Myths, Hypotheses and Facts Concerning the Origin of Peoples

[Roudy]

It's supported by genetics.

Genetics show Palestinians the same as their neighboring Arabs, a million times more than any relation to Jews. You are delusional.

source?

So you are now claiming that the Palestinians are closer to the Jews than they are Arabs? Ha ha ha. Wow!

 

[Roudy]

Lots of good ideas for new threads coming from this one:

Hossfly = a comparative study between Mexico's loss of California, Texas and the palestinian loss of western Palestine, between Aztlan and other hispanic nationalist movements and palestinians.

Hossfly = a deeper explanation on what I call "the customary, unwritten laws of mankind concerning landgrabs".

RoccoR = the terrorist element of the palestinian armed struggle (targeting of civilians).

History/Roudy = the palestinian national identity.

You left yourself out:
Mr. Abdul Bin Jose al Mohammad Feliciano = Palestinian identity and shopping for a suicide belt that doesn't make you look fat.

 

[Roudy]

[*]Two cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim), within the same ethnic origins (Arabs),

That is incorrect. The Jews predate the Arabs, so the assertion that the "ethnic origin" of both is "Arabs" is simply wrong.

Of course, none of this is relevant to the issues we face today, but that correction was nonetheless necessary.

Coyote is constantly trying make that pig fly. I guess each of these anti Israelis have their pet peeve. This one thinks the Palestinian Arabs and the Jews are one and the same. It sure makes for good entertainment though.

 

[Coyote]

Coyote, Roudy, et al,

This has been known for some time.

source?

(OBSERVATIONS)

(COMMENT)

What the implications are, I'm not sure.

Dr Jobling dismissed the idea that the study could have any political implications. "It seems that in many of these situations where groups are in conflict with each other they are likely to be pretty much genetically indistinguishable, and this factor, to the peoples involved in these conflicts, clearly isn't the point and isn't likely to change their behaviour very much."

SOURCE: BBC News | SCI/TECH | Jews and Arabs are 'genetic brothers'

This is just another reason why, as discussed in another thread, I don't use ethnic or racial indicators to from a template. However, there are separate genetic markers that may have a bearing on the issue; --- but, that is not our topic.

(IMPLICATIONS)

• Two cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim), within the same ethnic origins (Arabs), are locked in combat with each other.

• Genetically, you can tie both cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim) historically to the same region.

Most Respectfully,
R

Sort of like the American Civil War then. I don't see what genetics have to do with the current struggle. Do Americans have the same genomes as the British, Germans, Italians and other Caucasians we had disagreements and wars with? I'd be surprised if they did not.

I also do not see what claiming the Palestinians are not a people have to do with what is going on here and now

They are there and they have been there as long as the Jews.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

[*]Two cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim), within the same ethnic origins (Arabs),

That is incorrect. The Jews predate the Arabs, so the assertion that the "ethnic origin" of both is "Arabs" is simply wrong.

Of course, none of this is relevant to the issues we face today, but that correction was nonetheless necessary.

Coyote is constantly make that pig fly. I guess each of these anti Israelis have their pet peeve. This one thinks the Palestinian Arabs and the Jews are one and the same. It sure makes for good entertainment though.

Her goal is to say that the "Palestinians" were in Israel as long as the Jews.

Of course, the Jews predate the terms "Palestine," "Arab," "Islam," and "Muslim."

That logic escapes her, as she believes every "Palestinian" can trace their lineage back beyond the coining of the term "Palestina" to the earliest times in Jewish history. Never mind that this claim is simply not true, as Arabs migrated to the area through the centuries, and most current day "Palestinians" probably could not trace their family history in the region back more than 100 years or so.

As the Doobie Brothers sang... "What a fool believes [she] sees, no wise man has the power to reason away."

 

[HistoryBefore67]

They are there and they have been there as long as the Jews.

No, they haven't.

But maybe if you keep repeating that lie, it will one day become the truth.

That is, after all, the Arab method.

 

[Coyote]

They are there and they have been there as long as the Jews.

No, they haven't.

But maybe if you keep repeating that lie, it will one day become the truth.

That is, after all, the Arab method.

That's where genetics come in, as per Rocco's post. The people themselves have been there regardless of religion - for generations. They may have been called something different at different times.

 

[Coyote]

That is incorrect. The Jews predate the Arabs, so the assertion that the "ethnic origin" of both is "Arabs" is simply wrong.

Of course, none of this is relevant to the issues we face today, but that correction was nonetheless necessary.

Coyote is constantly make that pig fly. I guess each of these anti Israelis have their pet peeve. This one thinks the Palestinian Arabs and the Jews are one and the same. It sure makes for good entertainment though.

Her goal is to say that the "Palestinians" were in Israel as long as the Jews.

Of course, the Jews predate the terms "Palestine," "Arab," "Islam," and "Muslim."

That logic escapes her, as she believes every "Palestinian" can trace their lineage back beyond the coining of the term "Palestina" to the earliest times in Jewish history. Never mind that this claim is simply not true, as Arabs migrated to the area through the centuries, and most current day "Palestinians" probably could not trace their family history in the region back more than 100 years or so.

