My father has been in the ER for two days and nights waiting for a hospital bed

[Rambunctious]

He’s in Hackensack hospital in New Jersey. Was suffering from nausea and wasn’t able to eat for a few days so we took him to the hospital. Now my question is that if we implement a single payer system doesn’t conventional wisdom tell us our hospitals will be even more overcrowded and of even less quality than they are now?

Hope your dad is okay dude....
I took my uncle to his cardiologist on Monday...while I was waiting a women walked in and said she had eye trauma and her doctor told her to see a heart doctor immediately because her eye could have been a development of a serious heart issue....they told her she would have to wait for 5 weeks or drive 6 hours to LA....she left crying probably wondering how she was going to drive that far with one eye.....if I were king of the US...I would have Pelosi and Obama drawn and quartered on national TV....and then I would strip congress and the senate of their government health care coverage and put them on Obamacare....these careless people disgust me....

Not knowing the details, I'm going to guess that she isn't getting to see a local doctor in a timely manner because her insurance company's network limits her choices locally. By contrast, 91% of all doctors in the country accept Medicare. That breaks down to 87% of family doctors and 99% of all specialist.

My daughter had see a neurosurgeon and her HMO insurance gave her 3 choices within an 100 mile radius 2 were booked up for 5 months. The over one offered her an appointment with their PA with a 3 month wait. I'll bet there are at least 25 neurosurgeons in that area and probably all of them accept Medicare.

Yeah I didn't have all of the details...but I've been hearing stories of super long wait times for appointments...

As I said, long waits for treatment are usually due to limits put on the patient by their insurance company. That's not a problem with Medicare because almost all doctors take Medicare.

Its also the size of my community...we lost some doctors due to retirement and they have not been replaced....but I just don't remember these complaints before the ACA....maybe I was far removed at the time but things today can certainly be made better...and with something as important as healthcare...it should be...

 

[candycorn]

Seems like here in California ER is a quick trip for my wife and me. No matter the problem we are seen rather promptly. Her with her problems and me with mine get seen in about 20 minutes.

I hate to say it but an ER is often the best place to go to get a fast diagnosis, relief from symptoms, and a prescribed treatment, usually within hours. Go to your family doctor and you have to wait for tests and results which can take days or weeks. And if you need specialized treatment then you're off to see a specialist who will probably order more tests. You will probably have a diagnosis within a month or the problem resolves itself, or you're no longer be with us.

Everything you said is correct.

Our ER census is low compared to other full service campuses in the region. Our Walk-In ERs are quite popular. We should have implemented the plan years/decades ago. I often wonder what changed in the marketplace as to suddenly allow all hospitals to open these ERs around the county. I really wonder what the future holds for the 50 bed ER we have downstairs. I'm guessing in 10 years it's going to be defunct.

 

[Flopper]

He’s in Hackensack hospital in New Jersey. Was suffering from nausea and wasn’t able to eat for a few days so we took him to the hospital. Now my question is that if we implement a single payer system doesn’t conventional wisdom tell us our hospitals will be even more overcrowded and of even less quality than they are now?

The V.A. is what Single Payer will look like. The left will lie and deny but the reality your wait time at government ran clinics hours because doctors will close shop and become more scarce.

If the Single Payer is implemented then expect Mexico Medical Community to boom because of Americans crossing the border for Medical Treatment...

Then why is that the largest opposition to privatizing the VA are always the veterans themselves....and they consistently oppose it....

How is this possible? Are vets just a bunch of socialist commie libs?

Are they? I'm a Vet and I worry that if I get a VA card and have to show it to get medical care like Medicare or Medicaid patients do that I won't get the same level of care someone paying cash would get. Then there is the problem of some places won't take the VA card because it doesn't pay enough and the government can't force them to take it. Then we'll be just like the poor slobs with insurance nobody will take because they don't cover the cost of care and we might as well not have any insurance at all.

