Muslim Prayer Calls on Loudspeakers

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Are you implying that bigots are not americans? If so then I assume you are the final judge of a persons patriotism. How did you get this job? Face it--people are "good"or "bad" in every country. This demand that America live up to a higher standard is usually followed by a comment like "we are BETTER than that". This is the ultimate form of bigotry. America consists of numerous religions and races. Which religion and race are we better than?

Americans can be bigots, but bigotry, no longer at least, is not an American ideal.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by proud_savagette
No, I don't think of church, because my elementary school was ghetto, and they used the church bells to let everyone know when school was starting and when we got out. Sorry. SEems as if you are just a bit close-minded when it comes to what church bells can represent. Of course, you are probably going to post back saying that my school is just an exception, blah blah blah, but how the heck would you know????



Do you know what they are saying in this message that comes over speakers five times a day? It puts down all other religions besides the 'wonderful religion of Islam." Right...I'm not sure how church bells are proclaiming Christianity as the right religion...you know, many Christian churches don't even have bells...and by the way, when the Founding Fathers wrote the first amendment they were supporting freedom of religion, so in a way, they were endorsing it, because they were saying that you could practice any religion you want. But that's the key. PRACTICE any religion you want, not shove it down other people's throats via loudspeakers for pete's sake. The Church bells don't have a message going on that says "Christ is the one true Messiah, the only way to God is through Christ," so on, so forth. That would be violating it right? And what about the ten commandments? They took those down from courthouses, because they containted the written word of the bible on them; can you tell me what the difference is between the muslim call to prayer and the ten commandments?

I'll have to finish defending myself from your idiotic attacks later, because I have homework to do...

First off, no, you are not the exception. In every single town in America church bells are NEVER EVER used as a call to prayer, they are ONLY used as a bell for school. And since everyone in America had the EXACT same experience you did, NO ONE in America, except CRAZY me, actually associates the sound of CHURCH BELLS with CHURCH. My bad, I stand corrected.

I would be happy if you would furnish the English translation of the Muslim call to prayer.


And lastly, last I checked the Muslims aren't asking for the right to call to prayer from COURTHOUSES, so I fail to see what taking the 10 commandments down from a COURTHOUSE has to do with this discussion. Perhaps you can enlightenment.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by Patriot
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36118



Requiring seventh-grade students to pretend they're Muslims, wear Islamic garb, memorize verses from the Quran, pray to Allah and even to play "jihad games" in California public schools has been legally upheld by a federal judge, who has dismissed a highly publicized lawsuit brought by several Christian students and their parents.

WOW, now that's crazy. I think it will be overturned on appeal, if not by the 9th Circuit, the Supreme Court.

I remember in 7th grade world history all we learned about Islam is that they want to take over the world and kill everyone. A horrible, horrible thing they did to teach me lies like that, but forcing kids to pray to Allah is taking it a bit to far in the other direction I think! Certainly we can give children a historical and unbiased education of Islam, Christianity, and all world religions, without forcing them to pray!

 

[insein]

Originally posted by SpidermanTuba
The sound of CHURCH bells have no overtly religious message?

Many Churchs set off their bells right before the service starts. Sounds like a call to prayer to me.

And the stock market has bells at the begining and end of trading. IS that a call for prayer? When the phillies hit a homerun, the Liberty Bell Replica rings. Is that a call to prayer?

When you here a muslim prayer over a loud speaker, i believe thats a call to prayer. I also believe that imposes their religion upon people who may not beleive in their religion and that is religious oppression. Its not being played within the mosque to just their members. ITs being blasted 5 times a day to the whole neighborhood. People hear it in the streets, in their homes, in their cars.

Thats forcing their religion upon people who do not want it forced upon them. If the 10 commandments cant be displayed by in a courthouse as a personal item by a judge and prayer cant be made in a public school, then a call to prayer for muslims cant be blasted 5 times a day to hundreds of people who don't believe that religion.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by insein
And the stock market has bells at the begining and end of trading. IS that a call for prayer? When the phillies hit a homerun, the Liberty Bell Replica rings. Is that a call to prayer?

When you here a muslim prayer over a loud speaker, i believe thats a call to prayer. I also believe that imposes their religion upon people who may not beleive in their religion and that is religious oppression. Its not being played within the mosque to just their members. ITs being blasted 5 times a day to the whole neighborhood. People hear it in the streets, in their homes, in their cars.

Thats forcing their religion upon people who do not want it forced upon them. If the 10 commandments cant be displayed by in a courthouse as a personal item by a judge and prayer cant be made in a public school, then a call to prayer for muslims cant be blasted 5 times a day to hundreds of people who don't believe that religion.

