N. Korea fires on S. Korea - It was a clear provocation!!

[Ozmar]

BBC News - Border clash prompts South Korean missile warning

So you are saying this is all South Korea's fault? Typical apologist.

Why are you posting your personal pics on here?

I know it may be hard for you to comprehend the intended humor, but the picture was supposed to be of you.

Doubt it, I'm not white.

Sure you are. You're some white dude posing as a black dude online. Think I haven't seen your lot many times over? Poser.

 

[High_Gravity]

So you are saying this is all South Korea's fault? Typical apologist.

I know it may be hard for you to comprehend the intended humor, but the picture was supposed to be of you.

Doubt it, I'm not white.

Sure you are. You're some white dude posing as a black dude online. Think I haven't seen your lot many times over? Poser.

Who said I was black jack ass? black people and white people are the only 2 races in the world.

 

[Valerie]

South Korea says it will retaliate with missile strikes against the North if faced with "further provocations", after an exchange of fire in which two South Korean marines were killed.

President Lee Myung-bak was responding to the shelling of an inhabited island close to a disputed maritime border.

The South returned fire in one of the worst clashes since the Korean War.

US President Barack Obama called the incident an "outrageous, provocative act" by Pyongyang.

He was speaking ahead of an expected telephone call to President Lee.

The South Korean military had been carrying out an exercise near Yeonpyeong island, and the North accused the South of opening the hostilities - something Seoul denies.

The South says North Korean shells started falling in the waters off the island at 1434 local time (0534 GMT) on Tuesday.

At least 50 landed directly on the island, most of them hitting a South Korean military base there. In addition to the two deaths, 16 South Korean marines and three civilians were injured.

The South fired back some 80 shells. Casualties on the northern side are unknown.

BBC News - Border clash prompts South Korean missile warning

So you are saying this is all South Korea's fault? Typical apologist.

So are you saying you beat your wife? Typical wife beater!

 

[Ozmar]

Doubt it, I'm not white.

Sure you are. You're some white dude posing as a black dude online. Think I haven't seen your lot many times over? Poser.

Who said I was black jack ass? black people and white people are the only 2 races in the world.

I didn't say you were black. I said you are a white dude posing as a black dude. I in effect said you are white. Learn how to read.

 

[Ozmar]

BBC News - Border clash prompts South Korean missile warning

So you are saying this is all South Korea's fault? Typical apologist.

So are you saying you beat your wife? Typical wife beater!

Red herring.

If you were my wife I probably would be a wife beater.

The wife beating analogy works if you say "it was the wife's fault."

 

[Valerie]

If you were my wife I probably would be a wife beater.

Nice!

 

[Ozmar]

If you were my wife I probably would be a wife beater.

Nice!

If you plan to sling shit, expect to get yourself dirtied. Kind of like North Korea.

 

[Valerie]

So you are saying this is all South Korea's fault? Typical apologist.

So are you saying you beat your wife? Typical wife beater!

Red herring.

If you were my wife I probably would be a wife beater.

The wife beating analogy works if you say "it was the wife's fault."

PS genius, you pulled the accusation that I'm a North Korea apologist out of your ass just like I pulled you're a wife beater out of mine...Get it now?


I happen to have a dear loved one serving in the US Army over in South Korea, so you can STFU any time now, asshole.

 

[Ozmar]

So are you saying you beat your wife? Typical wife beater!

Red herring.

If you were my wife I probably would be a wife beater.

The wife beating analogy works if you say "it was the wife's fault."

PS genius, you pulled the accusation that I'm a North Korea apologist out of your ass just like I pulled you're a wife beater out of mine...Get it now?


I happen to have a dear loved one serving in the US Army over in South Korea, so you can STFU any time now, asshole.

I have bolded the offending part of your quote. Spin on it.

 

[Trajan]

Last March they sank a so kor. DD with the loss of 46 lives. One would think we’d have had a plan to handle another similar provocation and when I say we I mean the so kos and the US since we are in this context inextricably tied into the region and the peninsula ala a defense pact etc. ANY responses actions etc. are of course driven by the South Kos since they are the target and lose the lives and would suffer the most if any outbreak of mass hostilities occurs.

At the end of the day, nothing that will tip the cart will be done from/by the south, imho. They won’t close the means that provides the Norths largest infusion of hard cash, via the Kaesong industrial complex. That would hurt most, but alas.