Plus I owe the VA $5,000 because I've never paid a co pay. They don't make you pay it. I can't afford the co pay so I don't pay it. If we turned VA into an insurance I bet those Hospitals will refuse us care if we don't pay it. Without my bi-polar medication I'll end up dead or in jail for murder. I remember what life was like before I got on my pills temper tantrums, and anxiety seasons flip flopping on my ass driving me crazy. I mostly destroyed property. But I've made threats and I felt the anger the barely controlled anger driving me to kill someone. I don't want to be that person again.

You might think that would be an argument for National Health Care Services. For those who end up in jail because unlike me they weren't medicated. But then we revert back to the problem that it isn't free. Someone has to pay for it. And there aren't enough rich folks around to pay all the poor folks medical services.

We could have Medicare for all at the same level of service that seniors get it but it would be costly but probably a lot less than you have heard. The total cost would be about 3.2 trillion dollars. However, it would replace Medicaid and private health insurance but it would leave the tax payers on the hook for an additional trillion dollars in taxes.

 

[Flopper]

Seems like here in California ER is a quick trip for my wife and me. No matter the problem we are seen rather promptly. Her with her problems and me with mine get seen in about 20 minutes.

I hate to say it but an ER is often the best place to go to get a fast diagnosis, relief from symptoms, and a prescribed treatment, usually within hours. Go to your family doctor and you have to wait for tests and results which can take days or weeks. And if you need specialized treatment then you're off to see a specialist who will probably order more tests. You will probably have a diagnosis within a month or the problem resolves itself, or you're no longer be with us.

Everything you said is correct.

Our ER census is low compared to other full service campuses in the region. Our Walk-In ERs are quite popular. We should have implemented the plan years/decades ago. I often wonder what changed in the marketplace as to suddenly allow all hospitals to open these ERs around the county. I really wonder what the future holds for the 50 bed ER we have downstairs. I'm guessing in 10 years it's going to be defunct.

Maybe expanding Medicaid has decreased the amount of nopays.

 

[Flopper]

He’s in Hackensack hospital in New Jersey. Was suffering from nausea and wasn’t able to eat for a few days so we took him to the hospital. Now my question is that if we implement a single payer system doesn’t conventional wisdom tell us our hospitals will be even more overcrowded and of even less quality than they are now?

Hope your dad is okay dude....
I took my uncle to his cardiologist on Monday...while I was waiting a women walked in and said she had eye trauma and her doctor told her to see a heart doctor immediately because her eye could have been a development of a serious heart issue....they told her she would have to wait for 5 weeks or drive 6 hours to LA....she left crying probably wondering how she was going to drive that far with one eye.....if I were king of the US...I would have Pelosi and Obama drawn and quartered on national TV....and then I would strip congress and the senate of their government health care coverage and put them on Obamacare....these careless people disgust me....

Not knowing the details, I'm going to guess that she isn't getting to see a local doctor in a timely manner because her insurance company's network limits her choices locally. By contrast, 91% of all doctors in the country accept Medicare. That breaks down to 87% of family doctors and 99% of all specialist.

My daughter had see a neurosurgeon and her HMO insurance gave her 3 choices within an 100 mile radius 2 were booked up for 5 months. The over one offered her an appointment with their PA with a 3 month wait. I'll bet there are at least 25 neurosurgeons in that area and probably all of them accept Medicare.

Yeah I didn't have all of the details...but I've been hearing stories of super long wait times for appointments...

As I said, long waits for treatment are usually due to limits put on the patient by their insurance company. That's not a problem with Medicare because almost all doctors take Medicare.

Its also the size of my community...we lost some doctors due to retirement and they have not been replaced....but I just don't remember these complaints before the ACA....maybe I was far removed at the time but things today can certainly be made better...and with something as important as healthcare...it should be...

I saw a report not long ago about the loss of hospitals in rural areas. To me that sounds like a big problem because once the hospital goes, other healthcare providers follow.

 

[candycorn]

Seems like here in California ER is a quick trip for my wife and me. No matter the problem we are seen rather promptly. Her with her problems and me with mine get seen in about 20 minutes.

