraine. Without it, Washington could not attempt to destroy Russia's economy, or

consortiumnews.com

In a moment of candor, Joe Biden has revealed why the U.S. needed the Russian invasion and why it needs it to continue, writes Joe Lauria.

The Invasion Was Necessary

" . . The United States could have easily prevented Russia’s military action. It could have stopped Russia’s intervention in Ukraine’s civil war from happening by doing three things: forcing implementation of the 8-year old Minsk peace accords, dissolving extreme right Ukrainian militias and engaging Russia in serious negotiations about a new security architecture in Europe.

But it didn’t.

The U.S. can still end this war through serious diplomacy with Russia. But it won’t. Blinken has refused to speak with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. Instead, Biden announced on March 16 another $800 million in military aid for Ukraine on the same day it was revealed Russia and Ukraine have been working on a 15-point peace plan. It has never been clearer that the U.S. wanted this war and wants it to continue.

NATO troops and missiles in Eastern Europe were evidently so vital to U.S. plans that it would not discuss removing them to stop Russia’s troops from crossing into Ukraine. Russia had threatened a “technical/military” response if NATO and the U.S. did not take seriously Russia’s security interests, presented in December in the form of treaty proposals.

The U.S. knew what would happen if it rejected those proposals calling for Ukraine not to join NATO, for missiles in Poland and Romania to be removed and NATO troops in Eastern Europe withdrawn. That’s why it started screaming about an invasion in December. The U.S. refused to move the missiles and provocatively sent even more NATO forces to Eastern Europe.

MSNBC ran an article on March 4, titled, “Russia’s Ukraine invasion may have been preventable: The U.S. refused to reconsider Ukraine’s NATO status as Putin threatened war. Experts say that was a huge mistake.” The article said:



Senator Joe Biden knew as far back as 1997 that NATO expansion, which he supported, could eventually lead to a hostile Russian reaction. . . ."

Some hits, some misses there. NATO expansion WAS AND IS a provocation to Russia. If you back up to maybe 1996 or so -- it SHOULD have been SERIOUSLY slowed or halted. Biden has always been on the wrong side of every important decision. The original goal of DETERRING Russian aggression had ALREADY been achieved. That's probably a better "irritant" to relations with Russia than anything clandestine that McCain/Grahm were contemplating.

The U.S. can still end this war through serious diplomacy with Russia. But it won’t. Blinken has refused to speak with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. Instead, Biden announced on March 16 another $800 million in military aid for Ukraine on the same day it was revealed Russia and Ukraine have been working on a 15-point peace plan. It has never been clearer that the U.S. wanted this war and wants it to continue.

Dont think that coincidence is anything important. On March 16th, there were no serious talks going on between combatants. Russia sent 3rd level people to negotiate and NOTHING was resolved other than leaving open the opportunity to "try again".

The Budapest Treaty that forced denuclearization of Ukraine had Russia on the hook to "defend Ukraine from outside aggression and you've seen how much that deal got scrapped. So Minsk "peace in Eastern Ukraine" got the same veto from Russia.

And those "right-wing" militias? Can't prevent that in the disputed territories. It was a "warm" Civil War and those damn "right wingers" (which they are not) were the PRO-western democracy folks whose homes were in disputed territory. And Putin certainly had elements in there that were stirring up shit as well.

We cant' withdraw forces from Eastern Europe NATO allies.. Not possible. Any time joint training or instruction is required we'd be violating that agreement.

THe boat SAILED for Putin when NATO expansion never slowed down. It would make US paranoid to see the Chinese and their "Belt and Road" initiative expand right up Central America and Mexico as well.

 

[Rogue AI]

Billionaire Abramovich, Ukrainian peace negotiators hit by suspected poisoning -reports

Abramovich, who accepted a Ukrainian request to help negotiate an end to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and at least two senior members of the Ukrainian team, were affected, the WSJ report said. Ukrainian officials poured cold water on the report.

news.yahoo.com

That article also says US Intel doesn't think it was poisoning. It happened awhile ago. Just more bogus propaganda.

 

[flacaltenn]

High point for Euro/NATO/Russia peace was probably around the Partnership for Peace Initiative in mid -90s before that fell apart. Almost ALL of Europe/Russia/Remaining independent Soviet states were Signed on. From there -- it all went downhill.