As the Doobie Brothers sang... "What a fool believes [she] sees, no wise man has the power to reason away."

The term "Jews" predates the terms.

Frankly neither Jews nor Palestinians can trace their lineage back that far - it's mythology.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

They are there and they have been there as long as the Jews.

No, they haven't.

But maybe if you keep repeating that lie, it will one day become the truth.

That is, after all, the Arab method.

That's where genetics come in, as per Rocco's post. The people themselves have been there regardless of religion - for generations. They may have been called something different at different times.

Wrong.

Some people have been there for generations.

Some migrated there in recent centuries.

Some left and returned.

None of this is relevant to anything.

 

[Roudy]

Coyote, Roudy, et al,

This has been known for some time.


(OBSERVATIONS)

(COMMENT)

What the implications are, I'm not sure.



This is just another reason why, as discussed in another thread, I don't use ethnic or racial indicators to from a template. However, there are separate genetic markers that may have a bearing on the issue; --- but, that is not our topic.

(IMPLICATIONS)

• Two cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim), within the same ethnic origins (Arabs), are locked in combat with each other.

• Genetically, you can tie both cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim) historically to the same region.

Most Respectfully,
R

Sort of like the American Civil War then. I don't see what genetics have to do with the current struggle. Do Americans have the same genomes as the British, Germans, Italians and other Caucasians we had disagreements and wars with? I'd be surprised if they did not.

I also do not see what claiming the Palestinians are not a people have to do with what is going on here and now

They are there and they have been there as long as the Jews.

Rocco's post lists similarities between ALL ARABS and Jews. Nobody is denying this. But you are saying that Palestinians are different type of Arab with a separate identity and history, that are CLOSER to the Jews than other Arabs. That is not what Rocco's post is saying. Pay attention.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Coyote is constantly make that pig fly. I guess each of these anti Israelis have their pet peeve. This one thinks the Palestinian Arabs and the Jews are one and the same. It sure makes for good entertainment though.

Her goal is to say that the "Palestinians" were in Israel as long as the Jews.

Of course, the Jews predate the terms "Palestine," "Arab," "Islam," and "Muslim."

That logic escapes her, as she believes every "Palestinian" can trace their lineage back beyond the coining of the term "Palestina" to the earliest times in Jewish history. Never mind that this claim is simply not true, as Arabs migrated to the area through the centuries, and most current day "Palestinians" probably could not trace their family history in the region back more than 100 years or so.

As the Doobie Brothers sang... "What a fool believes [she] sees, no wise man has the power to reason away."

The term "Jews" predates the terms.

Frankly neither Jews nor Palestinians can trace their lineage back that far - it's mythology.

No, in the case of the Jews, its archaeology.

 

[Coyote]

Her goal is to say that the "Palestinians" were in Israel as long as the Jews.

Of course, the Jews predate the terms "Palestine," "Arab," "Islam," and "Muslim."

That logic escapes her, as she believes every "Palestinian" can trace their lineage back beyond the coining of the term "Palestina" to the earliest times in Jewish history. Never mind that this claim is simply not true, as Arabs migrated to the area through the centuries, and most current day "Palestinians" probably could not trace their family history in the region back more than 100 years or so.

As the Doobie Brothers sang... "What a fool believes [she] sees, no wise man has the power to reason away."

The term "Jews" predates the terms.

Frankly neither Jews nor Palestinians can trace their lineage back that far - it's mythology.

No, in the case of the Jews, its archaeology.

Much of ancient archaeology is guesswork - it's not by any means definitive that the people existing today can trace their lineage to the people that existed then. Really - I'd like to see that family tree if you have it.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

I feel I must, once again, subject Coyote to a "last call" on a discussion.

These genetic arguments are moronic. The issues faced by Israel today have nothing to do with genetic code. The "Palestinians" of today - regardless of who their ancestors might have been and where they might have lived - are nothing more than a group of Arabs who have adopted a name to provide themselves with a platform to fight Israel. They could have chosen another name, I suppose, if they wished. They could have called themselves "Anti-Partitionists." Or maybe, "Al-Aqsans." Or maybe they could have chosen the name "Arafatians."

Who cares what they call themselves?

What matters is that they are not a distinct nation that has been displaced from their country. They never were a nation, and they never had a country.

They are Arabs. They are Arabs like Saudis, Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians are Arabs.

Does that mean they can't make a claim to Israel? No, they can claim whatever they want.

But there are honest claims and there are dishonest claims.

The claim that they are a distinct people is dishonest.

They're not a distinct people.

End of story.

Buh-bye.

And I'm through with this thread!

 

[José]

Originally posted by Coyotes
They are there and they have been there as long as the Jews

Palestinian Jews are probably rolling in their graves right now...

You are using them to somehow justify the mass immigration of the Ashkenazim to the Middle East. An immigration wave they fiercely opposed... if anything because it would upset the arab majority.

 

[Roudy]

The term "Jews" predates the terms.

Frankly neither Jews nor Palestinians can trace their lineage back that far - it's mythology.

No, in the case of the Jews, its archaeology.