I hate to say it but an ER is often the best place to go to get a fast diagnosis, relief from symptoms, and a prescribed treatment, usually within hours. Go to your family doctor and you have to wait for tests and results which can take days or weeks. And if you need specialized treatment then you're off to see a specialist who will probably order more tests. You will probably have a diagnosis within a month or the problem resolves itself, or you're no longer be with us.

Everything you said is correct.

Our ER census is low compared to other full service campuses in the region. Our Walk-In ERs are quite popular. We should have implemented the plan years/decades ago. I often wonder what changed in the marketplace as to suddenly allow all hospitals to open these ERs around the county. I really wonder what the future holds for the 50 bed ER we have downstairs. I'm guessing in 10 years it's going to be defunct.

Maybe expanding Medicaid has decreased the amount of nopays.

Dunno.

I always thought it was something regulatory. There was (I'm guessing) some regulation that required an ER to have this, that, and the other so you only had a few ER rooms. Now, that regulation (if there was one) has been relaxed and presto, every strip center has an ER next to the nail place and dry cleaner.

You may be right.

 

[keepitreal]

He’s in Hackensack hospital in New Jersey. Was suffering from nausea and wasn’t able to eat for a few days so we took him to the hospital. Now my question is that if we implement a single payer system doesn’t conventional wisdom tell us our hospitals will be even more overcrowded and of even less quality than they are now?

Sorry to hear about that...

Your father should self identify as an illegal from Mexico...
that should help speed things up

 

[Flopper]

Taking the profit motive out of providing health insurance to people doesn't mean students will stop studying life sciences -- can you show me anywhere among the other developed countries in the world where people have just stopped learning about organic chemistry??

Why do you feel it is necessary for private insurance companies to make billions for their shareholders at the expense of the consumers is the only way we can insure kids will grow up to want to study biology or chemistry?

An Aspirin in a Hospital cost like $30. Not because some Insurance company is milking the profits. But because part of the cost of the Aspirin is providing healthcare to people who don't pay what it cost. Medicare and Medicaid recipients, illegal immigrants and the general poor. Those who pay, pay more because of those who don't pay.

Today, neither Medicare nor private insurance will pay for over the counter analgesics. Hospitals may bill it but they want get paid for it. A lot of this stuff they use to charge for like aspirin, TV in the room, phone service, meals, snacks, soft drinks, etc is all wrapped up in the daily room cost. When patients were surveyed as what they liked about the hospital that would bring them back they said:
Insurance pays for it
Located close to home
My doctors see me there
Quality of meals
Friendly staff
Accommodations provided with the room like.

 

[Gornoodle]

I’m just wondering what these proponents of single payer plan to do about the overcrowding of hospitals their system would bring.

Maybe you should ask why are capitalist based for profit hospitals overcrowded...

So giving everyone medical coverage is going to decrease the demand?

You’re right, the system socks now. Hospitals are understaffed and overwhelmed, but single payer is only going to make the problem worse.

The fact that the AMA keeps the numbers of doctors down is a big factor in that.problem. The cost of medical school is so high that doctors are pressured to go into special high priced medicine. They discourage GPs and doctors working in rural areas or small towns.
The system is full of problems, but they were created. They can be uncreated.
We have to manage demand. We cannot ignore it or pretend it does not ex\ist.

 

[Flopper]

Taking the profit motive out of providing health insurance to people doesn't mean students will stop studying life sciences -- can you show me anywhere among the other developed countries in the world where people have just stopped learning about organic chemistry??

Why do you feel it is necessary for private insurance companies to make billions for their shareholders at the expense of the consumers is the only way we can insure kids will grow up to want to study biology or chemistry?

An Aspirin in a Hospital cost like $30. Not because some Insurance company is milking the profits. But because part of the cost of the Aspirin is providing healthcare to people who don't pay what it cost. Medicare and Medicaid recipients, illegal immigrants and the general poor. Those who pay, pay more because of those who don't pay.

You do understand you are basically making the case for universal healthcare right?

unless you think the better option is to not provide healthcare at all to people who can't afford to pay and somehow that will magically bring the cost of aspirin down??