Though the north abuses the system that is setup, basically robbing the payrolls of up to 50% of the funds sent to pay the norths workers there ( by the south and us), the south doesn’t want to cause the collapse of the north, because unlike the Germans (west/east uni.) they have no taste for a peninsula/country wide unification.

So, despite the list of awfuls perpetrated by the north- so. Ko cabinet members assassinated, airliner shot down, ships sunk, commandos landed to kill so kos, snatch and grabs of so kor. Citizens, nuclear proliferation etc., the north after all has nukes and they can and many believe they would bomb Seoul , this is the final wild card. This what comes of hard intimidation and soft blackmail.

Winter is upon the north, as usual their economy is a mess, they need food stuffs, fuel, money And the south ( and us) once this dies down will send it. Watch. The north has played the last 2 admins. here and is playing the third.


One wonders what will happen should other bad actors acquire nuclear weapons, there by making rendering themselves hands off.

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, you mind giving us some links that lead to some validated sources?

JakeStarkey:

Link 1 from the Left:

"Korea was a Japanese colony from 1910 to 1945.

"As the Japanese prepared to surrender to the Allies, they did what they did elsewhere in Asia: they turned over power to local people in the hope that the western powers wouldn't colonize, or continue to colonize, Asian nations.

"(One of the principle outcomes of the Pacific War was that it indeed helped produce the end of colonial administrations in the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Malaysia, etc.)

"Leaders of self-governing people's committees opposed to Japanese occupation formed the 'Korean People's Republic' in Seoul on September 6, 1945.

Note: Korean War began 25 June 1950.

"It had a broad-based leadership ranging from right to left.

"When Lieutenant General John R. Hodge, leader of the U.S. occupation of Korea, arrived in Inchon soon thereafter, he ordered Japanese authorities to remain at their posts, refused to acknowledge the newly-formed republic, and indeed even banned all reference to it.

"The U.S. would be in charge of what was seen as a defeated enemy nation. This attitude produced widespread resentment and resistance in Korea.

Imagine that.

Possibly the Koreans who had been united from the 7th Century until 1945 thought they could manage their own country.

One of the few things Koreans from North and South agree on today is that the reason they're no longer united is "due primarily to the actions of the Truman administration and the US military."

North Korea for Dummies

 

[Trajan]

we propped up Rhee after ww2 when it became apparent the ussr and Chinese were screwing around, but frankly it goes back further than that good ole Teddy played the Koreas too ( so did Taft) in their days.
And Rhee was no angel, far from it.

 

[Toome]

I remember in 1984 when a Soviet citizen ran across the Line of Demarcation in the JSA into South Korea trying to defect. North Korean guards chased after him, firing their weapons. The joint US-ROK JSA troops returned fire, established a defensive perimeter while a company-sized quick reaction force immediately deployed into the JSA and outmaneuvered the North Koreans. It was about a 45-minute firefight that resulted in 3 dead North Korean soldiers, 5 wounded and about a dozen of them captured. Rumor had it that bombers were already airborne from Clark AFB enroute to the Korean Peninsula and that certain "special assets" were already activated. Don't know how much of that is truth and how much is fiction; however, it would not surprise me if it was more truth than urban legend.

When that incident happened, rumor had it that South Korean military officers, upon being alerted, went through the ritual of cutting themselves, letting the blood drop into a creek or river, and yelled "Tong-il" (One land, one people!). This is what convinced me that we were not there to protect the South from the North. We're there to keep the South from taking over the North.

Unification is a very emotional and deeply cultural issue for the Koreans. At least it was when I was there in 1984-85 & 1998-99. While many speculate on the North Korean's "million man army" and supposed nuclear strike capability, I think the South is militarily superior, is much better trained, better equipped and more motivated. If this turns into a shooting war, I think the South would destroy the North. It would be a very bloody war with tremendous civilian casualties, but the South would prevail.

Hope we never find out.

 

[georgephillip]

I guess the north shouldn't have invaded the south then. You know, that whole actions having consequences thing.

The North Koreans "invaded" in response to a US occupation that was killing thousands of Koreans who wanted the Americans to go the hell home.

The fact you're too brainwashed to know your own history is the only bull I see.

If the North Koreans had succeeded, South Korea would be sharing the North's prosperity right now. American bastards!

Pop Quiz on Korea:

"After the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-5, Japan acquired control over Korea, annexing it formally in 1910. In 1905 Japanese Prime Minister Katsura Tarô met secretly with U.S. Secretary of War William Howard Taft, producing the Taft-Katsura Agreement in which the U.S. recognized Japan's interests in Korea. What did the U.S. receive in return?

a. Japanese agreement to limit emigration to the U.S.

b. Japanese recognition of U.S. colonial rule over the Philippines.

c. Japan's renunciation to all claims to the Hawai'ian Islands.

