Native Americans were more noble than us, and other stupid white hippy myths

[Sky Dancer]

Hi roomy. I've missed you.

 

[roomy]

Hi roomy. I've missed you.

I haven't been anywhere but thanks anyway

 

[ABikerSailor]

There were man notable honourable and noble Indians during the period in question but a distinct lack of likewise white men.

Yep. You realize that this country was founded on genocide? The Europeans wanted the land all for themselves, and, because the Native Americans looked different, the Europeans figured they were somehow more "superior" to them.

Unfortunately, they weren't. The many herds of buffalo that used to roam the Great Plains.......gone. Same with a great deal many things the Indians knew.

Some of that knowledge may end up going the way of the Library of Alexandria.

I used to be friends with a few either half or full blood Native Americans. The old ones are really cool to talk to (if they trust you), and they can teach you some VERY useful stuff.

 

[catzmeow]

Yep. You realize that this country was founded on genocide? The Europeans wanted the land all for themselves, and, because the Native Americans looked different, the Europeans figured they were somehow more "superior" to them.

This is precisely why Sky refuses to sing our national anthem.

 

[manu1959]

quote me.


I look forward to taking a gander at your evidence..

post 2 and 5 in this thread for starters....

 

[hansom]

From my understanding, some tribes burned sections of forest, just to drive out the wild animals (which they would shoot and eat).
So there goes the idea of noble savage that coexists with nature.


I would say that indians building casinos pretty much destroys any concept of noble savage right there. especially when so many of them take that privilege and waste it on beer and drugs......

 

[manu1959]

my best friend growing up was full blooded washoe county indian....wassou indians....anyway....my great great grandfather helped settle frank town.....we always used to joke with each other that the probably fought at one time for the land.....

every country was taken via "genocide" .... not that that makes it right it is just what humans do......the indians did it to each other.....the europeans did it to each other to form their nations.....the russsians...the chinese....the africans....it is part of the human condition......

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yep. You realize that this country was founded on genocide? The Europeans wanted the land all for themselves, and, because the Native Americans looked different, the Europeans figured they were somehow more "superior" to them.

This is precisely why Sky refuses to sing our national anthem.

Well, nothing says that she has to. Hell......I won't even tell her that she's gotta sing, I will however request that she stand and acknowledge the flag. Singing ain't required.

And........if you think about it........

You wanting Sky to do what you want her to do goes against God. Did you know that?

It's called "free will", which means that you can choose to follow it or not.

And.....before you start going all Biblical on me and tell me about the 10 Commandments being commandments, I'll tell ya you're wrong.

Free will again. God tells us what He would prefer us to do, which is why He wrote the Torah for us, which later grew into the Bible.

If you're looking for places where God makes it a commandment? Look at the story of Jonah. If God tells you personally, not via the Bible, you better do it.

Otherwise, it's just pretty much a suggestion.

So no.....there is absolutely no requirement for Sky to sing.

 

[catzmeow]

Well, nothing says that she has to.

NO, but if she can't support this country, I wonder why she remains.

 

[editec]

Nobility is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well, nothing says that she has to.

NO, but if she can't support this country, I wonder why she remains.

I would ask the same of Sunnidiot, as well as a whole bunch of other assholes on this board.

Cobalt Blue (you know.....the one that calls military retirees "welfare bums"), is another one. He's a failed priest who couldn't leave his little friends' behind.

Doesn't matter if she sings or not, as long as she stands and acknowledges the flag.

What if a person has an unmusical voice? Should they sing also, even if they get embarrassed easily?

 

[Angel Heart]

From my understanding, some tribes burned sections of forest, just to drive out the wild animals (which they would shoot and eat).
So there goes the idea of noble savage that coexists with nature.


I would say that indians building casinos pretty much destroys any concept of noble savage right there. especially when so many of them take that privilege and waste it on beer and drugs......

The natives of the Yosemite Valley would burn the meadows yearly. Now they are more likely for deadly forest fires due to the amount of undergrowth. Fire also helped with their food source.

InCalifornia.org - Park Profiles: Yosemite - Indians of Yosemite

Every season the Yosemite tribe would burn the meadows which would, in turn, kill off the small undergrowth of the encroaching pine forest as well as promote the growth of the Black Oak which provided the essential acorns. Regular burning of the valley floor would eliminate dense undergrowth which would reveal potential enemies and help to lessen to danger of a forest fire. Only recently have modern fire suppression tactics reverted to this method of periodic burning of the underbrush in order to reduce the impact of a natural—or man-made—fire.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yep. You realize that this country was founded on genocide? The Europeans wanted the land all for themselves, and, because the Native Americans looked different, the Europeans figured they were somehow more "superior" to them.