By the way, this is what FoxBusiness says about those 30 bucks a pop aspirin pills....but what do they know...

"For starters, most emergency room prices are inflated based on the rates at which insurance companies will reimburse the hospital on a patient's behalf. That's why a single aspirin can cost $30 per pill in the E.R., which is more than six times the price for a bottle of them at the drug store."


Outrageous E.R. Hospital Charges: What to Do

I have never seen an insurance company pay anything even close to hospitals rates. Most insurance companies have contracted reimbursement rates with the hospitals in their network that are usually fairly close to Medicare reimbursement rates. If you go to a hospital out of network, God help you because your insurance company sure won't. The company will pay a percent, often 70% of a usual and customary rate or some secret average rate which is always a lot less than what the hospital bills. Since the out of network hospital has no contract with your insurance company, the hospital can bill you the difference between their inflated charge and what the insurance pays which can leave you with a huge bill. This is just one of many little tricks in the insurance company bag of wonder.

 

[Flopper]

Seems like here in California ER is a quick trip for my wife and me. No matter the problem we are seen rather promptly. Her with her problems and me with mine get seen in about 20 minutes.

I hate to say it but an ER is often the best place to go to get a fast diagnosis, relief from symptoms, and a prescribed treatment, usually within hours. Go to your family doctor and you have to wait for tests and results which can take days or weeks. And if you need specialized treatment then you're off to see a specialist who will probably order more tests. You will probably have a diagnosis within a month or the problem resolves itself, or you're no longer be with us.

Everything you said is correct.

Our ER census is low compared to other full service campuses in the region. Our Walk-In ERs are quite popular. We should have implemented the plan years/decades ago. I often wonder what changed in the marketplace as to suddenly allow all hospitals to open these ERs around the county. I really wonder what the future holds for the 50 bed ER we have downstairs. I'm guessing in 10 years it's going to be defunct.

Maybe expanding Medicaid has decreased the amount of nopays.

Dunno.

I always thought it was something regulatory. There was (I'm guessing) some regulation that required an ER to have this, that, and the other so you only had a few ER rooms. Now, that regulation (if there was one) has been relaxed and presto, every strip center has an ER next to the nail place and dry cleaner.

You may be right.

I think what you are seeing in shopping centers is not an ER. It's a walk-in clinic or urgent care center. They are great places to go to for a prescription for a sore throat, your sons ear ack or an xray to see if you have a broken bone. However, it you are really sick, having chest pains, been in a serious accident, unusual symptoms, etc, it will be off to the hospital ER where they have all the big guns, MRIs, EEGs, EKGs, a complete lab, and a host of specialists on call. You might get out of a walk-in with a $100 bill but for a real ER, add a 0 to for starters.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

and when are we going to see seniors marching in the streets demanding that Medicare be privatized and they can get back to having the almighty profit motive make decisions about their health services???

For some reason, seniors keep on overwhelmingly loving their Medicare -- im thinking they most have become communist socialist traitors once they became AARP members

How many supplement plans do they need to cover everything?

If you are going to discuss Medicare maybe you should also add the government does not cover everything and seniors carry supplement plans at an extra charge or did you not know this?

Are you saying that the free market doesn't already offer plans to seniors that are far more superior and more affordable than Medicare?

You would think seniors nationwide would be leaving Medicare and flocking over to those private insurers -- why aren't they?

In fact, there shouldn't have ever been a need for Medicare if the private markets were already offering better plans....but they were not.....can you tell me why that was?

 

[debbiedowner]

He’s in Hackensack hospital in New Jersey. Was suffering from nausea and wasn’t able to eat for a few days so we took him to the hospital. Now my question is that if we implement a single payer system doesn’t conventional wisdom tell us our hospitals will be even more overcrowded and of even less quality than they are now?

Hope your dad is okay dude....
I took my uncle to his cardiologist on Monday...while I was waiting a women walked in and said she had eye trauma and her doctor told her to see a heart doctor immediately because her eye could have been a development of a serious heart issue....they told her she would have to wait for 5 weeks or drive 6 hours to LA....she left crying probably wondering how she was going to drive that far with one eye.....if I were king of the US...I would have Pelosi and Obama drawn and quartered on national TV....and then I would strip congress and the senate of their government health care coverage and put them on Obamacare....these careless people disgust me....