"At the Yalta Conference in February 1945, U.S. President Roosevelt and Soviet leader Joseph Stalin discussed the postwar future of Korea. Stalin advocated independence as soon as possible. Roosevelt

a. agreed to immediate independence

b. advocated a trusteeship of 20-30 years, citing the positive example of U.S. rule in the Philippines

c. suggested Korea remain a part of the Japanese Empire, to be occupied by Allied forces.

"In August 1945 defeated Japanese forces formally turned over authority in Korea to the broad-based Committee for the Preparation of Korean Independence, led by Lyuh Woon-hyung, which in September proclaimed the Korean People's Republic (KPR). When U.S. forces under Gen. Reed Hodge arrived in Inchon to accept the Japanese surrender, they

a. ordered all Japanese officials to remain in their posts, refused to recognize Lyuh as national leader, and soon banned all public reference to the KPR

b. recognized Lyuh as the legitimate head of state

c. negotiated with Lyuh to facilitate swift attainment of independence of a united Korea.

"How many people, military plus civilians, died in the Korean War?

a. 500,000-1 million

b. 1 million-2 million

c. about 4 million

Bonus Question:

As of December 31, 2002

"Current South Korean public opinion polls indicate that the foreign country people most fear is

a. the U.S.

b. North Korea

c. China

?

 

[GHook93]

I think Clint Eastwood speaks for all of us when he says:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CipXIx34jTI[/ame]

The North Koreans "invaded" in response to a US occupation that was killing thousands of Koreans who wanted the Americans to go the hell home.

The fact you're too brainwashed to know your own history is the only bull I see.

If the North Koreans had succeeded, South Korea would be sharing the North's prosperity right now. American bastards!

Pop Quiz on Korea:

"After the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-5, Japan acquired control over Korea, annexing it formally in 1910. In 1905 Japanese Prime Minister Katsura Tarô met secretly with U.S. Secretary of War William Howard Taft, producing the Taft-Katsura Agreement in which the U.S. recognized Japan's interests in Korea. What did the U.S. receive in return?

a. Japanese agreement to limit emigration to the U.S.

b. Japanese recognition of U.S. colonial rule over the Philippines.

c. Japan's renunciation to all claims to the Hawai'ian Islands.

"At the Yalta Conference in February 1945, U.S. President Roosevelt and Soviet leader Joseph Stalin discussed the postwar future of Korea. Stalin advocated independence as soon as possible. Roosevelt

a. agreed to immediate independence

b. advocated a trusteeship of 20-30 years, citing the positive example of U.S. rule in the Philippines

c. suggested Korea remain a part of the Japanese Empire, to be occupied by Allied forces.

"In August 1945 defeated Japanese forces formally turned over authority in Korea to the broad-based Committee for the Preparation of Korean Independence, led by Lyuh Woon-hyung, which in September proclaimed the Korean People's Republic (KPR). When U.S. forces under Gen. Reed Hodge arrived in Inchon to accept the Japanese surrender, they

a. ordered all Japanese officials to remain in their posts, refused to recognize Lyuh as national leader, and soon banned all public reference to the KPR

b. recognized Lyuh as the legitimate head of state

c. negotiated with Lyuh to facilitate swift attainment of independence of a united Korea.

"How many people, military plus civilians, died in the Korean War?

a. 500,000-1 million

b. 1 million-2 million

c. about 4 million

Bonus Question:

As of December 31, 2002

"Current South Korean public opinion polls indicate that the foreign country people most fear is

a. the U.S.

b. North Korea

c. China

?

 

[georgephillip]

I guess the north shouldn't have invaded the south then. You know, that whole actions having consequences thing.

The North Koreans "invaded" in response to a US occupation that was killing thousands of Koreans who wanted the Americans to go the hell home.

The fact you're too brainwashed to know your own history is the only bull I see.

What nonsense. The north invaded in an attempt to reunify the peninsula under communist rule. They failed and millions of Koreans died as a result. As far as your attempt to blame the US "occupation", we had virtually no troops in Korea at the time the north invaded. Most had been withdrawn the year before.

We had about 500 troops in 1950 after using the preceding five years to impose a right-wing dictator, Syngman Rhee and his security forces, that included former Japanese collaborators, on a South Korean population that wanted no part of Rhee or his western benefactors.

