N. Korea fires on S. Korea - It was a clear provocation!!

[georgephillip]

While I'm not disputing any of your points, I would like to point out there are certainly details we don't get from consuming "headlines in a vacuum:"

"While North Korean leader Kim Jong Il is a madman, and while North Korea was the first to kill anyone in today's skirmish, it was actually the South Koreans who fired first.

speaking of vacuums? are you in an intellectual vacuum George? Your allusion is preposterous,. firing into the sea followed up by strikes into a populated area?

Firing towards a hostile nation is not likely to get a good response. One has to wonder what SK was thinking.

The impression I have is that SK was firing to the west, into the sea and not to the north towards NK.

However the island's ownership is disputed by both Koreas and so is are the waters around it. While it's perfectly true NK leaders are deranged, the current president of SK is also greedy enough to personally profit from increased arms sales that incidents like this usually generate.

War is Still a Racket.

 

[Valerie]

While I'm not disputing any of your points, I would like to point out there are certainly details we don't get from consuming "headlines in a vacuum:"

"While North Korean leader Kim Jong Il is a madman, and while North Korea was the first to kill anyone in today's skirmish, it was actually the South Koreans who fired first.

speaking of vacuums? are you in an intellectual vacuum George? Your allusion is preposterous,. firing into the sea followed up by strikes into a populated area?

Firing towards a hostile nation is not likely to get a good response. One has to wonder what SK was thinking.

What are you talking about??? North Korea fired unprovoked.

 

[georgephillip]

speaking of vacuums? are you in an intellectual vacuum George? Your allusion is preposterous,. firing into the sea followed up by strikes into a populated area?

Firing towards a hostile nation is not likely to get a good response. One has to wonder what SK was thinking.

What are you talking about??? North Korea fired unprovoked.

Depends on how you define provocation:

"While North Korean leader Kim Jong Il is a madman, and while North Korea was the first to kill anyone in today's skirmish, it was actually the South Koreans who fired first.

"As AP notes:

"The skirmish began when Pyongyang [i.e. North Korea] warned the South to halt military drills in the area, according to South Korean officials.

"When Seoul [i.e. South Korea] refused and began firing artillery into disputed waters, albeit away from the North Korean shore, the North retaliated by bombarding the small island of Yeonpyeong, which houses South Korean military installations....

"And see this.

"In addition, the two South Koreans killed were marines, not civilians, stationed in a military town.

"Obviously, firing artillery into the water and actually killing people are very different, and I am in no way defending North Korea or its crazy leader. I am simply trying to point out that the headlines can't be taken in a vacuum."

 

[Valerie]

North Korea's latest unprovoked military attack on South Korea -- the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island near the Northern Limit Line demarcating the Korean Peninsula's maritime boundary -- is a stark reminder that the Korean War never ended.

The first responsibility of the United States must remain the preservation of deterrence from outright return to war. The attacks leave the alliance with few good options for reprisal without risking a far less desirable renewal of conflict.

The United States must work with South Korea to bolster deterrence, check North Korean aggression and be ready to turn it back, but only if absolutely necessary. We will also have to operate without fully understanding the power at play in North Korea.

This year has already been a deadly one as an ailing Kim Jong Il accelerated the likely dynastic transition in power to an ill-prepared son who will be captive to aging generals in the Korean People's Army. In April, 46 South Korean crew members aboard the naval vessel Cheonan died when the vessel was ripped in two by a North Korean torpedo.

The shelling of Yeonpyeong has now left new casualties, and motives for the attack remain numerous and unclear. Could this be Kim Jong-un's next lesson regarding the use of force? That is, are the North's generals demonstrating how they can literally get away with murder with limited uses of force despite the superior military forces of the South Korea-U.S. alliance?

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/11/23/cronin.korea.artillery/

 

[georgephillip]

North Korea's latest unprovoked military attack on South Korea -- the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island near the Northern Limit Line demarcating the Korean Peninsula's maritime boundary -- is a stark reminder that the Korean War never ended.

The first responsibility of the United States must remain the preservation of deterrence from outright return to war. The attacks leave the alliance with few good options for reprisal without risking a far less desirable renewal of conflict.

The United States must work with South Korea to bolster deterrence, check North Korean aggression and be ready to turn it back, but only if absolutely necessary. We will also have to operate without fully understanding the power at play in North Korea.

This year has already been a deadly one as an ailing Kim Jong Il accelerated the likely dynastic transition in power to an ill-prepared son who will be captive to aging generals in the Korean People's Army. In April, 46 South Korean crew members aboard the naval vessel Cheonan died when the vessel was ripped in two by a North Korean torpedo.

The shelling of Yeonpyeong has now left new casualties, and motives for the attack remain numerous and unclear. Could this be Kim Jong-un's next lesson regarding the use of force? That is, are the North's generals demonstrating how they can literally get away with murder with limited uses of force despite the superior military forces of the South Korea-U.S. alliance?

North Korea's dangerous delusions - CNN.com

"SEOUL, Nov. 23 (Yonhap) -- President Lee Myung-bak ordered his military Tuesday to strike North Korea's missile base around its coastline artillery positions if it shows signs of additional provocation, his spokeswoman said.

