Murder rate in gun friendly U.S. border counties less than murder rate in gun controlled Mexico...

2aguy

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Jul 19, 2014
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An interesting look at the murder rates in the U.S. and Mexican states and counties that line the border.......the counties in the United States...with lots of gun ownership....have less murder than the Mexican states that have strict gun control....

An interesting look at the border and gun issue...

Borderland Homicides Show Mexico's Gun Control Has Failed

On the other hand, Chihuahua and Texas are very big places. Perhaps if we take a more detailed look at the counties right on the border, we'll get a better feel for how things look at the border.
Thanks to Omar Garcia Ponce and Hannah Postel at the Center for Global Development, the work's already been done for me. Here is a map of the border at the county/municipality level:



Source: Center for Global Development
The general scenario remains the same. In fact, the borderland on the US side of the border have fewer homicides than the US overall. The authors note:
The map [above] illustrates the striking disparity between homicide rates on each side of the border. In 2012 (the most recent year available for all locations), Mexican border municipalities experienced 34.5 murders for every 100,000 people. By contrast, the homicide rate in US border counties was only 1.4, far below the US national average (4.7), and a tiny fraction of that experienced by their Southern neighbors. While almost half of the Mexican municipalities along the border experienced more than 40 murders per 100,000 people in 2012 (176 in Tamaulipas’ Ciudad Mier), the highest homicide rate in the US border counties was 12.9 (Yuma, AZ). The next most violent county experienced only 5.4 murders per 100,000 people. Notably, some of the safest locations in the United States are contiguous to many of the most dangerous places in Mexico. Most striking is the contrast between Ciudad Juárez and El Paso, two large cities that constitute a binational metropolitan area. Once called “the murder capital of the world,” Mexico’s Ciudad Juárez is only 300 feet from El Paso, “America’s safest city.” In 2012, Ciudad Juárez had 58 homicides per 100,000 people, while El Paso experienced fewer than one (0.6).
So why is there such an immense difference here?

Restrictive Gun Laws in Mexico

The pre-packaged retort to this phenomena often repeated in the media is that the US causes the high homicide rates in Mexico by exporting guns to Mexico. We're told that criminals go into the US, buy guns legally in Texas (for example) and then sell the guns illegally to cartels in Mexico.

Dave Kopel has shown that this claim isn't true. But, even if it were true, it wouldn't explain much by itself since we're left asking ourselves why criminals don' just do the same thing to the same homicidal effect in the United States. If it's so fruitful for violent criminals to buy guns in the US and sell them to organized crime rings, why aren't those criminals doing the same thing in the US?

Well, the answer is the criminals probably are are well armed in the US, and have a lot of guns just like criminals in Mexico do. The difference in actual crimes carried out, however, likely lies in the fact that law abiding Mexicans have been disarmed, while law abiding Americans have not.


Gun laws are very restrictive in Mexico, as The Atlantic notes:


Mexico can hardly be described as a heavily armed society. With around 2.5 million registered gun owners and at least 13 million more illegal arms in circulation, the country has a ratio of just 15 guns for every 100 people, well below the global average.

Unlike in the U.S., civilian possession in Mexico is considered a privilege, not a right and is tightly regulated under federal law since the 1970s.

Extensive background checks are required of all purchasers, and there are heavy penalties and even imprisonment for non-compliance.

Astonishingly, there is just one legal gun shop in the country, compared to more than 54,000 federally licensed firearm dealers and thousands of pawnshops and gun shows scattered across the U.S.
 
And this highlights the point I have been making for a long time....it is the criminal sub culture's attitude toward murder that effects the gun murder rate, not access to guns....

Dave Kopel has shown that this claim isn't true.

But, even if it were true, it wouldn't explain much by itself since we're left asking ourselves why criminals don' just do the same thing to the same homicidal effect in the United States.

I
f it's so fruitful for violent criminals to buy guns in the US and sell them to organized crime rings, why aren't those criminals doing the same thing in the US?


And this point...

In other words, in Mexico, there is an immense asymmetry in gun ownership between violent criminals and law-abiding citizens.

Criminals have abundant access to the means of violent coercion, and the will to use it. Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, have, practically speaking, no access.

Meanwhile, local officials can be bought by the criminals, which means that private citizens will then find themselves facing two heavily armed groups who are free to behave maliciously toward the general population with little fear of reprisals.

