Muslim flight attendant suspended...

[RetiredGySgt]

Another religious beliefs case.

Muslim flight attendant says she was suspended for refusing to serve alcohol

A Muslim flight attendant says she was suspended by ExpressJet for refusing to serve alcohol in accordance with her Islamic faith.

In a bid to get her job back, Charee Stanley filed a discrimination complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission on Tuesday for the revocation of a reasonable religious accommodation.

She has no case, in fact Islamic leaders in the US in previous attempts to claim cab drivers could refuse passengers with alcohol stated that in relation to their job the religion does NOT prevent their followers from serving or carrying alcohol. The cab drivers lost as well.

 

[Mr. H.]

Yet, refuse to issue same sex marriage licenses and you go to jail.

You think the flight attendant should be jailed?

I don't think she should have been terminated. She should be accommodated.
And I don't think the Clerk should have been jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses.

Accomodated??????

How about SHE finds a new job to accommodate her Islamic religious beliefs????

We accommodate Jews in every way imaginable. Or do you hate Jews too?

 

[skye]

Yet, refuse to issue same sex marriage licenses and you go to jail.

You think the flight attendant should be jailed?

I don't think she should have been terminated. She should be accommodated.
And I don't think the Clerk should have been jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses.

Accomodated??????

How about SHE finds a new job to accommodate her Islamic religious beliefs????

We accommodate Jews in every way imaginable. Or do you hate Jews too?

ok

you are a moron

today

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

If this flight attendant is right, then the cake store simply could have said "Its against our religion to sell homosexual goods of any sort." and they would have been scot-free?

In the real world she is perfectly capable of serving alcohol. I don't think there is Muslim law against serving alcohol, its the consumption which is 'haram'.

you are a very confused individual

How about, instead of judging me, you respond on what you disagree with me. Otherwise, **** off.

okay. well, let's start with the fact that your conclusion is based on a poor understanding of what happened with the bakers.
they were required by law not to discriminate against customers based on their sexual orientation. what you are suggesting is exactly what they did and was/is against the law.
in the case of the flight attendant she is not discriminating against the passengers. she won't serve alcohol to anyone for any reason. there is no law requiring her to do so.

do you understand the difference?

1) The bakers own the business and should not be forced to perform labor for those whom they choose not to perform labor. To be forced by law to do so is nothing less than slavery.

2) The stewardess knew the job requirements when she was hired. The employer can fire her for non-performance of enumerated duties.

Do YOU understand the difference?

1. you're certainly entitled to you opinion, but public accommodation laws have been challenged and found to be constitutional. so... the law is the law regardless of your opinion

2. i don't disagree.

1) No law is settled law.

2) Good.

 

[Ame®icano]

okay. well, let's start with the fact that your conclusion is based on a poor understanding of what happened with the bakers.
they were required by law not to discriminate against customers based on their sexual orientation. what you are suggesting is exactly what they did and was/is against the law.
in the case of the flight attendant she is not discriminating against the passengers. she won't serve alcohol to anyone for any reason. there is no law requiring her to do so.

do you understand the difference?

That's your point of view. You said they discriminated against customers based on customer sexual orientation. I say they did not served customer based on their own religious beliefs. Do you understand the difference?

that is not my point of view. it is reality and not up for debate. you aren't differing with me on what they did. the only thing you're doing is ascribing the a reason - which doesn't matter. the end result is they were choosing not to offer goods and services to people based on the customer's sexual orientation. that is against the law regardless of why the proprietor made the decision.

I agree, they have no right to discriminate based on customer sexual orientation. That's not what they did.
They refused the service based on their own religious beliefs. Just as Muslim bakeries are refusing to do the same thing and nobody is complaining about it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm pretty sure that serving alcohol on the plane is part of her job description. If so, she can't claim discrimination.

i agree with you. and while i think there can be reasonable accommodations made if there can't she can chose between resigning or serving.

If this flight attendant is right, then the cake store simply could have said "Its against our religion to sell homosexual goods of any sort." and they would have been scot-free?