No, those things aren't calls to prayer. Perhaps you can't tell the difference, but I know what church bells sound like. What your saying is analogous to the statement "The statement "Everyone come pray" is not a call to prayer because it uses words, and words are used for many things other than a call to pwayer." Church bells are distinctively church bells, and though there are a few exceptions, when you hear something that sounds like church bells, its likely coming from guess where? A CHURCH. It's really amazing you will willingly lie to yourself to the point you fail to admit CHURCH bells have something to do with CHURCH.


If Judges want to display personal items, they can display them in their private office. Judges do not own the courthouse, the courthouses are owned by the state and with the exception of the judges actual office they do not exist for the judges personal use.


Your twists of logic to accomadate your anti-islamic viewpoints are astounding. Wow, CHURCH bells don't have to do with CHURCH, they're just bells, amazing .

 

[insein]

Originally posted by SpidermanTuba
No, those things aren't calls to prayer. Perhaps you can't tell the difference, but I know what church bells sound like. What your saying is analogous to the statement "The statement "Everyone come pray" is not a call to prayer because it uses words, and words are used for many things other than a call to pwayer." Church bells are distinctively church bells, and though there are a few exceptions, when you hear something that sounds like church bells, its likely coming from guess where? A CHURCH. It's really amazing you will willingly lie to yourself to the point you fail to admit CHURCH bells have something to do with CHURCH.


If Judges want to display personal items, they can display them in their private office. Judges do not own the courthouse, the courthouses are owned by the state and with the exception of the judges actual office they do not exist for the judges personal use.


Your twists of logic to accomadate your anti-islamic viewpoints are astounding. Wow, CHURCH bells don't have to do with CHURCH, they're just bells, amazing .

So when clear cut islamic prayer is professed over a loud speaker to hundreds of people who don't believe in that faith, thats not a violation of their religious freedom? Yet when a bell rings and all those who do not believe in that religion simply hear a bell and don't identify it with anything but a bell, its the same thing?

Man your logic goes through the most ridiculous, assinine thought process i have ever seen. A NOISE only has meaning to those who associate with it. A a recited prayer is identifiable to everyone.

Muslims hear a church bell and simply think its a bell. IT doesnt have a symbolic meaning to them. Catholics hear a Muslim prayer being recited over a loud speaker, they associate it with Islam. If Catholic churches started reciting the "our father" or the "Nicene Creed" over a loud speaker would you be for that? I wouldn't because it violates others religious freedom.

 

[jcon96]

A certain Monty Python routine keeps coming to mind during all this discussion of church bells, but I will keep the details to myself, lest it offend anyone.....

 

[proud_savagette]

Well, I suppose you haven't read the whole thread, Spidey, because I did provide the words for it earlier, but I will write them down once more:
Allah is the greatest (4X)
I testify that there is no deity but Allah (2X)
I testify that Muhammad is his Messenger (2x)
Come to prayer (2x)
Come to salvation (2x)
Allah is the greatest
There is no deity but Allah.

There you go.

 

[proud_savagette]

*sigh* now to finish defending myself from your sarcasm...

First off, no, you are not the exception. In every single town in America church bells are NEVER EVER used as a call to prayer, they are ONLY used as a bell for school. And since everyone in America had the EXACT same experience you did, NO ONE in America, except CRAZY me, actually associates the sound of CHURCH BELLS with CHURCH. My bad, I stand corrected.

I didn't mean that every school uses church bells. I simply meant that they can be used for other things, as they were used for my school. That's all I meant. And i know that not every single town in America uses church bells for school. I don't remember writing that. I'm not sure I understand your sarcasm in this one.

And lastly, last I checked the Muslims aren't asking for the right to call to prayer from COURTHOUSES, so I fail to see what taking the 10 commandments down from a COURTHOUSE has to do with this discussion. Perhaps you can enlightenment.

And what I meant when I made the comparison is simply that the Muslim call to prayer proclaims their faith, just as the Ten Commandments proclaims the Jewish and Christian faiths. However, the Ten Commandments were taken down because atheists and people of other religions took offense. Well, Christians and people of other religions take offense to this proclamation of the Islamic religion, but it has not been stopped. That was the basis of my comparison.

 

[cptpwichita]

Imagine had this country been established not on judeo/christian principles,but islamic sharia law.Would we have a constitution with a bill of rights?Do you know any islamic countries that believe man was endowed with the rights to life,liberty,and the pursuit of happiness?

If the majority of people in this country were muslims do you think we would be able to keep our constitution and bill of rights?

 

[cptpwichita]

We fight to protect the very thing that will destroy us,yet we must protect an individuals right to practice their religion even if that religion could mean our downfall.

How many Muslim countries would go to this extreme to protect the rights of Christians and Jews?

 

[insein]

Originally posted by cptpwichita
We fight to protect the very thing that will destroy us,yet we must protect an individuals right to practice their religion even if that religion could mean our downfall.

How many Muslim countries would go to this extreme to protect the rights of Christians and Jews?

Zero...