Also just before MAJOR NATO expansion in the Balkans and elsewhere on Russia's border.

Interesting reading..

Partnership for Peace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[toobfreak]

War seems inevitable at this point.

Yeah, well, for one thing:

1. Biddum said that no matter what, under no circumstances would the United States go to war with Russia over Ukraine! Which of course doesn't mean diddly squat with that guy. He lies about everything then uses his senility and geriatrics as a cover to excuse his behavior. Never mind that we still haven't gotten an answer to the FIRST question: what possible strategic value does little shithole Ukraine hold for America's security to justify any war?
2. All the USA or NATO need to do to avoid war is to simply not GO to war. After all, Putin is having a skirmish with Ukraine in far east Europe on the other side of the world, not charging over the hill toward the Potomac River.

 

[HaShev]

What was it Biden said in Poland?

>>>>What was it Biden said in Poland?

 

[Esdraelon]

None of this makes any logical or even illogical sense. I refuse to accept that these policymakers do not understand the dangers here. Perhaps there are facts in play behind the scenes that cause them to be willing to take these chances, but unless they've been assured Putin cannot use nukes (who could assure them?) then they are risking devastation of this planet and a massive death toll. What can be worth that risk?

 

[toobfreak]

showed symptoms that included red eyes, constant and painful tearing, and peeling skin on their faces and hands.

Really? Poisoning? That sounds like what I go through everytime I just see or hear Biddum talking again on the television!

 

[Rogue AI]

None of this makes any logical or even illogical sense. I refuse to accept that these policymakers do not understand the dangers here. Perhaps there are facts in play behind the scenes that cause them to be willing to take these chances, but unless they've been assured Putin cannot use nukes (who could assure them?) then they are risking devastation of this planet and a massive death toll. What can be worth that risk?

These are basically the same morons who overthrew Mubarak in Egypt to bring democracy without ever considering the people would elect terrorists. Then backed a coup to overthrow the democratically elected new government. Yes, they are that stupid. These people do not comprehend consequences, so all of us dying isn't even a concern for them, even if it kills them too.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Let's hope you are right. In a game of global chess, winner take all, Putin will not flinch and Biden will be unable to stay awake. America lacks adequate leadership to fight, let alone win, a third world war. That is of course unless any such third world war ends up being a staged endeavor.

China is the real winner in a US/Russia war.

 

[beagle9]

After Biden's regime change comments it's either war or toss Twinkle Toes Zelensky under the bus. I'm betting on the bus.

Don't know what's going to happen, but one things for sure, and that is that Biden and company are a national security risk for the U.S.. I'll say it till the end. Anyone that believes in this current government has a screw loose.

 

[beagle9]

Biden's escalation was the staged event. He was to lead the West in sanctions, Putin was supposed to back down and it would have been a Biden win. That failed, miserably. Europe doesn't want war, so this is basically done unless Biden's people are bigger idiots than we can imagine.

We are dealing with people that aren't dealing with a full deck... It's sad, but a reality.

 

[beagle9]

here's a logical explanation for that move in the Opening Post. One that DOES NOT involve the US in the conflict in fact.

Those air assets are Electronic Warfare. Putin is showing off a lot of new stuff that maybe has never been exposed as it in Ukraine. You can COLLECT electronic intelligence without ever entering Ukraine. Nothing to DO with the troops. Why would we waste a good opportunity to spy on Russian capabilities?

Might be a GOOD thing.

Advertising it is not a good thing, because it could be construed as continuing to create a war posture. How stupid are militaries and governments of today ?? There is already thousand's dying, and in the theater death becomes glorified, so dying becomes easier, and bad decisions cause dying to become more of a possibility when people are backed into their respective corner's.

 

[Delldude]

here's a logical explanation for that move in the Opening Post. One that DOES NOT involve the US in the conflict in fact.

Those air assets are Electronic Warfare. Putin is showing off a lot of new stuff that maybe has never been exposed as it in Ukraine. You can COLLECT electronic intelligence without ever entering Ukraine. Nothing to DO with the troops. Why would we waste a good opportunity to spy on Russian capabilities?

Might be a GOOD thing.

They do that with satellites and AWACS.

 

[badger2]

They do that with satellites and AWACS.