"In December 1945, Korea was administered by a US–USSR Joint Commission, as agreed at the Moscow Conference (1945).

"The Koreans were excluded from the talks.

"The commission decided the country would become independent after a five-year trusteeship action facilitated by each régime sharing its sponsor's ideology.[38]:25–6[63]

"The Korean populace revolted; in the south, some protested, and some rose in arms;[39] to contain them, the USAMGIK banned strikes on 8 December 1945 and outlawed the PRK Revolutionary Government and the PRK People's Committees on 12 December 1945.

"On 23 September 1946 an 8,000-strong railroad worker strike began in Pusan. Civil disorder spread throughout the country in what became known as the Autumn uprising.

"On 1 October 1946, Korean police killed three students in the Daegu Uprising; protesters counter-attacked, killing 38 policemen.

"On 3 October, some 10,000 people attacked the Yeongcheon police station, killing three policemen and injuring some 40 more; elsewhere, some 20 landlords and pro-Japanese South Korean officials were killed.[60]

"The USAMGIK declared martial law.

"The right-wing Representative Democratic Council, led by nationalist Syngman Rhee, opposed the Soviet–American trusteeship of Korea, arguing that after 35 years (1910–45) of Japanese colonial rule most Koreans opposed another foreign occupation.

"The USAMGIK decided to forego the five year trusteeship agreed upon in Moscow, given the 31 March 1948 United Nations election deadline to achieve an anti-communist civil government in the US Korean Zone of Occupation.

"On 3 April what began as a demonstration commemorating Korean resistance to Japanese rule ended with the Jeju massacre of as many as 60,000 citizens by South Korean soldiers."

It was incidents like Jeju that led "North" Korea to "invade."

Korean War - Wiki

 

[Foxfyre]

The Jeju rebellion was a Korean rebellion against JAPANESE rule and had little, if anything, to do with the war between the North and South.

The war was started by the North Koreans invading the south not due to any kind of retaliation but to bring South Korea under communist rule. After getting permission from the USSR along with their assurance the USA would not interfere, Kim Il Sung launched a surprise invasion of South Korea on June 25, 1950. In the following days, the UN Security Council condemned the attack and demanded an immediate withdrawal. I lost two family members in that conflict and an uncle who later died young in part due to severe injuries sustained in Korea.

 

[JakeStarkey]

georgephillip, you mind giving us some links that lead to some validated sources?

JakeStarkey:

Link 1 from the Left:

"Korea was a Japanese colony from 1910 to 1945.

"As the Japanese prepared to surrender to the Allies, they did what they did elsewhere in Asia: they turned over power to local people in the hope that the western powers wouldn't colonize, or continue to colonize, Asian nations.

"(One of the principle outcomes of the Pacific War was that it indeed helped produce the end of colonial administrations in the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Malaysia, etc.)

"Leaders of self-governing people's committees opposed to Japanese occupation formed the 'Korean People's Republic' in Seoul on September 6, 1945.

Note: Korean War began 25 June 1950.

"It had a broad-based leadership ranging from right to left.

"When Lieutenant General John R. Hodge, leader of the U.S. occupation of Korea, arrived in Inchon soon thereafter, he ordered Japanese authorities to remain at their posts, refused to acknowledge the newly-formed republic, and indeed even banned all reference to it.

"The U.S. would be in charge of what was seen as a defeated enemy nation. This attitude produced widespread resentment and resistance in Korea.

Imagine that.

Possibly the Koreans who had been united from the 7th Century until 1945 thought they could manage their own country.

One of the few things Koreans from North and South agree on today is that the reason they're no longer united is "due primarily to the actions of the Truman administration and the US military."

North Korea for Dummies

No, the Japanese never turned over power to the conquered peoples because they would have murdered their oppressors, particularly the Korean. I served two tours there, and even then they hated the Japanese.

You did not document thousands of deaths caused by American occupation.

American, British, French, Dutch authorities all had the Japanese maintain civil and police power until the governing nations sent units. If you are suggesting that the Americans supported a continuation of European imperialism at the local inhabitant's right to freedom, you are correct.

Far more death, destruction, and devastation to the peoples and the infrastructure would have occurred if the Japanese had surrendered to the locals. They knew better.

Addendum: having read the rest above, you are anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist who believes the aspirations of the Korean people were thwarted by the imperialists instead of having them thwarted by the native communists. If it is a choice between bad and worse, the South Koreans got the better deal.

