Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[gautama]

The fact is, you are not an expert on Islam .
I can assure you the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia is and he says you are wrong.

Then you agree with him when he says that Islam is a religion of Peace?

And also says;

"Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia: Everybody’s Duty to Condemn Terrorist Organizations"

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Phoni-Baloni-Sunni,

Ever hear of the ******* Muslim "TAQIYAH" straight out of Psycho Mohammed's orifice ?!?!?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Where does he say Islam is a religion of peace?

Grand mufti denounces terrorism

"He said that Islam condemned an act that was aimed at creating anarchy in a society. “Being the religion of peace, it calls for an end to cruelty and defiance. Allah has called Muslims the best Ummah on the face of the earth and he who kills a Muslim deliberately would be sent to hell,” Mufti Abdullah said.

Grand mufti denounces terrorism – The Express Tribune

An end to cruelty and defiance is submission to Islam from an Islamic POV.
Mohammad was a terrorist,as are good muslims we have been over this before.

'Abdullah bin 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
Allah's Messenger said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, perform the Prayer, and pay Zakah. If they do that, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Mohammad abrogates 2:256
Only muslims pay zakah ,only muslims believe Mohammad is a prophet.


33:21. Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad ) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much.

Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 7 :: Hadith 331
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.

1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey.

2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due.

3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me.

4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection).

5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.
__________________

Main Entry: awe
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: amazement
Synonyms: admiration, apprehension, astonishment, consternation, dread, esteem, fear, fright, horror, regard, respect, reverence, shock, stupefaction, terror, veneration, wonder, wonderment, worship

Interpretation of Dreams
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 87 :: Hadith 127
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with awe (cast into the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping last night, the keys of the treasures of the earth were brought to me till they were put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle left (this world) and now you people are carrying those treasures from place to place.



33:21. Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad ) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much.

 

[Ropey]

Grand mufti

"Allah has called Muslims the best Ummah on the face of the earth and he who kills a Muslim deliberately would be sent to hell," Mufti Abdullah said.

Grand mufti denounces terrorism – The Express Tribune

What about a Jew? Homosexual? Homosexual Jew? How about a Muslim woman who marries outside of Islam?

He also says (In your link)

Islam endorses moderation, there is no room for materialism,” he said.

No room for materialism? Now if that's not against the Western Philosophy, what is, may I ask?

 

[gautama]

In anycase, as far as the abrogated verse 2:256 the Mufti provides the proof.

Nope.

The Oxford Dictionary is still western explanations based on western thought.

And is not Islamically correct; or has anything to do with the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia

OK.....let's see if we got this down correctly: Phoni- Baloni- Sunni, who REPEATEDLY claims that he is NOT an expert.....but merely a practitioner of Islam ....... now claims that he is MORE of an expert than the Oxford Dictionary which to all is known to use as it's base for definitions the practice of invariably going to the source. In this case to the Qu'ran.

Seems to me that here we have another example of how Phoni-Baloni- Sunni is a ........PHONEY BALONEY !!!!

 

[Sunni Man]

I personally know several Islamic scholars.

Plus, I have attended numerous Islamic lectures and seminars.

And never once have I seen the speaker or Imam quote out of the western published Oxford Islamic Dictionary.

 

[editec]

Good fences make good neighbors, folks.

There are significant philosophical differences in mindset between the Western and the Islamic world, and frankly, I see no way to reconcile those except either by keeping each world at arms length (which I think is the raight path) or one dominating the other (which I think leads to armagadon)

 

[High_Gravity]

Maybe we should take a page out of their book in regards to whats expected of our guests.

Only in behavior that treads on the rights of others I think.

Well I think most polite people do respect the customs and protocol of the country they are visiting or move to. But, unless it is a security concern or violates the law re public decency, we allow people to dress however they wish here. Burkas, skullcaps, saris, or any other ethnic or religious garb is okay on the public streets. I do have problems with those who come here expecting us to modify or give up our customs and traditions in favor of theirs though.