Not knowing the details, I'm going to guess that she isn't getting to see a local doctor in a timely manner because her insurance company's network limits her choices locally. By contrast, 91% of all doctors in the country accept Medicare. That breaks down to 87% of family doctors and 99% of all specialist.

My daughter had see a neurosurgeon and her HMO insurance gave her 3 choices within an 100 mile radius 2 were booked up for 5 months. The over one offered her an appointment with their PA with a 3 month wait. I'll bet there are at least 25 neurosurgeons in that area and probably all of them accept Medicare.

Yeah I didn't have all of the details...but I've been hearing stories of super long wait times for appointments...

There have been long waits for most specialists for more than the obama years. I waited 6 months for a colonoscopy back in 2000 even though I was having problems. Family doctor have always been able to see same or next day appt for 50 years. The only way I've found to see a specialist quick is get admitted to the hospital through the ER for a problem.

Talking about ER's I have learned in the past 10 years that if you go in with chest pains or exhibiting stroke symptoms and are over 55 they usually see you ahead of anyone waiting for hours.

 

[Cecilie1200]

He’s in Hackensack hospital in New Jersey. Was suffering from nausea and wasn’t able to eat for a few days so we took him to the hospital. Now my question is that if we implement a single payer system doesn’t conventional wisdom tell us our hospitals will be even more overcrowded and of even less quality than they are now?

Hope your dad is okay dude....
I took my uncle to his cardiologist on Monday...while I was waiting a women walked in and said she had eye trauma and her doctor told her to see a heart doctor immediately because her eye could have been a development of a serious heart issue....they told her she would have to wait for 5 weeks or drive 6 hours to LA....she left crying probably wondering how she was going to drive that far with one eye.....if I were king of the US...I would have Pelosi and Obama drawn and quartered on national TV....and then I would strip congress and the senate of their government health care coverage and put them on Obamacare....these careless people disgust me....

Not knowing the details, I'm going to guess that she isn't getting to see a local doctor in a timely manner because her insurance company's network limits her choices locally. By contrast, 91% of all doctors in the country accept Medicare. That breaks down to 87% of family doctors and 99% of all specialist.

My daughter had see a neurosurgeon and her HMO insurance gave her 3 choices within an 100 mile radius 2 were booked up for 5 months. The over one offered her an appointment with their PA with a 3 month wait. I'll bet there are at least 25 neurosurgeons in that area and probably all of them accept Medicare.

Yeah I didn't have all of the details...but I've been hearing stories of super long wait times for appointments...

As I said, long waits for treatment are usually due to limits put on the patient by their insurance company. That's not a problem with Medicare because almost all doctors take Medicare.

Increasing numbers of doctors don't take Medicare, and every doctor who takes Medicare only takes so many patients who have it, and then fills out the rest of their patient slots with private insurance. They also, to the extent that it's possible, try to maintain that payer mix when they're scheduling appointments. Obviously, they aren't going to let you know that if they can help it. But when they tell you what the next available appointment is, there's a possibility it's the next available appointment for your payer.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Seems like here in California ER is a quick trip for my wife and me. No matter the problem we are seen rather promptly. Her with her problems and me with mine get seen in about 20 minutes.

I hate to say it but an ER is often the best place to go to get a fast diagnosis, relief from symptoms, and a prescribed treatment, usually within hours. Go to your family doctor and you have to wait for tests and results which can take days or weeks. And if you need specialized treatment then you're off to see a specialist who will probably order more tests. You will probably have a diagnosis within a month or the problem resolves itself, or you're no longer be with us.

Everything you said is correct.

Our ER census is low compared to other full service campuses in the region. Our Walk-In ERs are quite popular. We should have implemented the plan years/decades ago. I often wonder what changed in the marketplace as to suddenly allow all hospitals to open these ERs around the county. I really wonder what the future holds for the 50 bed ER we have downstairs. I'm guessing in 10 years it's going to be defunct.

