My plan for education

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Don't blame the winner just cuz the game is tough. I thought you were a playa. Now I see, you're just a playa hater.

rainman had some amazing abilities you know, it's really not THAT big an insult. Geez. Someone's touchy.

You win. Fine.
Will that shut you up?
Doubtful.

If it does, I win.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by nycflasher
You win. Fine.
Will that shut you up?
Doubtful.

Right. I won. typically that means you should STFU now. See how it works?

I swear on Madonna's costume jewelry that if you reply to this with some quip that I will compose the most egregious emoticon war scene you have ever witnessed. And if you think I'm kiddin', try me.

 

[Big D]

Without blacks and hispanics, U.S schools would be just fine.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by Big D
Without blacks and hispanics, U.S schools would be just fine.

Don't forget the "white trash" and gangs Crips, Bloods, Vice Lords, Folks, violent skin heads, and KKK "wannabes".

 

[mattskramer]

Public financed school lunches is, almost by definition, a step toward Socialism. It is not universal health care but may become universal school lunch program.

If we continue to have public education it should come with stiff, high equal standards. It is time to realize again that there are such things as failure. Those who fail may repeat the course/grade level until they pass or drop out and...well....get a McJob.

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by mattskramer
If we continue to have public education it should come with stiff, high equal standards. It is time to realize again that there are such things as failure. Those who fail may repeat the course/grade level until they pass or drop out and...well....get a McJob.

Realisitically, there aren't that many McD's. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of higher standards, but to just say "pass or drop out and...well....get a McJob" is being way too simplistic, I think.

When and if higher standards are implemented, there are gonna be widespread failures among a significant portion of the student population (20%, conservatively guessing?). To simply toss off these students as expendable would be very irresponsible. What you'll end up with is an inflated welfare group (even more so than now) and a weaker society in general.

At the time that higher standards are "set", there should be some viable alternative training available (mandatory?) for those who fail in the regular education track. If not, we're gonna produce welfare cases instead of taxpayers. That, in turn, will cost all of the rest of us more in the long run than the additional programs would have ever cost originally.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by TN_Independent
Realisitically, there aren't that many McD's. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of higher standards, but to just say "pass or drop out and...well....get a McJob" is being way too simplistic, I think.

When and if higher standards are implemented, there are gonna be widespread failures among a significant portion of the student population (20%, conservatively guessing?). To simply toss off these students as expendable would be very irresponsible. What you'll end up with is an inflated welfare group (even more so than now) and a weaker society in general.

At the time that higher standards are "set", there should be some viable alternative training available (mandatory?) for those who fail in the regular education track. If not, we're gonna produce welfare cases instead of taxpayers. That, in turn, will cost all of the rest of us more in the long run than the additional programs would have ever cost originally.

I just don't think we should eliminate the concept of standards just because some will fail, we need to deal with it in another way besides denial. We're ruining education by aiming for the lowest common denominator.


Alternative mandatory training. Let them become entertainers.

 

[Big D]

Only blacks and hispanics fail when higher standards are implemented, that why they have been lower in the first place.

Hispanic dropout numbers soar

Hispanics make up an increasingly disproportionate share of the nation's high school dropouts, a trend that presents an especially tough task for many small-town and rural school districts searching for better ways to educate rising numbers of immigrant Spanish-speaking students.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/10/11/census.dropouts.ap/

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Let me rephrase my issue. Can we just push a FEW of our bright students to a higher level so we have at least a fighting chance of survival as a nation in an ever more competitive world? Is this too much to ask?

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
I just don't think we should eliminate the concept of standards just because some will fail, we need to deal with it in another way besides denial. We're ruining education by aiming for the lowest common denominator.


Alternative mandatory training. Let them become entertainers.

Again, I'm in no way saying that schools don't need higher standards. A high school diploma is at present a certificate of attendance because of the low standards presently used. No argument there.

'Let them become entertainers' as an alternative for the failures, however, is so irresponsible that given the option of that or what we currently have, I'd choose the present system.

If the students who cannot pass are not given alternative education and/or training, you and I and your kids and mine are going to end up "keeping" them - and there would be many more of them than there are at present.

It is one thing to say that "we need to raise standards". Anyone can do that. To offer a viable, workable solution is quite another.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by TN_Independent
Again, I'm in no way saying that schools don't need higher standards. A high school diploma is at present a certificate of attendance because of the low standards presently used. No argument there.