Much of ancient archaeology is guesswork - it's not by any means definitive that the people existing today can trace their lineage to the people that existed then. Really - I'd like to see that family tree if you have it.

Now you're making stuff up on fly. Things that archaeologists cannot definitively attribute to a certain group or time, they specify so. I never saw much "guesswork" or vagueness when visiting the Metropolitan or other museums or archaeological ruins, the descriptions were pretty conclusive to me.

So, let's recap, we went from "the quotes are out of context" to "the invention of the Jewish people" to "the Jews and Palestinians are the same" to "archaeology is guesswork", all as attempts to derail the topic of this thread when the original OP topic was simply quotes by various Arabs of prominence, who denied the existence of Palestine and a Palestinian people as a separate entity from the Arabs.

I'd rather go with what Arab historian Hitti said:

"Hitti.. explained that there was actually no such entity as Palestine- never had been; it was historically part of Syria, and "the Sunday schools have done a great deal of harm to us because by smearing the walls of classrooms with maps of Palestine, they associate it with the Jews in the minds of the average American and Englishman""

Out of context! Out of context! ha ha ha.

 

[Roudy]

Originally posted by Coyotes
They are there and they have been there as long as the Jews

Palestinian Jews are probably rolling in their graves right now...

You are using them to somehow justify the mass immigration of the Ashkenazim to the Middle East. An immigration wave they fiercely opposed... if anything because it would upset the arab majority.

Yeah, especially the ones that had been living in Hebron for centuries, and were massacred and ethnically cleansed by the Arabs.

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage

 

[Coyote]

I feel I must, once again, subject Coyote to a "last call" on a discussion.

It's not up to you what I do and do not discuss.

These genetic arguments are moronic.

In the context of the silliness of who's been here longer and who's "more" legitimate, they are valid.

The issues faced by Israel today have nothing to do with genetic code.

If you truly cared about the issues you wouldn't be perpetrating the arguments implied by the OP.

The "Palestinians" of today - regardless of who their ancestors might have been and where they might have lived - are nothing more than a group of Arabs who have adopted a name to provide themselves with a platform to fight Israel. They could have chosen another name, I suppose, if they wished. They could have called themselves "Anti-Partitionists." Or maybe, "Al-Aqsans." Or maybe they could have chosen the name "Arafatians."

Who cares what they call themselves?

What matters is that they are not a distinct nation that has been displaced from their country. They never were a nation, and they never had a country.

And that is totally irrelevant to the issues. It doesn't matter whether or not they ever had a nation. In fact - it's entirely irrelevant that the Jews once had a nation thousands of years ago because we don't form nations based on mythology of ancient peoples that existed thousands of years ago. It doesn't make any difference to what is happening now. The people living there now have lived there for generations regardless of what you call them and they are as legitimate as those people who have a proper tribal name.

They are Arabs. They are Arabs like Saudis, Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians are Arabs.

Does that mean they can't make a claim to Israel? No, they can claim whatever they want.

But there are honest claims and there are dishonest claims.

The claim that they are a distinct people is dishonest.

They're not.

End of story.

Buh-bye.

And I'm through with this thread!

So go and flounce off yet again.

They are a people NOW and that is all that matters. The argument that they are that they were "invented" for political purposes doesn't change that and the constant refrain of "they are not a people" is for one purpose only - to deny them any legitimacy to an area they've inhabited for generations.

 

[Coyote]

Originally posted by Coyotes
They are there and they have been there as long as the Jews

Palestinian Jews are probably rolling in their graves right now...

You are using them to somehow justify the mass immigration of the Ashkenazim to the Middle East. An immigration wave they fiercely opposed... if anything because it would upset the arab majority.

I'm not using them to justify anything - I'm talking about the Palestinians - Jews and non-Jews.

 

[Roudy]

Originally posted by Coyotes
They are there and they have been there as long as the Jews

Palestinian Jews are probably rolling in their graves right now...

You are using them to somehow justify the mass immigration of the Ashkenazim to the Middle East. An immigration wave they fiercely opposed... if anything because it would upset the arab majority.

I'm not using them to justify anything - I'm talking about the Palestinians - Jews and non-Jews.

You are proving that you're not informed enough about this topic and you are making up stuff to fit your bias and prejudices. Some of your claims are so outlandish it's laughable. How many times do you want to loose an argument in a single thread? LOL

 

[Coyote]

Palestinian Jews are probably rolling in their graves right now...

You are using them to somehow justify the mass immigration of the Ashkenazim to the Middle East. An immigration wave they fiercely opposed... if anything because it would upset the arab majority.

I'm not using them to justify anything - I'm talking about the Palestinians - Jews and non-Jews.

You are proving that you're not informed enough about this topic and you are making up stuff to fit your bias and prejudices. Some of your claims are so outlandish it's laughable. How many times do you want to loose an argument in a single thread? LOL

I'm not making up anything. I provided sources. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but genetic studies are not wrong and they show ancient connections among those peoples currently living there regardless of what they call themselves.

And, again - what is the point of your OP? To marginalize the Palestinians? To "prove" they have no right to any of that area? What exactly? Who cares what they are - they are people and they too have rights.