Having lived in Korea as an American soldier and later as a civilian, I can tell you the people, although they detested Rhee and later the government of generals, they wanted nothing to do with the communist North other to unify it and put the leaders against the and have them shot.

 

[georgephillip]

"The Jeju Uprising (Korean: 제주 4·3 민중항쟁, Hanja: 濟州 4·3 民衆抗&#29229 refers to the rebellion on Jeju island, South Korea, beginning on April 3, 1948.

"Between 14,000 and 60,000 individuals were killed in fighting or execution between various factions on the island.

"The suppression of rebellion by the South Korean army has been called 'brutal', resulting in tens of thousands of deaths, the destruction of many villages on the island, and sparking rebellions on the Korean mainland.

"The rebellion, which included the mutiny of several hundred members of the South Korean 11th Constabulary Regiment, lasted until May 1949, although small isolated pockets of fighting continued into 1953.[3][4]

"Many residents of Jeju escaped from the massacre to Japan, and some of them made their Jeju town in Osaka.

Wiki

War is a Racket where the cost in blood and money is not shared by those who profit from the killing.

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, you mind giving us some links that lead to some validated sources?

JakeStarkey:

Link 1 from the Left:

"Korea was a Japanese colony from 1910 to 1945.

"As the Japanese prepared to surrender to the Allies, they did what they did elsewhere in Asia: they turned over power to local people in the hope that the western powers wouldn't colonize, or continue to colonize, Asian nations.

"(One of the principle outcomes of the Pacific War was that it indeed helped produce the end of colonial administrations in the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Malaysia, etc.)

"Leaders of self-governing people's committees opposed to Japanese occupation formed the 'Korean People's Republic' in Seoul on September 6, 1945.

Note: Korean War began 25 June 1950.

"It had a broad-based leadership ranging from right to left.

"When Lieutenant General John R. Hodge, leader of the U.S. occupation of Korea, arrived in Inchon soon thereafter, he ordered Japanese authorities to remain at their posts, refused to acknowledge the newly-formed republic, and indeed even banned all reference to it.

"The U.S. would be in charge of what was seen as a defeated enemy nation. This attitude produced widespread resentment and resistance in Korea.

Imagine that.

Possibly the Koreans who had been united from the 7th Century until 1945 thought they could manage their own country.

One of the few things Koreans from North and South agree on today is that the reason they're no longer united is "due primarily to the actions of the Truman administration and the US military."

North Korea for Dummies

No, the Japanese never turned over power to the conquered peoples because they would have murdered their oppressors, particularly the Korean. I served two tours there, and even then they hated the Japanese.

You did not document thousands of deaths caused by American occupation.

American, British, French, Dutch authorities all had the Japanese maintain civil and police power until the governing nations sent units. If you are suggesting that the Americans supported a continuation of European imperialism at the local inhabitant's right to freedom, you are correct.

Far more death, destruction, and devastation to the peoples and the infrastructure would have occurred if the Japanese had surrendered to the locals. They knew better.

Addendum: having read the rest above, you are anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist who believes the aspirations of the Korean people were thwarted by the imperialists instead of having them thwarted by the native communists. If it is a choice between bad and worse, the South Koreans got the better deal.

Having lived in Korea as an American soldier and later as a civilian, I can tell you the people, although they detested Rhee and later the government of generals, they wanted nothing to do with the communist North other to unify it and put the leaders against the and have them shot.

"At the Potsdam Conference (July–August 1945), the Allies unilaterally decided to divide Korea—without consulting the Koreans—in contradiction of the Cairo Conference.[38]:24[46]:24–5[60]:25[61]

"On 8 September 1945, Lt. Gen. John R. Hodge of the United States arrived in Incheon to accept the Japanese surrender south of the 38th parallel.[46]

"Appointed as military governor, General Hodge directly controlled South Korea via the United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGIK 1945–48).[62]:63

"He established control by restoring to power the key Japanese colonial administrators and their Korean police collaborators.[31]

"The USAMGIK refused to recognise the provisional government of the short-lived People's Republic of Korea (PRK) because he suspected it was communist.

"These policies, voiding popular Korean sovereignty, provoked the civil insurrections and guerrilla warfare.[39]

I don't have your first hand experiences with Korea.

The question I do have is whether there would ever have been a "Communist" North and "Capitalist" South in Korea if the Korean's People's Republic formed in Seoul on September 6, 1945 had not been undermined by the US and USSR?

Wiki