This is precisely why Sky refuses to sing our national anthem.

I refuse to sing the national anthem for the same reason I do not recite the pledge of allegiance.

The 'view' in Buddhist meditation is anathema to nationalism.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yep. You realize that this country was founded on genocide? The Europeans wanted the land all for themselves, and, because the Native Americans looked different, the Europeans figured they were somehow more "superior" to them.

This is precisely why Sky refuses to sing our national anthem.

Well, nothing says that she has to. Hell......I won't even tell her that she's gotta sing, I will however request that she stand and acknowledge the flag. Singing ain't required.

And........if you think about it........

You wanting Sky to do what you want her to do goes against God. Did you know that?

It's called "free will", which means that you can choose to follow it or not.

And.....before you start going all Biblical on me and tell me about the 10 Commandments being commandments, I'll tell ya you're wrong.

Free will again. God tells us what He would prefer us to do, which is why He wrote the Torah for us, which later grew into the Bible.

If you're looking for places where God makes it a commandment? Look at the story of Jonah. If God tells you personally, not via the Bible, you better do it.

Otherwise, it's just pretty much a suggestion.

So no.....there is absolutely no requirement for Sky to sing.

Thank you. I always stand silently in respect for others. I don't sing the anthem or recite the pledge of allegiance out of respect for my spiritual views.

 

[eots]

Native culture was extremely diverse ..with very different rules and customs and language from one region to the next

 

[Agnapostate]

"Native Americans"? There were a wide variety of Native American tribes and nations with a vast array of differing cultural practices. For instance, the democratic Iroquois looked greatly (internally) humane in comparison to the authoritarian Aztecs. I really don't see any purpose in defining "Native Americans" as one collective group any more than choosing to define "Europeans" as one collective group. "Attacking political correctness" itself seems to be the new in thing to do, thus losing its claim of "unorthodoxy."

 

[Agnapostate]

NO, but if she can't support this country, I wonder why she remains.

Maybe because she isn't a crude nationalist.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Their idealization of the natives as noble probably came from the fact that the stereotypical Native American tribe had ideals more in line with theirs than mainstream America: The idea of being stewards of the land instead of owning it, e.g., “We do not inherit the land from our ancestors. We borrow it from our children,” i.e. communal living and environmentalism. Though they were technologically far behind the invaders (in most areas, at least), their average standard of living was often better than the majority of Europeans. Being a European peasant during the age of exploration was not a happy existence. Hippies admire that the Native American way of life was relatively sustainable, free, and egalitarian. They also often had a rich cultural heritage and beautiful artwork – which are things that hippies value, lol.

On the other end of the spectrum, we have people who portray natives as bloodthirsty savages who liked to scalp innocent settlers. While that did occur, it is also true that scalping may have been copied from bounty hunters who did it to prove they had killed natives. Certainly neither side was blameless, though the Whites were technically invaders and it's hard to say what gave them the right to drive Natives from their lands. Nevertheless I'm not into blaming people for things their ancestors did.

As others have said, it is a mistake to think of Native Americans as a homogenous culture. To be sure, there were warrior tribes prone to cruelty, but the Europeans proved adept at that as well. Some tribes were more peaceful, though.

Well, nothing says that she has to.

NO, but if she can't support this country, I wonder why she remains.

Suppose you lived in a country you didn't support but all of your friends, family, and everything you had ever known was there. If you move, your isolation is likely to increase, and your standard of living is likely to go down, partly because being an immigrant is likely a challenge and you'd be a second class citizen to some extent wherever you went. Plus, how would moving solve anything? Wouldn't it be better, in most cases, to acknowledge both its faults and accomplishments, possibly allowing you to help improve it? I don't understand people who wave flags and shout down anybody who points out something their country has done wrong.

 

[editec]

I have met one "self proclaiming hippie" (who incidently wouldn't know what REAL hipdom was if it smacked her in the face) who beleived the sor of myths about the nobility of the AmerIndians that you ascripe to the Hip tribe.

She was a forking moron. She was also a misandonist, hated white people and Christians. She was a scion who never worked a day in her life and felt supeior to most working people becuase they were so de classe.

In other words she was a delusional self-agrandizing dipshit.

She was that stereotypical "hippie" that so many of you think describes the whole tribe.

But folks, I AM A HIPPIE, and I don't live down to the idea some of you seem to think describes the mental state of hipdom.

If you hate hippies, next time you need a joint, call a cop.

 

[catzmeow]

But folks, I AM A HIPPIE, and I don't live down to the idea some of you seem to think describes the mental state of hipdom.

True. I have a great deal of respect for how you live.