So while I respect an Islamic country's requirement for a certain dress code when I visit there, I don't want it imposed by law into in my own western civilization culture. Our mode of dress here is dictated by fashion trends and what is appropriate for a particular place or event. Ditto for dietary customs and requirements. Ditto if I choose to have a glass of wine at dinner or a cold beer on a summer day. Or any other freedoms that we 'westerners' cherish and hold dear.

Absolutely, I just want the same respect back. When Westerners visit Muslim countries they are expected to follow the law of the land and be respectful to religious customs, for example during Ramadan if you are caughting eating, drinking or smoking in the presence of a fasting Muslim you can be arrested. They have zero tolerance when it comes to their laws, but Westerners are supposed to bend over backwards to accomodate Muslims? sorry I don't agree.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I personally know several Islamic scholars.

Plus, I have attended numerous Islamic lectures and seminars.

And never once have I seen the speaker or Imam quote out of the western published Oxford Islamic Dictionary.

It is not Oxford Islamic Dictionary, its the oxford Islamic studies affiliated with oxford university,Georgetown University,Boston College,University of South Carolina,
About the Editors and Advisory Boards - Oxford Islamic Studies Online
It is run by apologist in chief John L. Esposito, snot nosed toadie of Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal .

 

[Sunni Man]

Absolutely, I just want the same respect back. When Westerners visit Muslim countries they are expected to follow the law of the land......

When muslims, or any other foreign person comes to the U.S.

They are expected to follow American "law of the land".

Asians cook and eat dogs legally in their countries.

But will be arrested for killing dog to eat in America.


So what's the problem??


Foreigners have to obey our laws.

We have to obey their laws when in their country.

 

[High_Gravity]

Absolutely, I just want the same respect back. When Westerners visit Muslim countries they are expected to follow the law of the land......

When muslims, or any other foreign person comes to the U.S.

They are expected to follow American "law of the land".

Asians cook and eat dogs legally in their countries.

But will be arrested for killing dog to eat in America.


So what's the problem??


Foreigners have to obey our laws.

We have to obey their laws when in their country.

I understand that Sunni the thing I don't get is why some Muslims are trying to get Shariah courts set up in the US, they know the US is not a Muslim country when they came here, if they wanted to live under Shariah why come here? if I went to Iran and demanded to Christian courts would I be accomodated? probably not. And by the way I don't agree with any religious courts in the US no matter what religion.

 

[gautama]

Absolutely, I just want the same respect back. When Westerners visit Muslim countries they are expected to follow the law of the land......

When muslims, or any other foreign person comes to the U.S.

They are expected to follow American "law of the land".

Asians cook and eat dogs legally in their countries.

But will be arrested for killing dog to eat in America.


So what's the problem??


Foreigners have to obey our laws.

We have to obey their laws when in their country.

Phoni-Sunni-Baloni,

The point is the law of the civilized countries in the West or East are CIVILIZED......and are NOT "religion" discriminatory.

The laws in Muslim countries are not only discriminatory against other religions......they are BARBARIC !!!

And, the example of the DE FACTO laws in Muslim Pakistan.....in theory and in deed........are the topic of my thread in the category "RELIGION". Title: "Are the Muslims 'peaceful'.....Or...."

 

[José]

Originally posted by Sunni Man
Foreigners have to obey our laws.

We have to obey their laws when in their country.

Tell this to the thousands of iranian girls and women who are seen putting on the hijab as soon as they arrive in Teeran. Those women are forced to dress "in a modest way" by a medieval state authoritarian to the core that tries to regulate the private life of its citizens.

Your attempt to portray dictatorial, theocratic laws as if they were the most natural thing in the world is laughable.

 

[Sunni Man]

Your attempt to portray dictatorial, theocratic laws as if they were the most natural thing in the world is laughable.

Our country; our laws.

Their country; their laws.

Don't like it.

Don't visit.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, it has been an interesting discussion and I'll look back in now and then. My interest, however, is NOT in bashing any Muslim or Islam in general. My interest is preserving and protecting Western Civilization which I see as preferable to reverting to mandatory religious laws of any kind. I want the people to have their unalienable rights secured and do what is right in their hearts and order society based on that and not via edicts of any religious cleric or government. I don't think I have much to add to that without repeating myself.