'Let them become entertainers' as an alternative for the failures, however, is so irresponsible that given the option of that or what we currently have, I'd choose the present system.

If the students who cannot pass are not given alternative education and/or training, you and I and your kids and mine are going to end up "keeping" them - and there would be many more of them than there are at present.

It is one thing to say that "we need to raise standards". Anyone can do that. To offer a viable, workable solution is quite another.

But tn_indy, education is not meant to solve the problem of human difference, no system will ever be able to "solve" that problem. Let them become entertainers is of course not a real solution. The point is, it's a different issue. Let's not ruin the education of all because we can't figure out how to make everyone the same.

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
But tn_indy, education is not meant to solve the problem of human difference, no system will ever be able to "solve" that problem. Let them become entertainers is of course not a real solution. The point is, it's a different issue. Let's not ruin the education of all because we can't figure out how to make everyone the same.

I don't know what your goals are for the educational system, but I'd hope that it would make productive citizens of our children by giving them the knowledge and training that they need to contribute to society.

For me, that's the main objective. Now, if you simply discard the kids who are not capable of completing a "no-free-ride" educational system, you're going to end up with a truckload of children who will become adults without any skills or talents with which to support themselves and their families. That is unacceptable, at least as much as the present system, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by TN_Independent
I don't know what your goals are for the educational system, but I'd hope that it would make productive citizens of our children by giving them the knowledge and training that they need to contribute to society.

For me, that's the main objective. Now, if you simply discard the kids who are not capable of completing a "no-free-ride" educational system, you're going to end up with a truckload of children who will become adults without any skills or talents with which to support themselves and their families. That is unacceptable, at least as much as the present system, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know the answer to that problem but the current sytem ruins education for EVERYBODY. I know that's NOT the answer. Once again you're heaping the problems of human disparity, for whatever reason, into the education system, which is only designed for, suprise, suprise education. You can't reengineer society from a chalkboard, we should quit trying.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
But tn_indy, education is not meant to solve the problem of human difference, no system will ever be able to "solve" that problem. Let them become entertainers is of course not a real solution. The point is, it's a different issue. Let's not ruin the education of all because we can't figure out how to make everyone the same.

Everyone is entitled to an education.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by Big D
Without blacks and hispanics, U.S schools would be just fine.

Without yourself, you mean?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Let me rephrase my issue. Can we just push a FEW of our bright students to a higher level so we have at least a fighting chance of survival as a nation in an ever more competitive world? Is this too much to ask?

As leaders of the free world, I'd say we already have more thana fighting chance.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Everyone is entitled to an education.

No shit. No one is saying deny anyone an education. I'm saying let not shackle all students to the limitations of a few.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by nycflasher
As leaders of the free world, I'd say we already have more thana fighting chance.

But for how long? Are you aware our students are number 17 in the world? Do you care about that? Is this the left's way of finally bringing down America, the Great Satan? Move to europe, hippy.

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
I don't know the answer to that problem but the current sytem ruins education for EVERYBODY. I know that's NOT the answer. Once again you're heaping the problems of human disparity, for whatever reason, into the education system, which is only designed for, suprise, suprise education. You can't reengineer society from a chalkboard, we should quit trying.

rtwng,

Education is.... learning. Learning does not necessarily have to mean ABC's and 123's, at least not strictly those. Education could be, and should be in some cases, things like teaching students to build/repair things that are broken. We should not, I don't think, limit the educational system to desks and books. That's a big part of the problem with it now, as I see it.

What is your goal for education? To make folks smarter? Why? Just to make them more intellectual?

If that's the sole purpose of education, then we should stop the government funding immediately, in my opinion.

I am in favor of government funding of the educational system because I feel it will provide for a more stable, productive society with citizens who are contributors. If it doesn't do that, there is no need for it period.

Now you can claim that there is another objective, and you might even be correct. But if you feel that the purpose of the educational system is as outlined above, then any viable system must aim to train as many as can be trained, be that traditional or otherwise.

As for reengineering society from a classroom - well, if it can be reengineered, then the school system is probably the best option that we have. Teaching students life skills and giving them knowledge and training to succeed in life is as good a method as I can think of for doing that.

TN

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
But for how long? Are you aware our students are number 17 in the world? Do you care about that? Is this the left's way of finally bringing down America, the Great Satan? Move to europe, hippy.

I love how you can draw the wildest conclusions from simple statements of mine. Here you go again telling me to get out of the country.

RWA, you really detract from the quality of this message board.
But I'm sure that won't stop you from staying.