In the real world she is perfectly capable of serving alcohol. I don't think there is Muslim law against serving alcohol, its the consumption which is 'haram'.

you are a very confused individual

How about, instead of judging me, you respond on what you disagree with me. Otherwise, **** off.

okay. well, let's start with the fact that your conclusion is based on a poor understanding of what happened with the bakers.
they were required by law not to discriminate against customers based on their sexual orientation. what you are suggesting is exactly what they did and was/is against the law.
in the case of the flight attendant she is not discriminating against the passengers. she won't serve alcohol to anyone for any reason. there is no law requiring her to do so.

do you understand the difference?

And being against same sex marriage is the same as what you just described, Marriage is between a man and a woman and no one tried to prevent them from marrying only the abnormal illogical same sexes. No discrimination involved.

 

[Mr. H.]

Yet, refuse to issue same sex marriage licenses and you go to jail.

You think the flight attendant should be jailed?

I don't think she should have been terminated. She should be accommodated.
And I don't think the Clerk should have been jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses.

Accomodated??????

How about SHE finds a new job to accommodate her Islamic religious beliefs????

We accommodate Jews in every way imaginable. Or do you hate Jews too?

ok

you are a moron

today

And you are hereby christened a Brotch-slappee!

 

[ogibillm]

you are a very confused individual

How about, instead of judging me, you respond on what you disagree with me. Otherwise, **** off.

okay. well, let's start with the fact that your conclusion is based on a poor understanding of what happened with the bakers.
they were required by law not to discriminate against customers based on their sexual orientation. what you are suggesting is exactly what they did and was/is against the law.
in the case of the flight attendant she is not discriminating against the passengers. she won't serve alcohol to anyone for any reason. there is no law requiring her to do so.

do you understand the difference?

1) The bakers own the business and should not be forced to perform labor for those whom they choose not to perform labor. To be forced by law to do so is nothing less than slavery.

2) The stewardess knew the job requirements when she was hired. The employer can fire her for non-performance of enumerated duties.

Do YOU understand the difference?

1. you're certainly entitled to you opinion, but public accommodation laws have been challenged and found to be constitutional. so... the law is the law regardless of your opinion

2. i don't disagree.

1) No law is settled law.

2) Good.

well today the law and case law are on the side of public accomodation laws. that's the reality of it. if you want that changed it's going to take a lot of work, but if that's your thing by all means go fo it.

 

[Coyote]

Normally, I would say this: When you are hired, you are hired to do a job. Being a stewardess means you will be serving food and beverages. If you can't do a job, or demand more than reasonable accommodations, then you should get another job.

But when I read the OP article - there's more there than meets the eye.

"What this case comes down to is no one should have to choose between their career and religion and it's incumbent upon employers to provide a safe environment where employees can feel they can practice their religion freely," said Lena Masri, an attorney with Michigan chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Stanley, 47, started working for ExpressJet nearly three years ago. About two years ago she converted to Islam. This year she learned her faith prohibits her from not only consuming alcohol but serving it, too, Masri said.

She approached her supervisor on June 1 and was told to work out an arrangement for someone to fulfill passenger requests for alcohol.

"It was at the direction of the airlines that she began coordinating with the other flight attendant on duty so that when a passenger requested alcohol, the other flight attendant would accommodate that request," Masri said. "We know that this arrangement has worked beautifully and without incident and that it hasn't caused any undue burden on the airline. After all, it was the suggestion of the airline."

It seemed to be working out until another flight attendant filed a complaint against Stanley on August 2 claiming she was not fulfilling her duties by refusing to serve alcohol, Masri said. The employee complaint also said Stanley had a book with "foreign writings" and wore a headdress.

On August 25, the airline sent a letter to Stanley informing her that it was revoking its religious accommodation to exclude her from service of alcohol and placing her on administrative leave.

In this case, it does sound like the airline is acting unreasonably by reversing it's prior policy and suspending her when she was only doing what they approved of.

 

[Coyote]

What the heck are "homosexual goods"?

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Shit - you made me spew my wine

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Once again the religion does NOT prohibit the sale of alcohol. a Bunch of Somali cab drivers tried that at an airport a few years back and lost badly when several American Muslim leaders stated for the record that the faith does not prevent the carrying or sale of alcohol.

 

[ogibillm]

okay. well, let's start with the fact that your conclusion is based on a poor understanding of what happened with the bakers.
they were required by law not to discriminate against customers based on their sexual orientation. what you are suggesting is exactly what they did and was/is against the law.
in the case of the flight attendant she is not discriminating against the passengers. she won't serve alcohol to anyone for any reason. there is no law requiring her to do so.

do you understand the difference?

That's your point of view. You said they discriminated against customers based on customer sexual orientation. I say they did not served customer based on their own religious beliefs. Do you understand the difference?

that is not my point of view. it is reality and not up for debate. you aren't differing with me on what they did. the only thing you're doing is ascribing the a reason - which doesn't matter. the end result is they were choosing not to offer goods and services to people based on the customer's sexual orientation. that is against the law regardless of why the proprietor made the decision.

I agree, they have no right to discriminate based on customer sexual orientation. That's not what they did.
They refused the service based on their own religious beliefs. Just as Muslim bakeries are refusing to do the same thing and nobody is complaining about it.

their religious belief that that they should not serve homosexuals. again the reason they choose to discriminate against homosexuals is irrelevant.
they could do it because they believe god wants them to or because they just hate gay people. doesn't matter. the law does not allow them to discriminate based on sexual orientation.

and please, provide us with an example of muslim bakeries discriminating.

 

[ogibillm]

i agree with you. and while i think there can be reasonable accommodations made if there can't she can chose between resigning or serving.

If this flight attendant is right, then the cake store simply could have said "Its against our religion to sell homosexual goods of any sort." and they would have been scot-free?

In the real world she is perfectly capable of serving alcohol. I don't think there is Muslim law against serving alcohol, its the consumption which is 'haram'.

you are a very confused individual

How about, instead of judging me, you respond on what you disagree with me. Otherwise, **** off.

okay. well, let's start with the fact that your conclusion is based on a poor understanding of what happened with the bakers.
they were required by law not to discriminate against customers based on their sexual orientation. what you are suggesting is exactly what they did and was/is against the law.
in the case of the flight attendant she is not discriminating against the passengers. she won't serve alcohol to anyone for any reason. there is no law requiring her to do so.

do you understand the difference?

And being against same sex marriage is the same as what you just described, Marriage is between a man and a woman and no one tried to prevent them from marrying only the abnormal illogical same sexes. No discrimination involved.

can you clarify? who is "them" who are you saying did not discriminate?

 

[Ame®icano]

Does she also refuse to serve ham sandwiches or BLTs?

Could she refuse to serve any woman on the plane if they're not covered up from head to toe?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

This is why religion is complete horse shit. All it does is cause strife around the world.

 

[Ame®icano]

their religious belief that that they should not serve homosexuals. again the reason they choose to discriminate against homosexuals is irrelevant.
they could do it because they believe god wants them to or because they just hate gay people. doesn't matter. the law does not allow them to discriminate based on sexual orientation.

and please, provide us with an example of muslim bakeries discriminating.

Again, they did not refused to serve homosexuals. It was the kind of cake they wanted, not who they were.

If I ask you to put "**** YOU SHITCUNT" on the cake, do you have to do it?

 

[Coyote]

Does she also refuse to serve ham sandwiches or BLTs?

Could she refuse to serve any woman on the plane if they're not covered up from head to toe?

I think what is pertinant is that the airline approved of the accomodation for her religion in the first place and then reversed it and suspended her when one stewardess complained (and complained that she had a books with "foreign writing" and wore a headscarf).

They should have stuck with one policy or the other.

 

[Coyote]

their religious belief that that they should not serve homosexuals. again the reason they choose to discriminate against homosexuals is irrelevant.
they could do it because they believe god wants them to or because they just hate gay people. doesn't matter. the law does not allow them to discriminate based on sexual orientation.

and please, provide us with an example of muslim bakeries discriminating.

Again, they did not refused to serve homosexuals. It was the kind of cake they wanted, not who they were.

If I ask you to put "**** YOU SHITCUNT" on the cake, do you have to do it?

I thought all they wanted was a simple wedding cake. Not something pornographic.

 

[whitehall]

If you referred to her as a "stewardess" you could probably be arrested by the language police. It's a risky world in the 21st century.

 

[blackhawk]

Everyone knows alcohol is served on commerical airline flights if serving it violates your religious beliefs then perhaps you shouldn't have taken a job as a flight attendant.