N. Korea fires on S. Korea - It was a clear provocation!!

[georgephillip]

I'd ask for a credible citation, but there are none. You probably believe that horseshit Lancet study, don't you?

And I bet you're counting the ones your beloved "freedom fighters" killed, too, aren't you?

I know they're not terrorists. If they were, you'd love them.

Are these people all terrorists?

"Overview
Seven years after the U.S. military occupation of Iraq, the country continues to face large scale displacement and pressing humanitarian needs.

"Millions of Iraqis have fled their homes – either for safer locations within Iraq or to other countries in the region – and are living in increasingly desperate circumstances.

"Iraq’s future will only be secure and prosperous if the needs of the displaced are also considered in all current and future policies and planning.

So, they just toss out the word "millions", and like a good little robot, you believe it.

"Refugees - Wiki

* As of November 4, 2006, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees estimated that 1.8 million Iraqis had been displaced to neighboring countries, and 1.6 million were displaced internally, with nearly 100,000 Iraqis fleeing to Syria and Jordan each month."

What's your estimate for Iraqi displacement due to US occupation?

Or do you dispute the word "occupation?"

How about "illegal?"

 

[georgephillip]

One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad. But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today.​

But George knows better than they do.

Did you notice when that survey was taken?

So, you're saying the Iraqis are in worse shape now?

Maybe you should think about moving to Fallujah?

Uranium nights...

I bet you believed the terrorists' press release about Fallujah, just like Murtha did.

"The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.

"One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business.

"In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad.

"But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today...

"More than half say security will improve after a withdrawal of multinational forces."

How would the poll results change if millions of Iraqi refugees were posed these same questions?

Were any imprisoned Iraqis queried on their opinions?

Are you clear yet on why Halliburton Dick and Draft Ducking Dubya and "their base" should be allowed to earn $millions from war crimes like the US assault on Fallujah?

Or is that beyond your pay grade?

Iraqis: life is getting...

 

[Ava]

Report: N. Korea fires on S. Korea, injuring at least 4 - CNN.com
North Korea on Tuesday fired artillery into the sea near its tense western sea border with South Korea, injuring at least four South Korean soldiers, the Yonhap news agency reported.

Some of the artillery landed directly on an inhabited island, and South Korea's military returned fire, Yonhap said, citing Col. Lee Bung-woo, spokesman for the South's Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The firing began about 2:30 p.m. local time. The South Korean army raised its alert condition and braced for any possible fire, the report said.

Images of plumes of smoke were quickly broadcast on Yonhap television, but it was not immediately clear what the artillery had hit

It was a clear provocation!!!

But Mr. Obama finally did weigh in by stating that “We strongly affirm our commitment to defend South Korea.”

Our democratic allies in the Pacific can be forgiven for doubting this resolve, given that the White House has focused more effort recently on passing the START treaty, which could eviscerate our missile defense and further impair our strategic deterrence, than addressing the threat at hand, with its broadening nuclear ambitions and brazen aggression. Reality is calling, but Mr. Obama refuses to answer, entranced still by his naive nuclear-free-world utopianism and instinctive liberal distrust of America standing up for itself and its allies.The Obama administration has reported that the aircraft carrier USS George Washington and her battle group will proceed to the Yellow Sea west of Korea as a show of force. But this was an exercise planned before the recent North Korean attack and revelation of a new uranium-based nuclear weapons line. As such, it will be seen at best as a modest gesture. A similar show after North Korea sank an allied naval vessel in March had little effect on the regime.

Mr. Obama’s Defense Secretary demonstrated no more resolve. After the attack, he offered little more than a compliment of his South Korean counterpart’s “restraint shown to date.” This translates roughly to “Thank you for resisting the urge to defend your nation.” (South Korean President Lee has since sacked the defense minister.)

FoxNews.com - How to Take Down North Korea, Without Waging War

 

[Mad Scientist]

China, Japan and Korea have been fighting for thousands of years. Even unifying Korea won't change that.

Pull all of our troops from South Korea and let them go at it, winner take all. Then we can sit back and watch China, Japan and Korea fight with each other again. That'll never change.

 

[Valerie]

SEOUL: Tensions remained high on the Korean Peninsula in the wake of the artillery duel between North and South Korea, amid signs that China was gearing up its diplomacy to try to ease the atmosphere.