Maybe expanding Medicaid has decreased the amount of nopays.

Dunno.

I always thought it was something regulatory. There was (I'm guessing) some regulation that required an ER to have this, that, and the other so you only had a few ER rooms. Now, that regulation (if there was one) has been relaxed and presto, every strip center has an ER next to the nail place and dry cleaner.

You may be right.

I think what you are seeing in shopping centers is not an ER. It's a walk-in clinic or urgent care center. They are great places to go to for a prescription for a sore throat, your sons ear ack or an xray to see if you have a broken bone. However, it you are really sick, having chest pains, been in a serious accident, unusual symptoms, etc, it will be off to the hospital ER where they have all the big guns, MRIs, EEGs, EKGs, a complete lab, and a host of specialists on call. You might get out of a walk-in with a $100 bill but for a real ER, add a 0 to for starters.

Mostly, they are stand-alone urgent care centers, but there is an increasing number of stand-alone emergency rooms popping up around the country.

 

[Natural Citizen]

He’s in Hackensack hospital in New Jersey. Was suffering from nausea and wasn’t able to eat for a few days so we took him to the hospital. Now my question is that if we implement a single payer system doesn’t conventional wisdom tell us our hospitals will be even more overcrowded and of even less quality than they are now?

Any time the federal government is involved in healthcare, like education and any other thing they get involved in, the quality goes down and the cost goes up.

 

[Lysistrata]

He’s in Hackensack hospital in New Jersey. Was suffering from nausea and wasn’t able to eat for a few days so we took him to the hospital. Now my question is that if we implement a single payer system doesn’t conventional wisdom tell us our hospitals will be even more overcrowded and of even less quality than they are now?

Not if we devote the time and money to our national healthcare system that we now spend on absolute crap.

I'm sorry for what is going on with your father. The same thing happened with my dad in various hospitals, including Valley in Ridgewood and Pascack Valley, before I brought him to Maryland to care for him. Best wishes for your father's recovery.

 

[Wry Catcher]

He’s in Hackensack hospital in New Jersey. Was suffering from nausea and wasn’t able to eat for a few days so we took him to the hospital. Now my question is that if we implement a single payer system doesn’t conventional wisdom tell us our hospitals will be even more overcrowded and of even less quality than they are now?

Only if eggplants and elephants have four legs and are purple.

Seriously, seek out the hospital ombudsman and express your concern.

 

[Flopper]

Taking the profit motive out of providing health insurance to people doesn't mean students will stop studying life sciences -- can you show me anywhere among the other developed countries in the world where people have just stopped learning about organic chemistry??

Why do you feel it is necessary for private insurance companies to make billions for their shareholders at the expense of the consumers is the only way we can insure kids will grow up to want to study biology or chemistry?

An Aspirin in a Hospital cost like $30. Not because some Insurance company is milking the profits. But because part of the cost of the Aspirin is providing healthcare to people who don't pay what it cost. Medicare and Medicaid recipients, illegal immigrants and the general poor. Those who pay, pay more because of those who don't pay.

You are correct. Right now, with Medicare only choosing to pay 80% of the cost of care, that means private insurance is getting charged more to take up the difference. If there's no private insurance, then what? Is the expense of providing the services going to go down just because the government decides it's not going to pay that much?

Only 19% of Medicare beneficiaries pay the 20% coinsurance. Private insurance makes up most of the difference. No plan approved by congress is going to allow people with income and financial resources to get totally free healthcare. Neither democrats nor republicans would approve such a plan and that means there will still be a place for insurance even with single payer.

Also consider that most states use insurance companies to provide coverage for their Medicaid clients and 35% of all Medicare beneficiaries have assigned their Medicare benefits to an insurance company that provides a MedAdvantage insurance plan. No matter what happens insurance companies are going to be around for a long long time.

 

[Rambunctious]

There have been long waits for most specialists for more than the obama years. I waited 6 months for a colonoscopy back in 2000

Bullcrap...I don't believe that for a second....lmao....