According to Kennedy's, The Real Anthony Fauci, it was very likely MI6-CIA who hacked TASS on 28 Feb. India has some historical material for a more balanced chron in English:

Tass: Latest News, Videos and Photos of Tass | Times of India

tass News: Latest and Breaking News on tass. Explore tass profile at Times of India for photos, videos and latest news of tass. Also find news, photos and videos on tass

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[badger2]

Yeah, well, for one thing:

1. Biddum said that no matter what, under no circumstances would the United States go to war with Russia over Ukraine! Which of course doesn't mean diddly squat with that guy. He lies about everything then uses his senility and geriatrics as a cover to excuse his behavior. Never mind that we still haven't gotten an answer to the FIRST question: what possible strategic value does little shithole Ukraine hold for America's security to justify any war?
2. All the USA or NATO need to do to avoid war is to simply not GO to war. After all, Putin is having a skirmish with Ukraine in far east Europe on the other side of the world, not charging over the hill toward the Potomac River.

1, Ukrainian chernozhem.
2. US and NATO are both schizoid and expansionist.

 

[MisterBeale]

Some hits, some misses there. NATO expansion WAS AND IS a provocation to Russia. If you back up to maybe 1996 or so -- it SHOULD have been SERIOUSLY slowed or halted. Biden has always been on the wrong side of every important decision. The original goal of DETERRING Russian aggression had ALREADY been achieved. That's probably a better "irritant" to relations with Russia than anything clandestine that McCain/Grahm were contemplating.



Dont think that coincidence is anything important. On March 16th, there were no serious talks going on between combatants. Russia sent 3rd level people to negotiate and NOTHING was resolved other than leaving open the opportunity to "try again".

The Budapest Treaty that forced denuclearization of Ukraine had Russia on the hook to "defend Ukraine from outside aggression and you've seen how much that deal got scrapped. So Minsk "peace in Eastern Ukraine" got the same veto from Russia.

And those "right-wing" militias? Can't prevent that in the disputed territories. It was a "warm" Civil War and those damn "right wingers" (which they are not) were the PRO-western democracy folks whose homes were in disputed territory. And Putin certainly had elements in there that were stirring up shit as well.

We cant' withdraw forces from Eastern Europe NATO allies.. Not possible. Any time joint training or instruction is required we'd be violating that agreement.

THe boat SAILED for Putin when NATO expansion never slowed down. It would make US paranoid to see the Chinese and their "Belt and Road" initiative expand right up Central America and Mexico as well.

I'm not sure if you have made errors, if you have been a victim of restricted information, because of the media climate, or if I am just reading your post wrong . . but let me parse this out. . .

Dont think that coincidence is anything important. On March 16th, there were no serious talks going on between combatants. Russia sent 3rd level people to negotiate and NOTHING was resolved other than leaving open the opportunity to "try again".

The level of diplomatic authority I am not sure, is so much an issue. The problem, as I have been informed, is that the far right wing, Neo-nazi contingents, have been included on the Ukraine side. In some of the first talks, some progress had been made, and they actually either threatened, or killed one of the negotiators before they got back to Zelenskyy . the level of corruption and violence on the Ukraine side, is atrocious, so I am not sure why the Russians would ever even think they have partners they can deal with. If you go back over the history of how we even got the current Ukraine administration, it is as corrupt as Russia's administration, there isn't any trust for negotiation, on either side.

The Budapest Treaty that forced denuclearization of Ukraine had Russia on the hook to "defend Ukraine from outside aggression and you've seen how much that deal got scrapped. So Minsk "peace in Eastern Ukraine" got the same veto from Russia.

I had wondered, quite a bit about the contents of that Budapest Treaty, and the collection of agreements that the Americans, Brits, and Russia signed. The government, media, and thinks tanks have sure gas-lit the population an awful lot about the contents of them. . . so I went looking for what they actually say, as I do not trust governments, nor corporate media. There is a former military intelligence and diplomatic core member on this site; RoccoR, and we did get into a disagreement of this. I had previously gotten into a disagreement on this with Politiachic, because she just accepted, unquestionably, the Anglo-American propaganda on this issue.