South Korean and US forces Sunday went ahead with major naval manoeuvres in the Yellow Sea, adding to the security jitters in the region after the artillery exchange which left four South Koreans dead on Yeonpyeong Island near the two countries' disputed maritime border.

Amid the tensions, China sent a diplomat to Seoul to meet with top South Korean leaders, and also on Sunday proposed an emergency meeting of six-party talks in early December.

Special envoy for Korea Wu Dawei told journalists that Beijing was proposing that chief negotiators from North and South Korea, the US, China, Japan and Russia should meet early December in Beijing.

China seeks six-party talks on Korea; naval drills start - The Times of India

 

[Ava]

China, Japan and Korea have been fighting for thousands of years. Even unifying Korea won't change that.

Pull all of our troops from South Korea and let them go at it, winner take all. Then we can sit back and watch China, Japan and Korea fight with each other again. That'll never change.

"North Korea threatens all of this. It also has a long history of proliferating weapons to loathsome regimes, and could one day arm Islamist terrorists with nuclear material for the right price.

"To help the North Korean people end the regime, the U.S. and its democratic allies should consider the following:" ( Six strategies)

FoxNews.com - How to Take Down North Korea, Without Waging War

 

[rightwinger]

China, Japan and Korea have been fighting for thousands of years. Even unifying Korea won't change that.

Pull all of our troops from South Korea and let them go at it, winner take all. Then we can sit back and watch China, Japan and Korea fight with each other again. That'll never change.

I think the cultures in those countries have changed significantly from a thousand years ago. Capitalism and westernazation have taken hold. Europe has been fighting longer than China and Japan....should we let them go at it too?

 

[rightwinger]

China, Japan and Korea have been fighting for thousands of years. Even unifying Korea won't change that.

Pull all of our troops from South Korea and let them go at it, winner take all. Then we can sit back and watch China, Japan and Korea fight with each other again. That'll never change.

Do you agree with John Bolton?

"North Korea threatens all of this. It also has a long history of proliferating weapons to loathsome regimes, and could one day arm Islamist terrorists with nuclear material for the right price.

"To help the North Korean people end the regime, the U.S. and its democratic allies should consider the following:" ( Six strategies)

FoxNews.com - How to Take Down North Korea, Without Waging War

Bolton is an extremist moron with no respect for his views on global politics. One of many bizarre picks by Bush

 

[Valerie]

Report: N. Korea fires on S. Korea, injuring at least 4 - CNN.com
North Korea on Tuesday fired artillery into the sea near its tense western sea border with South Korea, injuring at least four South Korean soldiers, the Yonhap news agency reported.

Some of the artillery landed directly on an inhabited island, and South Korea's military returned fire, Yonhap said, citing Col. Lee Bung-woo, spokesman for the South's Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The firing began about 2:30 p.m. local time. The South Korean army raised its alert condition and braced for any possible fire, the report said.

Images of plumes of smoke were quickly broadcast on Yonhap television, but it was not immediately clear what the artillery had hit

It was a clear provocation!!!

But Mr. Obama finally did weigh in by stating that “We strongly affirm our commitment to defend South Korea.”

Our democratic allies in the Pacific can be forgiven for doubting this resolve, given that the White House has focused more effort recently on passing the START treaty, which could eviscerate our missile defense and further impair our strategic deterrence, than addressing the threat at hand, with its broadening nuclear ambitions and brazen aggression. Reality is calling, but Mr. Obama refuses to answer, entranced still by his naive nuclear-free-world utopianism and instinctive liberal distrust of America standing up for itself and its allies.The Obama administration has reported that the aircraft carrier USS George Washington and her battle group will proceed to the Yellow Sea west of Korea as a show of force. But this was an exercise planned before the recent North Korean attack and revelation of a new uranium-based nuclear weapons line. As such, it will be seen at best as a modest gesture. A similar show after North Korea sank an allied naval vessel in March had little effect on the regime.

Mr. Obama’s Defense Secretary demonstrated no more resolve. After the attack, he offered little more than a compliment of his South Korean counterpart’s “restraint shown to date.” This translates roughly to “Thank you for resisting the urge to defend your nation.” (South Korean President Lee has since sacked the defense minister.)