"In a video conference with Gen. Han Min-koo, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the president ordered 'multiple-fold retaliation' against the North for its artillery attack on a South Korean island, according to presidential spokeswoman Kim Hee-jung."

S. Korean may strike...

 

[Cain]

North Korea's latest unprovoked military attack on South Korea -- the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island near the Northern Limit Line demarcating the Korean Peninsula's maritime boundary -- is a stark reminder that the Korean War never ended.

The first responsibility of the United States must remain the preservation of deterrence from outright return to war. The attacks leave the alliance with few good options for reprisal without risking a far less desirable renewal of conflict.

The United States must work with South Korea to bolster deterrence, check North Korean aggression and be ready to turn it back, but only if absolutely necessary. We will also have to operate without fully understanding the power at play in North Korea.

This year has already been a deadly one as an ailing Kim Jong Il accelerated the likely dynastic transition in power to an ill-prepared son who will be captive to aging generals in the Korean People's Army. In April, 46 South Korean crew members aboard the naval vessel Cheonan died when the vessel was ripped in two by a North Korean torpedo.

The shelling of Yeonpyeong has now left new casualties, and motives for the attack remain numerous and unclear. Could this be Kim Jong-un's next lesson regarding the use of force? That is, are the North's generals demonstrating how they can literally get away with murder with limited uses of force despite the superior military forces of the South Korea-U.S. alliance?

North Korea's dangerous delusions - CNN.com

"SEOUL, Nov. 23 (Yonhap) -- President Lee Myung-bak ordered his military Tuesday to strike North Korea's missile base around its coastline artillery positions if it shows signs of additional provocation, his spokeswoman said.

"In a video conference with Gen. Han Min-koo, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the president ordered 'multiple-fold retaliation' against the North for its artillery attack on a South Korean island, according to presidential spokeswoman Kim Hee-jung."

S. Korean may strike...

Does anyone have the statistics to the military strengths of North Korea and South Korea? I know their are a lot of US Service Members over there, my cousin was there I think last year or the year before, he came back, I forgot exactly where.

I looked up CIA Factbook, which if is anywhere close, South Korea has a serious advantage over North Korea, but here are the links I found:

North Korea Stats- https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/kn.html
South Korea Stats- https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ks.html

 

[JBeukema]

speaking of vacuums? are you in an intellectual vacuum George? Your allusion is preposterous,. firing into the sea followed up by strikes into a populated area?

Firing towards a hostile nation is not likely to get a good response. One has to wonder what SK was thinking.

What are you talking about??? North Korea fired unprovoked.

SK already said they fired into disputed waters first

 

[JBeukema]

North Korea's latest unprovoked military attack on South Korea -- the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island near the Northern Limit Line demarcating the Korean Peninsula's maritime boundary -- is a stark reminder that the Korean War never ended.

The first responsibility of the United States must remain the preservation of deterrence from outright return to war. The attacks leave the alliance with few good options for reprisal without risking a far less desirable renewal of conflict.

The United States must work with South Korea to bolster deterrence, check North Korean aggression and be ready to turn it back, but only if absolutely necessary. We will also have to operate without fully understanding the power at play in North Korea.

This year has already been a deadly one as an ailing Kim Jong Il accelerated the likely dynastic transition in power to an ill-prepared son who will be captive to aging generals in the Korean People's Army. In April, 46 South Korean crew members aboard the naval vessel Cheonan died when the vessel was ripped in two by a North Korean torpedo.

The shelling of Yeonpyeong has now left new casualties, and motives for the attack remain numerous and unclear. Could this be Kim Jong-un's next lesson regarding the use of force? That is, are the North's generals demonstrating how they can literally get away with murder with limited uses of force despite the superior military forces of the South Korea-U.S. alliance?

North Korea's dangerous delusions - CNN.com

Try reading past the emotion-laden headlines and finishing the articles.

 

[Valerie]

North Korea's latest unprovoked military attack on South Korea -- the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island near the Northern Limit Line demarcating the Korean Peninsula's maritime boundary -- is a stark reminder that the Korean War never ended.

The first responsibility of the United States must remain the preservation of deterrence from outright return to war. The attacks leave the alliance with few good options for reprisal without risking a far less desirable renewal of conflict.

The United States must work with South Korea to bolster deterrence, check North Korean aggression and be ready to turn it back, but only if absolutely necessary. We will also have to operate without fully understanding the power at play in North Korea.

This year has already been a deadly one as an ailing Kim Jong Il accelerated the likely dynastic transition in power to an ill-prepared son who will be captive to aging generals in the Korean People's Army. In April, 46 South Korean crew members aboard the naval vessel Cheonan died when the vessel was ripped in two by a North Korean torpedo.

The shelling of Yeonpyeong has now left new casualties, and motives for the attack remain numerous and unclear. Could this be Kim Jong-un's next lesson regarding the use of force? That is, are the North's generals demonstrating how they can literally get away with murder with limited uses of force despite the superior military forces of the South Korea-U.S. alliance?