If you would like to see how we came to accord on this, it is here;

Historical background of the conflict in Ukraine

I understood all the ins and outs of this conflict. Historically, in the northern Black Sea region, on the territory of Ukraine, there lived Poles, descendants of the Sarmatians and Turks (true ethnic Turks, Torks), the population of the Hetmanate. Bandera justify their claims to the whole of...

www.usmessageboard.com

The upshot? Not one of the great powers ever signed to be "on the hook," for the defense of Ukraine. They DID all, however, agree, not to violate Ukraine's sovereignty, and if it were violated, to abide by a 1972 accord on European security cooperation, called, “Helsinki Final Act.” I believe this is part of the Security outline that Russia had in mind, that it wanted to negotiate. . . which you are ignoring. . .

I found it interesting, that a full copy of the Budabpest agreement, can not be found on-line. You must actually go find a physical copy. I don't doubt that this is no accident. The best resource I found was in an archieval article from the Council on Foreign Relations, that we discussed at the above link.

And those "right-wing" militias? Can't prevent that in the disputed territories. It was a "warm" Civil War and those damn "right wingers" (which they are not) were the PRO-western democracy folks whose homes were in disputed territory. And Putin certainly had elements in there that were stirring up shit as well.

The homes of the "pro-democary folks" were NOT in the disputed territory. You are woefully misinformed on this issue. The "damn right wingers" are in the area of historical regions of Red Ruthenia and Galicia. This is the home of Stepan Bandera, their national hero, a man who the western allies, not only shielded from the Nuremberg Trials, but squirreled away to the US, and later used as a tool for stay behind operations against the Soviets. If you don't know who he is, or how he is in inspiration for those who have attacked and continued the civil war in Donbas, get up to speed. . . OTH? Yes, you are correct, Russia has funded the ethnic Russians defense against these folks.

Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lviv - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Are There Nazis in Ukraine? A Visit to Lviv

Pictures of protesters wearing Nazi insignia, and later Ukrainian army soldiers with fascist beliefs, have raised alarm.

truthout.org

We cant' withdraw forces from Eastern Europe NATO allies.. Not possible. Any time joint training or instruction is required we'd be violating that agreement.

I don't think that is a non-negotiable point. The article that I read, about what was desired, before Ukraine lined 122,000 troops up on the border of Donbas, and Russia put out it's desires in January, seemed? To me to be quite reasonable. The US was one of only two nations to vote against a resolution at the UN, “combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fueling contemporary forms of racism”. The other? Ukraine.

". . . Almost every Russian knows that it was across the plains of Ukraine’s “borderland” that Hitler’s divisions swept from the west in 1941, bolstered by Ukraine’s Nazi cultists and collaborators. The result was more than 20 million Russian dead.

Setting aside the manoeuvres and cynicism of geopolitics, whomever the players, this historical memory is the driving force behind Russia’s respect-seeking, self-protective security proposals, which were published in Moscow in the week the UN voted 130-2 to outlaw Nazism. They are:

+ NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)

+ NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.

+ Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.

+ the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact.

+ the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)

These amount to a comprehensive draft of a peace plan for all of post-war Europe and ought to be welcomed in the West. But who understands their significance in Britain? What they are told is that Putin is a pariah and a threat to Christendom.

Russian-speaking Ukrainians, under economic blockade by Kyiv for seven years, are fighting for their survival. The “massing” army we seldom hear about are the thirteen Ukrainian army brigades laying siege to Donbas: an estimated 150,000 troops. If they attack, the provocation to Russia will almost certainly mean war.. . ."

War in Europe and the Rise of Raw Propaganda

Marshall McLuhan’s prophecy that “the successor to politics will be propaganda” has happened. Raw propaganda is now the rule in Western democracies, especially the US and Britain On matters of war and peace, ministerial deceit is reported as news. Inconvenient facts are censored, demons are...

www.counterpunch.org

THe boat SAILED for Putin when NATO expansion never slowed down. It would make US paranoid to see the Chinese and their "Belt and Road" initiative expand right up Central America and Mexico as well.

Agreed. I have been saying since this whole thing began, since Nuland and the corporations triggered these coups and Orange revolutions in Ukraine, it isn't about Ukraine, it is about getting new leadership in Russia, so that the West can have the energy and rare Earth resources in Russia.

Most of us in the west, actually believe that Russia is using all of its military power, and military might on Ukraine. We aren't be told that it is purposely fighting a limited engagement, with limited strategic goals at this point. Folks are being brainwashed to think this is as dangerous as Russia's military is. . .

. . . and frankly, I think it is dangerous.