FoxNews.com - How to Take Down North Korea, Without Waging War

North Korea can not justify burning dozens of civilian homes and killing innocents over some imaginary bullets over an imaginary line in the sea. North Korea chose to perceive aggression where none existed, and now wants to justify it's own brutal murderous provocation. (again)


The USS Washington was not headed over there until after the attack.

WHY CONDUCT JOINT EXERCISES?

The exercises are held primarily to send a message to North Korea that the U.S. military stands by South Korea. These combined drills are also an overt show of force.

Washington says large-scale drills, which started after the sinking of the Cheonan warship in March, are designed to send a clear message to North Korea that its aggressive behavior must stop.

The U.S. and South Korean militaries are vastly better equipped than the North's, and experts say they would quickly win any war. The North's force of over a million troops easily outnumbers the U.S.-South Korean contingent, but its equipment is old and it barely has enough fuel to fly its fighter jets. The exercises also serve to underline the gap in technology.
Q+A: Why are U.S.-South Korea drills so sensitive? | Reuters

More Complications, Added To Complications

The U.S. has committed the aircraft carrier, USS George Washington, a nuclear powered ship and all accompanying group ships, to war games in the peninsula today. As was expected, the North Koreans have warned the U.S. about following through with the maneuvers, saying that the consequences couldn’t be predicted. The U.S. is saying that the maneuvers in the Yellow Sea are “defensive in nature.”

Russians And Chinese In On the Act

The Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, and Chinese Foreign Minister, Yang Jiechi both have asked that the North Korean government to “work toward easing the tension between the two Korean parties as well as for a resumption of six-party talks.” According to an e-mailed statement from the Moscow Foreign Ministry, both Ministries are striving to prevent any further escalation in the area. Meanwhile the war games will go on.

Korean Tensions Drive Markets, Russians, Chinese, And USS Washington

 

[Synthaholic]

China, Japan and Korea have been fighting for thousands of years. Even unifying Korea won't change that.

Pull all of our troops from South Korea and let them go at it, winner take all. Then we can sit back and watch China, Japan and Korea fight with each other again. That'll never change.

Do you agree with John Bolton?

"North Korea threatens all of this. It also has a long history of proliferating weapons to loathsome regimes, and could one day arm Islamist terrorists with nuclear material for the right price.

"To help the North Korean people end the regime, the U.S. and its democratic allies should consider the following:" ( Six strategies)

FoxNews.com - How to Take Down North Korea, Without Waging War

Pick someone else. John Bolton has no credibility whatsoever, on any subject.

 

[georgephillip]

China, Japan and Korea have been fighting for thousands of years. Even unifying Korea won't change that.

Pull all of our troops from South Korea and let them go at it, winner take all. Then we can sit back and watch China, Japan and Korea fight with each other again. That'll never change.

Do you agree with John Bolton?

"North Korea threatens all of this. It also has a long history of proliferating weapons to loathsome regimes, and could one day arm Islamist terrorists with nuclear material for the right price.

"To help the North Korean people end the regime, the U.S. and its democratic allies should consider the following:" ( Six strategies)

FoxNews.com - How to Take Down North Korea, Without Waging War

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/11/26/north-korea-waging-war/ Link Added-By Intense

"A better assessment and prescription was offered on Fox News this week by former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton.

"On Thursday, he remarked: “The only way we’re ever really going to deal with that threat is to eliminate the regime in North Korea and reunite the Korean peninsula…

"I would engage in subversive activities inside North Korea...

John Bolton is probably the last person to get personally involved in subversive activities outside the American Enterprise Institute.

I don't recall him championing the "sunshine policy" of then SK President Kim Dae-jung which, for a while, looked like it might actually accomplish Mr. Bolton's objectives but in a way that left a united Korea in command of its own destiny and fortunes.

From Honduras in the 80s to Iraq in the 2000s, Bolton has consistently sided with elites whose first goal is to profit from the misery of others. Personally, I think John Bolton and other war mongers represent a much bigger threat to this specie than the Axis of Evil ever did.

 

[georgephillip]

SEOUL: Tensions remained high on the Korean Peninsula in the wake of the artillery duel between North and South Korea, amid signs that China was gearing up its diplomacy to try to ease the atmosphere.