As I think most or perhaps all of Islam does not recognize nor respect unalienable rights of the people, I do not want it to have power in our country, nor do I want us to capitulate to any demands it might make. I think it is a tragedy for those forced to submit, but those who choose to live under Islamic law should do that in some other country. I don't want to lose our uniquely American culture and the basic appreciation for freedom and self governance that most Americans feel in their bones.

Sunniman rightly points to the peaceful Muslims and mosques in the U.S. But Muslims in the U.S. are so far in a small minority. He won't or hasn't addressed the issues addressed when those minorities become substantial ones and/or when Muslims achieve a majority. He can't give me any assurance that our unalienable rights would still be recognized, respected, and protected.

So, I still think the OP is on target. I do believe the ultimate dicates of the Qu'ran are that all live under the authority of Allah. I choose not to do so.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEXWjlgJ83E[/ame]

 

[Foxfyre]

That presentation affirms what many around the world are now reporting, Mr. F. I wonder if any will choose to rebut it with anything substantial?

One of our close family members was in France last year and inadvertently wandered into one of the Muslim "ghettos". She definitely felt like she was being personally threatened and felt lucky to retreat and get out of the area unscathed. She is reasonably certain that had she lingered, she would not have been so fortunate.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

She will be safe, the caped crusader is there to save the day.
Paris 'Muslim Batman' angers right-wing U.S. bloggers


BY RORY MULHOLLAND, AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE JANUARY 7, 2011 BE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT


Batman has battled many enemies but now has to face the anger of right-wing U.S. bloggers furious that the comic book caped crusader has recruited a Muslim to run his crime-fighting franchise in Paris.

"The character's name is Bilal Asselah and he is an Algerian Sunni Muslim and an immigrant that is physically fit and adept at the gymnastic sport parkour," wrote Warner Todd Huston on his site Publius Forum. "Apparently Batman couldn't find any actual Frenchman to be the 'French saviour,' " wrote the right-winger, apparently discounting the millions of French citizens of North African descent from his definition of "actual" French.

In the December issues of DC Comics Detective Comics Annual and Batman Annual, the caped crusader has set up Batman Incorporated and wants to install superheroes in cities around the world to fight crime.

The hero he picks in France is called Nightrunner, the alter ego of Bilal Asselah, a 22-year-old from a tough Paris suburb who had been caught up in rioting, but decided to reject hate and fear.



Read more: Paris 'Muslim Batman' angers right-wing U.S. bloggers

 

[Foxfyre]

LOL. Well "Batman" of whatever stripe can't be everywhere. So I think common sense and a good practice of prudence is still in order in these things.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

The hero he picks in France is called Nightrunner, the alter ego of Bilal Asselah, a 22-year-old from a tough Paris suburb who had been caught up in rioting, but decided to reject hate and fear.

He concentrates on learning parkour, the form of acrobatics where practitioners jump from buildings and leap over walls and street furniture, as seen at the start of the 2006 James Bond film Casino Royale.

When riots threaten to engulf his neighbourhood, Bilal puts on a mask and, using his parkour skills, becomes Nightrunner and sets out to set things right again.

Nightrunner's integrity, athletic prowess, and triumph over adversity made him Bruce Wayne's obvious choice to represent Batman in Paris.

But right-wing bloggers in the United States are incensed that DC Comics chose to make their new superhero a Muslim. They see it as pandering to political correctness.

"In this age when Muslim youths are terrorizing (France), heck in this age of international Muslim terrorism assaulting the whole world, Batman's readers will be confused by what is really going on in the world," wrote Huston on Publius Forum.

The Angry White Dude blog, mocked that "Nightrunner the Muslim sidekick will have strange new powers to bury women to their waists and bash their heads in with large rocks."



Read more: Paris 'Muslim Batman' angers right-wing U.S. bloggers

 

[Sunni Man]

If the new Batman had been a Jew; nothing would be said.