North Korea's dangerous delusions - CNN.com

"SEOUL, Nov. 23 (Yonhap) -- President Lee Myung-bak ordered his military Tuesday to strike North Korea's missile base around its coastline artillery positions if it shows signs of additional provocation, his spokeswoman said.

"In a video conference with Gen. Han Min-koo, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the president ordered 'multiple-fold retaliation' against the North for its artillery attack on a South Korean island, according to presidential spokeswoman Kim Hee-jung."

S. Korean may strike...

After North Korean strike, South Korean leaderthreatens'retaliation'

After North Korean strike, South Korean leader threatens 'retaliation' - CNN.com

 

[Valerie]

North Korea's latest unprovoked military attack on South Korea -- the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island near the Northern Limit Line demarcating the Korean Peninsula's maritime boundary -- is a stark reminder that the Korean War never ended.

The first responsibility of the United States must remain the preservation of deterrence from outright return to war. The attacks leave the alliance with few good options for reprisal without risking a far less desirable renewal of conflict.

The United States must work with South Korea to bolster deterrence, check North Korean aggression and be ready to turn it back, but only if absolutely necessary. We will also have to operate without fully understanding the power at play in North Korea.

This year has already been a deadly one as an ailing Kim Jong Il accelerated the likely dynastic transition in power to an ill-prepared son who will be captive to aging generals in the Korean People's Army. In April, 46 South Korean crew members aboard the naval vessel Cheonan died when the vessel was ripped in two by a North Korean torpedo.

The shelling of Yeonpyeong has now left new casualties, and motives for the attack remain numerous and unclear. Could this be Kim Jong-un's next lesson regarding the use of force? That is, are the North's generals demonstrating how they can literally get away with murder with limited uses of force despite the superior military forces of the South Korea-U.S. alliance?

North Korea's dangerous delusions - CNN.com

Try reading past the emotion-laden headlines and finishing the articles.

North Korea fired unprovoked.

 

[JBeukema]

I see you two have discovered bold and caps

Let us pray you never discover the font size and colour options

 

[dilloduck]

Who gives a fuck who fired first-----is Obama reading to school kids or what ?

 

[JBeukema]

North Korea's dangerous delusions - CNN.com

Try reading past the emotion-laden headlines and finishing the articles.

North Korea fired unprovoked.

NK fired on Sk after SK fired into disputed waters

I understand you're emotional, but try to grasp the facts if you don't want to be recognized as a retarded child.

 

[Valerie]

Firing towards a hostile nation is not likely to get a good response. One has to wonder what SK was thinking.

What are you talking about??? North Korea fired unprovoked.

SK already said they fired into disputed waters first

Nothing but a routine telegraphed training exercise...

 

[Valerie]

Try reading past the emotion-laden headlines and finishing the articles.

North Korea fired unprovoked.

NK fired on Sk after SK fired into disputed waters

I understand you're emotional, but try to grasp the facts if you don't want to be recognized as a retarded child.

So is it you who is a North Korea apologist? You have no facts.

 

[JBeukema]

What are you talking about??? North Korea fired unprovoked.

SK already said they fired into disputed waters first

Nothing but a routine telegraphed training exercise...

That involved firing into disputed territory and which they were told to cease

What did they think would happen? We're dealing with a batshit insane tinpot dictator with an active nuclear program, unknown military capabilities, and napoleon complex- and his son who might or might not view this all as a game and a chance to prove how big his dick is

 

[dilloduck]

SK already said they fired into disputed waters first

Nothing but a routine telegraphed training exercise...

That involved firing into disputed territory and which they were told to cease

What did they think would happen? We're dealing with a batshit insane tinpot dictator with an active nuclear program, unknown military capabilities, and napoleon complex- and his son who might or might not view this all as a game and a chance to prove how big his dick is

and the problem is ?

 

[JBeukema]

North Korea fired unprovoked.

NK fired on Sk after SK fired into disputed waters

I understand you're emotional, but try to grasp the facts if you don't want to be recognized as a retarded child.

So is it you who is a North Korea apologist? You have no facts.

You're an idiot.


Prove anything I've said incorrect.


I already explained earlier why we can't afford further escalation- at least not if the U.S. is expected to back SK

 

[JBeukema]

Nothing but a routine telegraphed training exercise...

That involved firing into disputed territory and which they were told to cease

What did they think would happen? We're dealing with a batshit insane tinpot dictator with an active nuclear program, unknown military capabilities, and napoleon complex- and his son who might or might not view this all as a game and a chance to prove how big his dick is

and the problem is ?

IDK, let's ask the dead and wounded

 

[Valerie]

SK already said they fired into disputed waters first

Nothing but a routine telegraphed training exercise...

That involved firing into disputed territory and which they were told to cease

What did they think would happen? We're dealing with a batshit insane tinpot dictator with an active nuclear program, unknown military capabilities, and napoleon complex- and his son who might or might not view this all as a game and a chance to prove how big his dick is

Thank you for admitting that he fired unprovoked.