South Korean and US forces Sunday went ahead with major naval manoeuvres in the Yellow Sea, adding to the security jitters in the region after the artillery exchange which left four South Koreans dead on Yeonpyeong Island near the two countries' disputed maritime border.

Amid the tensions, China sent a diplomat to Seoul to meet with top South Korean leaders, and also on Sunday proposed an emergency meeting of six-party talks in early December.

Special envoy for Korea Wu Dawei told journalists that Beijing was proposing that chief negotiators from North and South Korea, the US, China, Japan and Russia should meet early December in Beijing.

China seeks six-party talks on Korea; naval drills start - The Times of India

Antiwar.com offers an alternative explanation for North Korea's provocation that I haven't read anywhere else:

"Yet a simpler explanation is readily apparent: the (SK) military exercises, code-named 'Hoguk,' involving all four branches of the South Korean armed forces and some 70,000 troops, simulated an attack on North Korea, and were meant to provoke the North Koreans, who responded as might be expected.

"US troops were supposed to have participated in the exercises, but apparently the Americans thought better of it and pulled back at the last moment – perhaps because they knew a provocation was in the making."

If there are $2-$6 trillion worth of minerals inside North Korea AND Goldman Sachs is involved in the reunification process necessary to profit from the minerals, all four countries involved in the conflict are likely to be saying one thing in public and doing something far different out of the public's eye.

 

[Cain]

China's pretty depressing right now too me. They are ignoring the fact that North Korea has sunk a South Korean ship, killing 44 sailors, and have bombed a South Korean island killing 2 marines & 2 civilians, wounding several others.

They are acting like it is equally faults for the two parties, but I would put North Korea at fault way before South Korea. South Korea may have made a "threatening" gesture with war games, but it seems, North Korea was the one to openly attack and kill South Koreans.

 

[georgephillip]

There are still unanswered questions about that South Korean ship that was sunk (see Korean Conundrums); however there's also the issue of The North Korean Holocaust that caught me by surprise:

"We regularly use the word 'hell' to describe things in our lives. "We talk about 'examination hell' and we use the term 'hell-way' to describe an overcrowded subway.

"Yet few people know that they have only to step over the truce line to discover that a real hell exists in which the only purpose is to exterminate human lives.

"North Korean detention camps are places where once you are taken there, not even your remains ever make it out again. (In North Korea, detention camps are called control camps.)

"The detention camps are places where lives are drawn out on 20-30 pieces of corn and salt per meal.

"They are places where people slave for 15 hours a day in mines; where guards can shoot inmates dead at their discretion, or beat or starve them; where the bodies of inmates are dragged like animals to be buried.

"They are places where death is a matter-of-course. It wouldn't seem so wrong if these people had been dragged off because they'd actually committed a crime.

"Instead, most of the crimes were things like being the child of a landowner, an expatriate from Japan or damaging a picture of Kim Il-sung. And it wasn't just the alleged perpetrator who got dragged off.

"Even innocent family members right up to the second and third generation, including children and babies still on the breast, have been taken to the camps and lost their lives.

"That's because Kim Il-sung and Kim Jung-Il's doctrine to 'terminate three generations of the seed of reactionaries' is taken literally."

This source appears credible to me.

If what they're claiming is true....?

North Korean Holocaust

 

[Valerie]

The documents released by Wikileaks provide a fascinating insight into the relationship between two of the world's most secretive nations - China and North Korea.

Official statements from both countries rarely stray from well-worn diplomatic language and are often hard to interpret.

But these leaks - using bold and clear language - lay out what appears to be China's growing frustration with North Korea.

Although China has declined to comment on the content of the reports, it will no doubt be embarrassed by many of the revelations.

The reports are a series of documents sent between the United States and its foreign embassies.

In them, China appears to be coming round to the idea that both North and South Korea might one day reunite - under the South's control.

BBC News - Rare insight into secretive China-N Korea ties

 

[Valerie]

The documents released by Wikileaks provide a fascinating insight into the relationship between two of the world's most secretive nations - China and North Korea.

Official statements from both countries rarely stray from well-worn diplomatic language and are often hard to interpret.

But these leaks - using bold and clear language - lay out what appears to be China's growing frustration with North Korea.