-------------

And there is no denying that when one crosses the border from Chihuahua to Texas, some of the biggest differences one encounters are legal and political in nature.

Among these differences is the fact that south of the border only government agents and criminals are allowed meaningful access to firearms, while norther of the border, criminals and ordinary citizens share similar levels of access.

What we are witnessing in northern Mexico then, is a tragic mixture of failed Drug War policies mixed with a government refusal to allow Mexicans to arm themselves. Yes, there are many factors at work. Take out some of them — whether drug war, ethnic conflict, or poverty — and the situation would likely be improved.
 
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Not surprising, considering the Mexican government is not capable of enforcing their gun laws.


The criminals get the guns.......but they don't use them on our side of the border......and they don't use them in Southern Mexico.....read the article.....
 
Not surprising, considering the Mexican government is not capable of enforcing their gun laws.


Did you miss this...

Criminals have abundant access to the means of violent coercion, and the will to use it. Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, have, practically speaking, no access.

Meanwhile, local officials can be bought by the criminals, which means that private citizens will then find themselves facing two heavily armed groups who are free to behave maliciously toward the general population with little fear of reprisals.
 
Not surprising, considering the Mexican government is not capable of enforcing their gun laws.


Again...

The general scenario remains the same. In fact, the borderland on the US side of the border have fewer homicides than the US overall. The authors note:
The map [above] illustrates the striking disparity between homicide rates on each side of the border. In 2012 (the most recent year available for all locations), Mexican border municipalities experienced 34.5 murders for every 100,000 people. By contrast, the homicide rate in US border counties was only 1.4, far below the US national average (4.7), and a tiny fraction of that experienced by their Southern neighbors.
 
I wonder how many of the guns being used by cartels today got there because of the ATF.
 
Not surprising, considering the Mexican government is not capable of enforcing their gun laws.


Did you miss this...

Criminals have abundant access to the means of violent coercion, and the will to use it. Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, have, practically speaking, no access.

Meanwhile, local officials can be bought by the criminals, which means that private citizens will then find themselves facing two heavily armed groups who are free to behave maliciously toward the general population with little fear of reprisals.
Good read. So the local officials, whose job it is to enforce gun control, are in the pockets of criminals and thus don't enforce gun control. That really helped strengthen my point thank you. :thup:
 
Not surprising, considering the Mexican government is not capable of enforcing their gun laws.


Did you miss this...

Criminals have abundant access to the means of violent coercion, and the will to use it. Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, have, practically speaking, no access.

Meanwhile, local officials can be bought by the criminals, which means that private citizens will then find themselves facing two heavily armed groups who are free to behave maliciously toward the general population with little fear of reprisals.
Good read. So the local officials, whose job it is to enforce gun control, are in the pockets of criminals and thus don't enforce gun control. That really helped strengthen my point thank you. :thup:


No twit....it shows that Mexico has strict gun control laws....so of course the criminals have easy access to guns and the normal, law abiding citizens do not...since they obey the laws....

This is the reason people need guns:

When the government cannot or will not protect the citizens.
 
Not surprising, considering the Mexican government is not capable of enforcing their gun laws.


Did you miss this...

Criminals have abundant access to the means of violent coercion, and the will to use it. Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, have, practically speaking, no access.

Meanwhile, local officials can be bought by the criminals, which means that private citizens will then find themselves facing two heavily armed groups who are free to behave maliciously toward the general population with little fear of reprisals.
Good read. So the local officials, whose job it is to enforce gun control, are in the pockets of criminals and thus don't enforce gun control. That really helped strengthen my point thank you. :thup:


No twit....it shows that Mexico has strict gun control laws....so of course the criminals have easy access to guns and the normal, law abiding citizens do not...since they obey the laws....

This is the reason people need guns:

When the government cannot or will not protect the citizens.
Or when the government cannot or will not enforce gun control.

Mexico is a really terrible argument for you to be using.
 
Not surprising, considering the Mexican government is not capable of enforcing their gun laws.


Did you miss this...

Criminals have abundant access to the means of violent coercion, and the will to use it. Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, have, practically speaking, no access.

Meanwhile, local officials can be bought by the criminals, which means that private citizens will then find themselves facing two heavily armed groups who are free to behave maliciously toward the general population with little fear of reprisals.
Good read. So the local officials, whose job it is to enforce gun control, are in the pockets of criminals and thus don't enforce gun control. That really helped strengthen my point thank you. :thup:


No twit....it shows that Mexico has strict gun control laws....so of course the criminals have easy access to guns and the normal, law abiding citizens do not...since they obey the laws....

This is the reason people need guns:

When the government cannot or will not protect the citizens.
Or when the government cannot or will not enforce gun control.

Mexico is a really terrible argument for you to be using.


It is the best place.....the government enforces gun control on normal people...while aiding violent criminals to prey on those same citizens.......unarmed people cannot defend themselves...as we seen with the thousands of dead Mexicans at the hands of drug cartels and their government allies.......

Mass murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide only happen to people who are unarmed........you nuts want us to be disarmed......
 
Not surprising, considering the Mexican government is not capable of enforcing their gun laws.


Did you miss this...

Criminals have abundant access to the means of violent coercion, and the will to use it. Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, have, practically speaking, no access.

Meanwhile, local officials can be bought by the criminals, which means that private citizens will then find themselves facing two heavily armed groups who are free to behave maliciously toward the general population with little fear of reprisals.
Good read. So the local officials, whose job it is to enforce gun control, are in the pockets of criminals and thus don't enforce gun control. That really helped strengthen my point thank you. :thup:


No twit....it shows that Mexico has strict gun control laws....so of course the criminals have easy access to guns and the normal, law abiding citizens do not...since they obey the laws....

This is the reason people need guns:

When the government cannot or will not protect the citizens.
Or when the government cannot or will not enforce gun control.

Mexico is a really terrible argument for you to be using.


The government enforces strict gun control....on normal Mexican citizens and they are completely successful at it.....gun control in Mexico works like a charm....law abiding Mexican citizens do not have guns......

And as we keep telling you anti gun nuts....that simply means that only cops and criminals will have guns....

Mexico demonstrates this perfectly.....twit.
 
Not surprising, considering the Mexican government is not capable of enforcing their gun laws.


Did you miss this...

Criminals have abundant access to the means of violent coercion, and the will to use it. Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, have, practically speaking, no access.

Meanwhile, local officials can be bought by the criminals, which means that private citizens will then find themselves facing two heavily armed groups who are free to behave maliciously toward the general population with little fear of reprisals.
Good read. So the local officials, whose job it is to enforce gun control, are in the pockets of criminals and thus don't enforce gun control. That really helped strengthen my point thank you. :thup:


No twit....it shows that Mexico has strict gun control laws....so of course the criminals have easy access to guns and the normal, law abiding citizens do not...since they obey the laws....

This is the reason people need guns:

When the government cannot or will not protect the citizens.
Or when the government cannot or will not enforce gun control.

Mexico is a really terrible argument for you to be using.


The government enforces strict gun control....on normal Mexican citizens and they are completely successful at it.....gun control in Mexico works like a charm....law abiding Mexican citizens do not have guns......

And as we keep telling you anti gun nuts....that simply means that only cops and criminals will have guns....

Mexico demonstrates this perfectly.....twit.
You dumb twit. You continue to say the Mexican government does not and cannot enforce gun control. You do realize you're saying that right?
 
Did you miss this...

Criminals have abundant access to the means of violent coercion, and the will to use it. Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, have, practically speaking, no access.

Meanwhile, local officials can be bought by the criminals, which means that private citizens will then find themselves facing two heavily armed groups who are free to behave maliciously toward the general population with little fear of reprisals.
Good read. So the local officials, whose job it is to enforce gun control, are in the pockets of criminals and thus don't enforce gun control. That really helped strengthen my point thank you. :thup:


No twit....it shows that Mexico has strict gun control laws....so of course the criminals have easy access to guns and the normal, law abiding citizens do not...since they obey the laws....

This is the reason people need guns:

When the government cannot or will not protect the citizens.
Or when the government cannot or will not enforce gun control.

Mexico is a really terrible argument for you to be using.


The government enforces strict gun control....on normal Mexican citizens and they are completely successful at it.....gun control in Mexico works like a charm....law abiding Mexican citizens do not have guns......

And as we keep telling you anti gun nuts....that simply means that only cops and criminals will have guns....

Mexico demonstrates this perfectly.....twit.
You dumb twit. You continue to say the Mexican government does not and cannot enforce gun control. You do realize you're saying that right?


They enforce gun control on law abiding citizens.....they cannot enforce gun control on the criminals...that is what we have been telling you for years and years and Mexico proves it.....
 
Good read. So the local officials, whose job it is to enforce gun control, are in the pockets of criminals and thus don't enforce gun control. That really helped strengthen my point thank you. :thup:


No twit....it shows that Mexico has strict gun control laws....so of course the criminals have easy access to guns and the normal, law abiding citizens do not...since they obey the laws....

This is the reason people need guns:

When the government cannot or will not protect the citizens.
Or when the government cannot or will not enforce gun control.

Mexico is a really terrible argument for you to be using.


The government enforces strict gun control....on normal Mexican citizens and they are completely successful at it.....gun control in Mexico works like a charm....law abiding Mexican citizens do not have guns......

And as we keep telling you anti gun nuts....that simply means that only cops and criminals will have guns....

Mexico demonstrates this perfectly.....twit.
You dumb twit. You continue to say the Mexican government does not and cannot enforce gun control. You do realize you're saying that right?


They enforce gun control on law abiding citizens.....they cannot enforce gun control on the criminals...that is what we have been telling you for years and years and Mexico proves it.....
Yes in a country where the government cannot enforce gun control, gun control does not work. Man square one is great isn't it?
 
No twit....it shows that Mexico has strict gun control laws....so of course the criminals have easy access to guns and the normal, law abiding citizens do not...since they obey the laws....

This is the reason people need guns:

When the government cannot or will not protect the citizens.
Or when the government cannot or will not enforce gun control.

Mexico is a really terrible argument for you to be using.


The government enforces strict gun control....on normal Mexican citizens and they are completely successful at it.....gun control in Mexico works like a charm....law abiding Mexican citizens do not have guns......

And as we keep telling you anti gun nuts....that simply means that only cops and criminals will have guns....

Mexico demonstrates this perfectly.....twit.
You dumb twit. You continue to say the Mexican government does not and cannot enforce gun control. You do realize you're saying that right?


They enforce gun control on law abiding citizens.....they cannot enforce gun control on the criminals...that is what we have been telling you for years and years and Mexico proves it.....
Yes in a country where the government cannot enforce gun control, gun control does not work. Man square one is great isn't it?


What part of the truth, the fact and the reality that normal, law abiding Mexicans cannot buy or own guns and this is enforced by the government law enforcement agencies........do you not understand. The normal Mexicans obey the gun control laws...so the gun control laws work as intended, they keep guns out of the hands of the law abiding people....

Gun laws around the world do not stop criminals from getting guns, not in Britain, France, Japan or Australia...the big four of the anti gunner heaven.......
 
Or when the government cannot or will not enforce gun control.

Mexico is a really terrible argument for you to be using.


The government enforces strict gun control....on normal Mexican citizens and they are completely successful at it.....gun control in Mexico works like a charm....law abiding Mexican citizens do not have guns......

And as we keep telling you anti gun nuts....that simply means that only cops and criminals will have guns....

Mexico demonstrates this perfectly.....twit.
You dumb twit. You continue to say the Mexican government does not and cannot enforce gun control. You do realize you're saying that right?


They enforce gun control on law abiding citizens.....they cannot enforce gun control on the criminals...that is what we have been telling you for years and years and Mexico proves it.....
Yes in a country where the government cannot enforce gun control, gun control does not work. Man square one is great isn't it?


What part of the truth, the fact and the reality that normal, law abiding Mexicans cannot buy or own guns and this is enforced by the government law enforcement agencies........do you not understand. The normal Mexicans obey the gun control laws...so the gun control laws work as intended, they keep guns out of the hands of the law abiding people....

Gun laws around the world do not stop criminals from getting guns, not in Britain, France, Japan or Australia...the big four of the anti gunner heaven.......
All four of the countries you mention have a fraction the number of homicide and gun crime rates as the U.S. Because it is harder for their criminals to get guns.

Mexico is in the middle of a bloody drug war. The government cannot enforce gun control there. You admitted they even help criminals to get guns. If Mexico was stable, and not terrorized by drug cartels, the government could do something about gun crime.
 

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