Although China has declined to comment on the content of the reports, it will no doubt be embarrassed by many of the revelations.

The reports are a series of documents sent between the United States and its foreign embassies.

In them, China appears to be coming round to the idea that both North and South Korea might one day reunite - under the South's control.

BBC News - Rare insight into secretive China-N Korea ties

'No disturbance'

Beijing has kept its comments on the reports brief.

"China takes note of the relevant reports. We hope the US side will properly handle the issue," said Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei at a regular press briefing on Thursday.

"We do not want to see any disturbance to China/US relations," added Mr Hong, ignoring a question about whether there had already been any disturbance because of the leaks.

It was another diplomatic side-step by a well-briefed official speaking in public.

But these leaks show that China's government employees are capable of being far more candid in private.

The Chinese ambassador in Kazakhstan, Cheng Guoping, was apparently relaxed and eager to engage when he spoke to his US counterpart about North Korea and other subjects.

 

[Valerie]

Wow...Here's hoping these leaks won't send the already insane Kim Jong Il completely over the edge!

The widespread use of computer hacking by China's government is also reported.

The US government condemned the release of the documents, which number in the hundreds of thousands, saying they put the lives of diplomats and others at risk.

...


The leaked US embassy cables also reportedly include accounts of:


* Iran attempting to adapt North Korean rockets for use as long-range missiles

BBC News - Wikileaks release of embassy cables reveals US concerns

 

[daveman]

There are still unanswered questions about that South Korean ship that was sunk (see Korean Conundrums); however there's also the issue of The North Korean Holocaust that caught me by surprise:

"We regularly use the word 'hell' to describe things in our lives. "We talk about 'examination hell' and we use the term 'hell-way' to describe an overcrowded subway.

"Yet few people know that they have only to step over the truce line to discover that a real hell exists in which the only purpose is to exterminate human lives.

"North Korean detention camps are places where once you are taken there, not even your remains ever make it out again. (In North Korea, detention camps are called control camps.)

"The detention camps are places where lives are drawn out on 20-30 pieces of corn and salt per meal.

"They are places where people slave for 15 hours a day in mines; where guards can shoot inmates dead at their discretion, or beat or starve them; where the bodies of inmates are dragged like animals to be buried.

"They are places where death is a matter-of-course. It wouldn't seem so wrong if these people had been dragged off because they'd actually committed a crime.

"Instead, most of the crimes were things like being the child of a landowner, an expatriate from Japan or damaging a picture of Kim Il-sung. And it wasn't just the alleged perpetrator who got dragged off.

"Even innocent family members right up to the second and third generation, including children and babies still on the breast, have been taken to the camps and lost their lives.

"That's because Kim Il-sung and Kim Jung-Il's doctrine to 'terminate three generations of the seed of reactionaries' is taken literally."

This source appears credible to me.

If what they're claiming is true....?

North Korean Holocaust

People have been telling you your whole life that Communism is evil.

Why didn't you listen?

 

[georgephillip]

Hitler hated communists at least as much as the Gipper.

Was Hitler evil?

Maybe it's authoritarianism that gives life to evil.
Whether in Germany, Russia, Korea or the US?

If your moral code depends on obedience to legitimate authority and not on empathy, it won't matter what your politics are if the right demagogue arrives on the scene at the right time.

 

[georgephillip]

Wow...Here's hoping these leaks won't send the already insane Kim Jong Il completely over the edge!

The widespread use of computer hacking by China's government is also reported.

The US government condemned the release of the documents, which number in the hundreds of thousands, saying they put the lives of diplomats and others at risk.

...


The leaked US embassy cables also reportedly include accounts of:


* Iran attempting to adapt North Korean rockets for use as long-range missiles

BBC News - Wikileaks release of embassy cables reveals US concerns

"(S) According to XXXXXXXXXXXX, not only does Kim Jong-il decide to reverse policies on his own, but officials also chart their own course as different factions competing for Kim's attention, making it difficult for Kim to set a firm, clear direction.

"Wary of China's increasing hold on precious minerals and mining rights in the DPRK, many North Korean officials oppose mineral concessions as a means to attract Chinese investment.

If Kim has suffered a recent stroke, the sharks from Bejing to Wall Street will smell the blood in the water and try to position themselves to profit first from Korean reunification.

US embassy cables: